The Realignment Options from the Pac-6 and Mountain West Perspective.

[coloradocat]

Rules are hard to follow but...
1) For NCAA post-season basketball, a conference has to have 7 core institutions.
2) For Football, the magic number seems to be 8.
3) So the MWC needs only one full-time BB and FB member.

However, as others have pointed out, 8 members makes scheduling difficult and also would make the MWC the smallest FBS conference except for the PeeWee-12 which is also struggling to make grade.

News was very quiet on 25 September except the late breaking news that UNLV and Air Force will stay in the Mountain West as reported and some shadow boxing on the Pac-12 lawsuit. I would say it is at least probable that the MWC will counter sue.

As far as the 8th member for each conference.....
Pac-12 - 1) could still be UNLV; 2) could be another MWC school; 3) could be a Conf-USA school. But it won't be an FCS school. Not a 1% chance

MWC - 1) Could be New Mexico State; 2) Could be Utep; 3) Could be some other dredged up team from C-USA or AAC, 4) Could But i think it is highly unlikely they will go after FCS elite - MSU, UM, NDSU, SDSU.....

Also, Sac State has an entire feasibility study on moving up to FBS and have a full committee pushing it and making lots of noise - even to join the Pac-12! Maybe so, large market but "The Nest" is the worst college basketball stadium in the US, most high schools have a better gym. But this points to you don't have to wait for an invite. Your school and its boosters can probe, politic, pressure, etc to be in the conversation. Seems like a leap but maybe for the 8th school, the MWC takes Sac State rather than retreads like New Mexico State. Just a thought.

I agree with everything but would add a fourth unofficial rule that focuses on the reason everything is happening in the first place: 8 teams is enough to remain an official conference but not enough for a TV contract.

This is especially true for the PAC and MWC. The PAC is just the two teams that nobody wanted for TV market reasons and MWC teams that already don't get much TV money (plus Gonzaga which probably pulls in decent basketball money but is a zero for football). The MWC lost their only real football draw (BSU) and the other bigger market teams. It's not going to matter which one or two teams the conferences add, they're not getting much TV money.

The idea situation would have been for the PAC to absorb the entire MWC. The only reason I can think of for that not happening is that the MWC administrators figured they'd be out of a job so they convinced all the schools to shut that conversation down. Maybe the PAC wouldn't take the bottom one or two schools but that wouldn't have been enough of a reason to blow up a merger. Now, instead of one average conference we have two incomplete below average conferences. They both deserve terrible TV deals for not being able to figure out how to come together.

[CodyCat]

I'd be interesting to know if any conferences have reached out to MSU about the possibility of MSU joining that conference.

[Cataholic]

Adding to the total disgust factor, the PAC 12 is trying to avoid paying the fee they agreed to their scheduling agreement with the Mountain West.

https://www.on3.com/news/mountain-west- ... penalties/

I have to question if the Pac 12 decision makers have any idea what they are doing. No wonder the conference fell apart.

their argument was the scheduling contract amounted to extortion.

PAC 12 signed the agreement. They have zero basis to back out of the promise. I expect MWC will get their fee in full.

[BleedingBLue]

As of this morning it sounds like Texas State is pitching itself to the Pac 7-12, MWC and AAC.

[MSU01]

Sac State announced today they plan to build a brand new 25,000 seat stadium on the site of their current one. Not sure from the wording how far along they are in terms of securing the funding for it, but this looks like they want to be in FBS sooner rather than later. Hopefully it goes better for them than EWU's Gateway Project.

https://hornetsports.com/news/2024/9/26 ... adium.aspx

[CodyCat]

Sac State announced today they plan to build a brand new 25,000 seat stadium on the site of their current one. Not sure from the wording how far along they are in terms of securing the funding for it, but this looks like they want to be in FBS sooner rather than later. Hopefully it goes better for them than EWU's Gateway Project.

https://hornetsports.com/news/2024/9/26 ... adium.aspx

I think you are right. But really, it just puts them in the conversation of the arms race in the Big Sky.

