Bandwagon

grzh8r · Post by **grzh8r** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:56 pm

Eastcoastgriz wrote: Nobody has a bigger percentage of bandwagon fans than the cats. Look at the jump in attendance for their games over the last 6 or 7 years.

MSU = Bandwagon Central

Hell... why don't we keep going back a hundred years or so? I imagine UM had maybe a 100 fans or so in 1897, now there's 25,000.

Assuming MSU had the same amount of fans in days of old, and now average 14000K or so, now who's bandwagon central? Geez, it's so easy to skew statistics when you randomly pull numbers out of the air... you must be a politician?

PapaG · Post by **PapaG** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:00 pm

crazycat wrote:It’s easier to define what isn’t a bandwagon fan and there are only three ways to not be one:

1) You aren’t a bandwagon fan if you decided before you got out of high school that you’re a fan.

2) You aren’t a bandwagon fan if, even though you may have been a fan of another school, you became a fan of the college you went to.

3) I exception can be made in rare cases and that’s if you have a close family member brother, dad, or son that gets a scholarship to a different school and you root for blood. This isn’t a real solid excuse, but I let it slide. I think you should still root for YOUR school.

Anything else is a bandwagon fan.

I grew up a Bobcat fan (even though my Dad and Grandfather went to UM) in Billings. I have an uncle who played for the 'Cats in b-ball and he spoiled me with MSU gear as a kid.

I then went to UM for my first year of college and yes, I went to Griz games and wanted them to win. I suppose I was a bandwagon fan at the time, but my real motivation for Missoula was to get as far away from Billings and the folks that money would allow. Then, my folks moved to Missoula, so I hit the road for where I was destined to be...MSU. I'll admit to going to many Griz games during my MSU days. Almost every playoff game, and I was rooting hard for the Griz.

Yet here is what made me a DIEHARD Bobcat fan. I graduated from MSU. Yep, that has connected me to MSU like no sweatshirt as a kid, like no UM game as a student, like no Bobcat victory over Idaho ever could.

So while I won't call out those who are bandwagon fans, I'll go on the record and say that anyone with a degree from either school certainly IS NOT a bandwagon fan. Ever.

Eastcoastgriz · Post by **Eastcoastgriz** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:46 pm

grzh8r wrote:
Eastcoastgriz wrote: Nobody has a bigger percentage of bandwagon fans than the cats. Look at the jump in attendance for their games over the last 6 or 7 years.

MSU = Bandwagon Central
Hell... why don't we keep going back a hundred years or so? I imagine UM had maybe a 100 fans or so in 1897, now there's 25,000.

Assuming MSU had the same amount of fans in days of old, and now average 14000K or so, now who's bandwagon central? Geez, it's so easy to skew statistics when you randomly pull numbers out of the air... you must be a politician?

What?? Isn't a bandwagon fan someone who has jump on to a program that’s gotten better? What was the cat average attendance say in 1999 or 2000? What is it now? What is the percentage increase?

Beyond that, it's not really fair to compare to the GRIZ program. The GRIZ have more great fans than we have been able to accommodate in the Best Damn Stadium in all of IAA. We have done a poor job supplying the number a seats needed to house all our fans. The 4000 seats being added in the next year or so will be sold out before they are built and we will need to start planning the next expansion. These are not bandwagon fans; these are fans that have not had the opportunity to buy seats.

bobcatmaniac · Post by **bobcatmaniac** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:54 pm

Exactly how great were the fizz bandwagoners when the student body was considering doing away with the football program in the 1970's???? Cats NEVER thought of doing that...

bobcatmaniac · Post by **bobcatmaniac** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:59 pm

Grizlaw wrote:Just to have some fun with the logic for a moment...

I happen to have grown up in Montana, and attended UM, but let's pretend I didn't. Let's pretend that I grew up in NY, did all my schooling on the east coast, and moved to Montana for a job....in, say, 1992. And the job is in Butte, just to make it neutral.