[cats2506]

Sac State announced today they plan to build a brand new 25,000 seat stadium on the site of their current one. Not sure from the wording how far along they are in terms of securing the funding for it, but this looks like they want to be in FBS sooner rather than later. Hopefully it goes better for them than EWU's Gateway Project.

https://hornetsports.com/news/2024/9/26 ... adium.aspx

Their current stadium seats 21,000, so only adding 4000 seats

Last years attendance was 13,000 average

What they are really saying is that if the MW takes them they will rebuild it without the track so it doesn't look so high schoolish

[coloradocat]

The red fielders float stadium upgrades again:

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2024/ ... on-of-roo/

[Utcatsfan]

Sac State announced today they plan to build a brand new 25,000 seat stadium on the site of their current one. Not sure from the wording how far along they are in terms of securing the funding for it, but this looks like they want to be in FBS sooner rather than later. Hopefully it goes better for them than EWU's Gateway Project.

https://hornetsports.com/news/2024/9/26 ... adium.aspx

If we get left behind again I'm going to be quite frustrated and annoyed, it's ridiculous that we give a damn about Football and support it as much as we do and other schools with less move up and water down FCS even more. Both us and UM need to wake up and grow a pair, I'll support the team no matter what but there is now way we couldn't figure out how to move up, we should not be content with games vs Mercyhurst, Random Pioneer teams when we could be playing Nevada and Wyoming every year.

[tetoncat]

Sac State announced today they plan to build a brand new 25,000 seat stadium on the site of their current one. Not sure from the wording how far along they are in terms of securing the funding for it, but this looks like they want to be in FBS sooner rather than later. Hopefully it goes better for them than EWU's Gateway Project.

https://hornetsports.com/news/2024/9/26 ... adium.aspx

If we get left behind again I'm going to be quite frustrated and annoyed, it's ridiculous that we give a damn about Football and support it as much as we do and other schools with less move up and water down FCS even more. Both us and UM need to wake up and grow a pair, I'll support the team no matter what but there is now way we couldn't figure out how to move up, we should not be content with games vs Mercyhurst, Random Pioneer teams when we could be playing Nevada and Wyoming every year.

It isn't entirely schools decision. Even if they want to move up have to get an invite. Conferences keep proving they don't care about fan support, they don't care about competitiveness, it is all about who gives them the best chance for an increased share of media dollars.

[Utcatsfan]

Mountain West looking at the Central Time Zone with Toledo and NIU as Football only, rumors are NDSU and SDSU might be backup options for the MAC to backfill or considered for more CTZ MWC teams. Texas State in play as a Full Member

[CalgaryCat]

Sac State announced today they plan to build a brand new 25,000 seat stadium on the site of their current one. Not sure from the wording how far along they are in terms of securing the funding for it, but this looks like they want to be in FBS sooner rather than later. Hopefully it goes better for them than EWU's Gateway Project.

https://hornetsports.com/news/2024/9/26 ... adium.aspx

If we get left behind again I'm going to be quite frustrated and annoyed, it's ridiculous that we give a damn about Football and support it as much as we do and other schools with less move up and water down FCS even more. Both us and UM need to wake up and grow a pair, I'll support the team no matter what but there is now way we couldn't figure out how to move up, we should not be content with games vs Mercyhurst, Random Pioneer teams when we could be playing Nevada and Wyoming every year.

It isn't entirely schools decision. Even if they want to move up have to get an invite. Conferences keep proving they don't care about fan support, they don't care about competitiveness, it is all about who gives them the best chance for an increased share of media dollars.

Which is a bit ridiculous in the current environment. The MW is going to get scraps in their next TV deal. They’ll need to get a lot more money from tickets and fans. Sac State isn’t bringing that.

[onceacat]

Sac State announced today they plan to build a brand new 25,000 seat stadium on the site of their current one. Not sure from the wording how far along they are in terms of securing the funding for it, but this looks like they want to be in FBS sooner rather than later. Hopefully it goes better for them than EWU's Gateway Project.

https://hornetsports.com/news/2024/9/26 ... adium.aspx

If we get left behind again I'm going to be quite frustrated and annoyed, it's ridiculous that we give a damn about Football and support it as much as we do and other schools with less move up and water down FCS even more. Both us and UM need to wake up and grow a pair, I'll support the team no matter what but there is now way we couldn't figure out how to move up, we should not be content with games vs Mercyhurst, Random Pioneer teams when we could be playing Nevada and Wyoming every year.

It isn't entirely schools decision. Even if they want to move up have to get an invite. Conferences keep proving they don't care about fan support, they don't care about competitiveness, it is all about who gives them the best chance for an increased share of media dollars.

I think its a bit odd to suggest that Sam Houston and Missouri State (or Western Kentuck or Liberty or Coastal Carolina or Delaware or Idaho) somehow are better for generating media dollars.

I'd be dollars to donuts those schools spent several years working the ADs & conferences to get an invite. You have to work to get invited.

[tetoncat]

Sac State announced today they plan to build a brand new 25,000 seat stadium on the site of their current one. Not sure from the wording how far along they are in terms of securing the funding for it, but this looks like they want to be in FBS sooner rather than later. Hopefully it goes better for them than EWU's Gateway Project.

https://hornetsports.com/news/2024/9/26 ... adium.aspx

If we get left behind again I'm going to be quite frustrated and annoyed, it's ridiculous that we give a damn about Football and support it as much as we do and other schools with less move up and water down FCS even more. Both us and UM need to wake up and grow a pair, I'll support the team no matter what but there is now way we couldn't figure out how to move up, we should not be content with games vs Mercyhurst, Random Pioneer teams when we could be playing Nevada and Wyoming every year.

It isn't entirely schools decision. Even if they want to move up have to get an invite. Conferences keep proving they don't care about fan support, they don't care about competitiveness, it is all about who gives them the best chance for an increased share of media dollars.

I think its a bit odd to suggest that Sam Houston and Missouri State (or Western Kentuck or Liberty or Coastal Carolina or Delaware or Idaho) somehow are better for generating media dollars.

I'd be dollars to donuts those schools spent several years working the ADs & conferences to get an invite. You have to work to get invited.

Possibly but that still isn't deciding factor in my opinion. I could be completely wrong. So do you believe YM, MSU, SDSU, NDSU ADs and Prezidents have all been doing that much less to not get invites over teams such as you listed.

[onceacat]

Sac State announced today they plan to build a brand new 25,000 seat stadium on the site of their current one. Not sure from the wording how far along they are in terms of securing the funding for it, but this looks like they want to be in FBS sooner rather than later. Hopefully it goes better for them than EWU's Gateway Project.

https://hornetsports.com/news/2024/9/26 ... adium.aspx

If we get left behind again I'm going to be quite frustrated and annoyed, it's ridiculous that we give a damn about Football and support it as much as we do and other schools with less move up and water down FCS even more. Both us and UM need to wake up and grow a pair, I'll support the team no matter what but there is now way we couldn't figure out how to move up, we should not be content with games vs Mercyhurst, Random Pioneer teams when we could be playing Nevada and Wyoming every year.

It isn't entirely schools decision. Even if they want to move up have to get an invite. Conferences keep proving they don't care about fan support, they don't care about competitiveness, it is all about who gives them the best chance for an increased share of media dollars.

I think its a bit odd to suggest that Sam Houston and Missouri State (or Western Kentuck or Liberty or Coastal Carolina or Delaware or Idaho) somehow are better for generating media dollars.

I'd be dollars to donuts those schools spent several years working the ADs & conferences to get an invite. You have to work to get invited.