Now, during the 1990s, the Griz were very good, and the Cats were, uh, not very good. If I became a Griz fan at that time, am I automatically a bandwagon fan? Or is it possible that I started liking the Griz for other reasons (like the fact that their offense was exciting to watch, or that I liked Don Read, or whatever)? Is it assumed that everyone who starts liking a team when they're good likes them just because they're good?

Sorry, GL, but Butte is and never will be "neutral" The montana sub-standard consistantly is pro-friz.

GrizinWashington · Post by **GrizinWashington** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:41 pm

grzh8r wrote:
Eastcoastgriz wrote: Nobody has a bigger percentage of bandwagon fans than the cats. Look at the jump in attendance for their games over the last 6 or 7 years.

MSU = Bandwagon Central
Hell... why don't we keep going back a hundred years or so? I imagine UM had maybe a 100 fans or so in 1897, now there's 25,000.

Assuming MSU had the same amount of fans in days of old, and now average 14000K or so, now who's bandwagon central? Geez, it's so easy to skew statistics when you randomly pull numbers out of the air... you must be a politician?

This is PRECISELY why it is such a ridiculous argument for cat fans to claim that Griz fans are bandwagoners. They only are if cat fans apply whatever time period they feel is appropriate to make their argument. It's an inane, baseless attempt at smack, and perhaps we could all just agree to let it die.

Please???

JahGriz · Post by **JahGriz** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:46 pm

I don't know if this has been mentioned, as I couldn't read thru this thread, but what I don't understand is how cat fans continue to act as if the Griz are the only team with bandwagon fans, as if they don't have an equal proportion of bandwagoneers as the Griz. Especially these days while they are winning more and putting a better product on the field.

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:21 pm

This is more less for the author of this thread and his fellow fan eastcoastgriz.

Why do you guys care whether we call a huge percentage of griz fans bandwagon? Honestly, if you don't consider yourself as such (then again, I can't imagine any bandwagon fan would ever acknowledge they were as such), then why create a thread?

How full was the prior stadium before sugar daddy Washington came into the picture? How about the years leading up to about 1994. How do you compare those late 80's/early 90's attendances to just before the 1995 NC season?

Many griz fans repeatedly say that the griz fan base is considerably larger than the fanbase of MSU. When you consider that both schools have about 12000 students on any given year and you would think each school also has a similar amount who obtain a degree each year, one would think that the fanbases would be similar if there was a means to actually quantify it. Having a more successful team obviously increases the size of a fanbase. In this case, with similar school populations and thus very similar #'s of alumni/alumnae, there is a huge disparity if you take into consideration the turnout each week (24K vs 13-14K).

Are all of those extra 10,000+ griz fans (when compared to the 13-14K at MSU) the type who sat through the lesser times at Dornblaser or did they conveniently start showing up around the time when Dave Dickenson became a common household name in the state of Montana? I think that could answer the question of having a greater amount of bandwagon fans.

Just my .02.

anacondagriz · Post by **anacondagriz** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:28 pm

lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:
How full was the prior stadium before sugar daddy Washington came into the picture? How about the years leading up to about 1994. How do you compare those late 80's/early 90's attendances to just before the 1995 NC season?

How about this question. How come so many Bobcat fans seem genuinely bitter that Denny Washington donated money to help build the Wa-Griz?

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:34 pm

anacondagriz wrote:
lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:
How full was the prior stadium before sugar daddy Washington came into the picture? How about the years leading up to about 1994. How do you compare those late 80's/early 90's attendances to just before the 1995 NC season?

How about this question. How come so many Bobcat fans seem genuinely bitter that Denny Washington donated money to help build the Wa-Griz?

Quit whining about how Cat fans construe a gift from a guy that really had no affiliation with the university.

Someone mentioned that Cat fans simply call a large # of griz fans bandwagon fans simply because it pisses them off. I think it serves as a similar concept when we use the term sugar daddy for your football program's main benefactor.