Possibly but that still isn't deciding factor in my opinion. I could be completely wrong. So do you believe YM, MSU, SDSU, NDSU ADs and Prezidents have all been doing that much less to not get invites over teams such as you listed.

Absolutely. I don't know what the status is for the DSUs, but any UM/MSU decision 1) needs to be approved by the regents and 2) is a package deal with the other. It's pretty embarrassing for a conference to make an invite but get turned down. (Lots of examples this week!)

When the Pac imploded last year, it was all very well choreographed...the 4 corners schools left on the same day; UCLA & USC left together; Washington & Oregon left together. Theres a ton of behind the scenes negotiating to make that happen...like the old time smoke filled rooms in politics.

So, in order for UM & MSU to move, 1) both schools need to be ready to go at the same time-which requires buy in from coaches, boosters, donors, and the administration of both schools 2) the BOR needs to be lobbied, cajoled, bullied, and whatever else into assurances that the decision will be approved by politicians whose political preferences may or may not line up with the people in group #1 and, then, finally, when those things are in place, THEN the schools looking to move let it be known over drinks at a conference or via friends of friends that they would be interested in an invite.

Its 100% a political move & its orders of magnitude more complicated when it requires BOR approval.

[Catprint]

I will admit it is a total cluster.

* MWC going after two MAC schools - NIU and Toledo - why? Football only?
* Teams from the Mac leave a know entity for maybe more; probably less money after travel costs.
* DSU's go to MAC for Football only leaving MSU/UM bridesmaids.
* Sac State going to raise 100's of millions of dollars to join what or who? That Pac7 going to take them? Not a chance.
* UNLV stays in the MWC because they are promised 2-3 shares? Why would other schools go along with this?

It sure seems no one is moving out of the Big Sky. As suggested a number of times, PAC-12 and MWC don't want to stoop so low to take in an FCS school. Even though it is no issue with Conference FCS; I mean USA. Almost half of C-USA is made up of recent FCS schools. But then so is the Sun Belt if you only go back 5-10 years.

Frankly it is all about regionality; TV market and dollars. It still might take weeks to settle out. I would like nothing more than both conferences to get underwhelming TV deals where the movers all regret their decisions. Poetic Justice. But the money pot with TV networks seems to be bottomless. They ante up more and more so we can watch on Thursday Night Toledo playing Akron.... hmm. Maybe we are better to just stay put. DSUs lose and we can be national champion every other year!!

[tetoncat]

I think I would have been okay going to a strong conference. Joining one that is all ex FCS schools or watered down MWC for a little more money, higher expenses, and best season will be a Conference Title is not appealing. Could help basketball but people forget some of these multi bid conferences will not be after realignment. MWC built to that but if historical good teams are gone it will be back to 1 bid like Big Sky. I just dont see benefit for any sports.

[Prodigal Cat]

I will admit it is a total cluster.

* MWC going after two MAC schools - NIU and Toledo - why? Football only?
* Teams from the Mac leave a know entity for maybe more; probably less money after travel costs.
* DSU's go to MAC for Football only leaving MSU/UM bridesmaids.
* Sac State going to raise 100's of millions of dollars to join what or who? That Pac7 going to take them? Not a chance.
* UNLV stays in the MWC because they are promised 2-3 shares? Why would other schools go along with this?

It sure seems no one is moving out of the Big Sky. As suggested a number of times, PAC-12 and MWC don't want to stoop so low to take in an FCS school. Even though it is no issue with Conference FCS; I mean USA. Almost half of C-USA is made up of recent FCS schools. But then so is the Sun Belt if you only go back 5-10 years.

Frankly it is all about regionality; TV market and dollars. It still might take weeks to settle out. I would like nothing more than both conferences to get underwhelming TV deals where the movers all regret their decisions. Poetic Justice. But the money pot with TV networks seems to be bottomless. They ante up more and more so we can watch on Thursday Night Toledo playing Akron.... hmm. Maybe we are better to just stay put. DSUs lose and we can be national champion every other year!!