I call DW your school's sugar daddy because it's true and when it's used in that context, it clearly makes griz fans upset at times.

What's it matter to you if Cat fans are bitter or not? He's your football team's sugar daddy. If that statement makes you think we're all bitter, then by all means, go on thinking that way.

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:41 pm

lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:Why do you guys care whether we call a huge percentage of griz fans bandwagon? Honestly, if you don't consider yourself as such (then again, I can't imagine any bandwagon fan would ever acknowledge they were as such), then why create a thread?

Well...not to be a smartass, but you could pretty much say that about any piece of smack talk, right?

To give an equivalent example: why does it bother Cat fans when Griz fans say that Cat fans only care about one game per year? After all, if you know that you care about more than that, then why start threads to talk about it?

I guess to me, the answer is that none of this matters in any real way, but it's fun, so we keep doing it. Some people take it too seriously, which is too bad; it should all be in good fun.

So please, keep the "bandwagon" and "sugar daddy" posts coming; they don't bother me personally, but the rivalry wouldn't be much fun otherwise.

--GL

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:51 pm

Grizlaw wrote:
lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:Why do you guys care whether we call a huge percentage of griz fans bandwagon? Honestly, if you don't consider yourself as such (then again, I can't imagine any bandwagon fan would ever acknowledge they were as such), then why create a thread?

Well...not to be a smartass, but you could pretty much say that about any piece of smack talk, right?

To give an equivalent example: why does it bother Cat fans when Griz fans say that Cat fans only care about one game per year? After all, if you know that you care about more than that, then why start threads to talk about it?

I guess to me, the answer is that none of this matters in any real way, but it's fun, so we keep doing it. Some people take it too seriously, which is too bad; it should all be in good fun.

So please, keep the "bandwagon" and "sugar daddy" posts coming; they don't bother me personally, but the rivalry wouldn't be much fun otherwise.

--GL

Please tell me how that was an "equivalent" example.

How can you deny the bandwagon "theory" when you consider that both MSU and um have similar enrollments and what is likely a very similar number of graduates? You see proof of that every Saturday at WA-Griz. I guarantee that MSU couldn't fill 24K in Bozeman at this point in time especially when you consider the success attained in Missoula vs what has transpired in Bozeman over the past 15-20 years. That disparity in attendance leads me to believe that there aren't 10K more fans in Missoula who have a vested interest in the university of montana outside of what happens on the gridiron. There are 3 reasons......1995, 2001, and Sugar Daddy Washington. He built and many more came.

Outside of the message board banter and keeping in mind your considerable distance from Montana, I would like you to genuinely show me some legitimate reasoning why you think all Cat fans are bothered when griz fans say we only care about one game a year.

GrizinWashington · Post by **GrizinWashington** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:04 pm

Loyal, by your reasoning, there should always be and have been at least 12,000 fans at MSU games. Clearly that wasn't the case a few years back. Hell, it hasn't even been the case this YEAR (I watched the UCD game. I know what the announced attendance was, but they must have been counting students in the dorms).

As I've said earlier, it's a ridiculous, inane attempt at smack. And because of that, it doesn't bother me in the least, which is what prompted my question to begin with. I guess I just expected you guys to come up with something that DOES bother Griz fans. Just thought you were better than that.

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:26 am

GrizinWashington wrote:Loyal, by your reasoning, there should always be and have been at least 12,000 fans at MSU games. Clearly that wasn't the case a few years back. Hell, it hasn't even been the case this YEAR (I watched the UCD game. I know what the announced attendance was, but they must have been counting students in the dorms).

As I've said earlier, it's a ridiculous, inane attempt at smack. And because of that, it doesn't bother me in the least, which is what prompted my question to begin with. I guess I just expected you guys to come up with something that DOES bother Griz fans. Just thought you were better than that.

"A ridiculous, inane attempt at smack."

Signed,

GrizInWashington, the author of this thread who is trying to convince us that it doesn't bother him in the least.