I think you contradict yourself here. First you say no conference is willing to stoop to take FCS schools but then name 2 that have taken them. Further I would add the Sun Belt is seen as a very good G5 conference pretty much all due to the former FCS powers they have in the conference now. I find it hard to believe that a conference like the MWC wouldn't take that into consideration. Ultimately revenue or potential revenue trumps all and that's what holds back the Montana's and Dakota's, not because they are FCS.

I also think that is a myopic view for commissioners and TV execs but what do i know. A very significant reason Idaho failed at the FBS level was that the major markets they have in their area (Boise, Spokane) are tied to other FBS schools. The same could be said for teams like Sam Houston or Missouri St. There are large markets nearby but none of them care about those schools. However the entirety of the Montana market does care and doesn't have anything else to compete with their programs. They would probably get better TV ratings than a SHSU or North Texas. Same for NDSU with Fargo, all of North Dakota and a large portion of Minnesota partially because the Gophers are terrible and follow the Bison instead. It's not though for SDSU. They are more like Idaho with major programs nearby. You go to Sioux Falls and you'll see a lot of Iowa or Nebraska gear.

[tetoncat]

I will admit it is a total cluster.

* MWC going after two MAC schools - NIU and Toledo - why? Football only?
* Teams from the Mac leave a know entity for maybe more; probably less money after travel costs.
* DSU's go to MAC for Football only leaving MSU/UM bridesmaids.
* Sac State going to raise 100's of millions of dollars to join what or who? That Pac7 going to take them? Not a chance.
* UNLV stays in the MWC because they are promised 2-3 shares? Why would other schools go along with this?

It sure seems no one is moving out of the Big Sky. As suggested a number of times, PAC-12 and MWC don't want to stoop so low to take in an FCS school. Even though it is no issue with Conference FCS; I mean USA. Almost half of C-USA is made up of recent FCS schools. But then so is the Sun Belt if you only go back 5-10 years.

Frankly it is all about regionality; TV market and dollars. It still might take weeks to settle out. I would like nothing more than both conferences to get underwhelming TV deals where the movers all regret their decisions. Poetic Justice. But the money pot with TV networks seems to be bottomless. They ante up more and more so we can watch on Thursday Night Toledo playing Akron.... hmm. Maybe we are better to just stay put. DSUs lose and we can be national champion every other year!!

I think you contradict yourself here. First you say no conference is willing to stoop to take FCS schools but then name 2 that have taken them. Further I would add the Sun Belt is seen as a very good G5 conference pretty much all due to the former FCS powers they have in the conference now. I find it hard to believe that a conference like the MWC wouldn't take that into consideration. Ultimately revenue or potential revenue trumps all and that's what holds back the Montana's and Dakota's, not because they are FCS.

I also think that is a myopic view for commissioners and TV execs but what do i know. A very significant reason Idaho failed at the FBS level was that the major markets they have in their area (Boise, Spokane) are tied to other FBS schools. The same could be said for teams like Sam Houston or Missouri St. There are large markets nearby but none of them care about those schools. However the entirety of the Montana market does care and doesn't have anything else to compete with their programs. They would probably get better TV ratings than a SHSU or North Texas. Same for NDSU with Fargo, all of North Dakota and a large portion of Minnesota partially because the Gophers are terrible and follow the Bison instead. It's not though for SDSU. They are more like Idaho with major programs nearby. You go to Sioux Falls and you'll see a lot of Iowa or Nebraska gear.

Agree with this. I also think for most MT people, love or hate the rival if Cats or Griz are on TV they watch either of them.

[Norsky19]

If Bozeman became a TV market, and we were invited up, would we be happy with that? I would rather Bozeman and Montana as a whole remain a non TV market. Football wise it would be fun, but that means we've become Spokane sized. I would rather us stay small and even play down. We gotta live here after all......