If it didn't bother you, why DID you initiate a thread (on the MSU board, at that) about the very topic you seem to be so "indifferent" to?

You're quite the contradiction.....

I gave you my reasoning and I believe my points are pretty spot on and they're based on legitimate observations as well as more than a few trips to Wa-Griz stadium.

tampa_griz · Post by **tampa_griz** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:40 am

lifeloyalsigmsu wrote: I think it serves as a similar concept when we use the term sugar daddy for your football program's main benefactor.

I call DW your school's sugar daddy because it's true and when it's used in that context, it clearly makes griz fans upset at times.

You're right. We've been so upset about the predicament DW's donation has put our program in. A friggin' disaster that idea was building that stadium. Let's trade facilities.

He's a Missoula native who continues to live there and his wife is an alum. It's too bad for MSU that those simple facts aren't reversed in favor of MSU. Get over it.

liqud360 · Post by **liqud360** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:13 am

So much for being a Raider fan...How about them Bears!

Eastcoastgriz · Post by **Eastcoastgriz** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:19 am

lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:
anacondagriz wrote:
lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:
How full was the prior stadium before sugar daddy Washington came into the picture? How about the years leading up to about 1994. How do you compare those late 80's/early 90's attendances to just before the 1995 NC season?

How about this question. How come so many Bobcat fans seem genuinely bitter that Denny Washington donated money to help build the Wa-Griz?
Quit whining about how Cat fans construe a gift from a guy that really had no affiliation with the university.

His wife is graduate. I think that gives him a little affiliation with the university.

liqud360 · Post by **liqud360** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:26 am

IMO Cat/Griz fans are like Formula1/Nascar fans. I've noticed that the Cat fans are emotionally controled, have more class, and are all around better people. This is the same for Formula1 fans. A typical Griz fan, is out of control, says whatever they wish, and are red neck hillbillies. This is typical for a Nascar fan. Sort of funny how snotty and willing to fight over Cat vs. Griz some of the out of state, have no affiliation, just moved here and everybody likes a winner, some bandwagon Griz fans can be. I guess thats my BEEF with a griz bandwagoner.

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:52 am

lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:Please tell me how that was an "equivalent" example.

How can you deny the bandwagon "theory" when you consider that both MSU and um have similar enrollments and what is likely a very similar number of graduates? You see proof of that every Saturday at WA-Griz. I guarantee that MSU couldn't fill 24K in Bozeman at this point in time especially when you consider the success attained in Missoula vs what has transpired in Bozeman over the past 15-20 years. That disparity in attendance leads me to believe that there aren't 10K more fans in Missoula who have a vested interest in the university of montana outside of what happens on the gridiron. There are 3 reasons......1995, 2001, and Sugar Daddy Washington. He built and many more came.

Outside of the message board banter and keeping in mind your considerable distance from Montana, I would like you to genuinely show me some legitimate reasoning why you think all Cat fans are bothered when griz fans say we only care about one game a year.

Sig, I think you took this differently than I meant it. When I said the two were "equivalent," I didn't mean that the two things themselves were equivalent; I only meant that they are equivalent in the sense that your question could apply to both of them.

To clarify, you asked, in essence, "if the 'bandwagon fan' stuff doesn't bother you, then why bother posting about it?" My point was that you could ask that question about all smack talk -- we could just as easily ask "if the 'one game a year / a tie is a win / whatever other smack talk" doesn't bother you, then why post about it?"

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:54 am

liqud360 wrote:IMO Cat/Griz fans are like Formula1/Nascar fans. I've noticed that the Cat fans are emotionally controled, have more class, and are all around better people. This is the same for Formula1 fans. A typical Griz fan, is out of control, says whatever they wish, and are red neck hillbillies. This is typical for a Nascar fan.

I hate to break this to you, but the simple fact that you can differentiate between Formula1 and Nascar fans at all tends to indicate that you're not exactly free of "red neck hillbilly" status yourself.