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[catatac]

I think we watched different Bruggman’s play.

Yeah, he was pretty bad. Really, he's the only truly dud QB the Cats have had in over 2 decades. Rough seasons were 2008 (Iddins/Kempt/Desin platoon struggled) and the early part of 2016 until Choate gambled on a 17 y.o. true freshman Chris Murray. Aside from injuries to notable starters that influenced the outcomes of games and entire seasons (2012 SMU game STILL haunts me - oh what could have been with a healthy McGhee that season), the talent has usually been there. Even at backup QB.

I'm probably going back further than needed for this discussion, but look back at Lulay..... obviously one of the greatest Bobcats ever. Then I remember when he graduated we're all like, crap... this is gonna be rough. Then if memory serves, Cory Carpenter was the next in line, when we beat Colorado in the opener? Then I can't remember how well he did after that and if Denarius was after him or what.

[MSU01]

I think we watched different Bruggman’s play.

Yeah, he was pretty bad. Really, he's the only truly dud QB the Cats have had in over 2 decades. Rough seasons were 2008 (Iddins/Kempt/Desin platoon struggled) and the early part of 2016 until Choate gambled on a 17 y.o. true freshman Chris Murray. Aside from injuries to notable starters that influenced the outcomes of games and entire seasons (2012 SMU game STILL haunts me - oh what could have been with a healthy McGhee that season), the talent has usually been there. Even at backup QB.

I'm probably going back further than needed for this discussion, but look back at Lulay..... obviously one of the greatest Bobcats ever. Then I remember when he graduated we're all like, crap... this is gonna be rough. Then if memory serves, Cory Carpenter was the next in line, when we beat Colorado in the opener? Then I can't remember how well he did after that and if Denarius was after him or what.

Lulay graduated in 2005. In 2006 Cory Carpenter started the first six games and Jack Rolovich started the last 7. In 2007 Rolovich started 10 games and Carpenter started one. In 2008 the starters were Mark Iddins (3 games), Cody Kempt (7 games), and Mark Desin (2 games). 2009 was also Iddins (6 starts) and Kempt (5 starts) until Denarius became the starter as a redshirt freshman in 2010.

[TomCat88]

I think we watched different Bruggman’s play.

Yeah, he was pretty bad. Really, he's the only truly dud QB the Cats have had in over 2 decades. Rough seasons were 2008 (Iddins/Kempt/Desin platoon struggled) and the early part of 2016 until Choate gambled on a 17 y.o. true freshman Chris Murray. Aside from injuries to notable starters that influenced the outcomes of games and entire seasons (2012 SMU game STILL haunts me - oh what could have been with a healthy McGhee that season), the talent has usually been there. Even at backup QB.

Bruggman was on a bad team and didn’t have dynamic playmaking ability with his feet. I don’t think he sucked. I don’t think anyone that played the same style would’ve done any better.

[Hi-Line Bobcat]

Bruggman wasn’t the sh*t he was the sh*ts. Our group had a saying, “at least we have bruggy”, one may or may not have made a shirt with that on there, dark days for sure. Carpenter, iddins, and kempt were duds as well, if it wasn’t for D-Mac it was headed in the wrong direction.

[TomCat88]

I agree the other 3 were duds and I would agree Bruggman was a dud. But I don’t think he sucked. Everyone I talked to before the season said he was good. No one ever said that those other three were. Bruggman played on the second worst team at MSU since Solomonson departed.

[lutecat]

I couldn't stand when Iddins started. I dont know why they didn't play the better qb for the whole year. The eye test told you who was better.

[BLACKnBLUEnGOLD]

I was never president of his fan club either. He always threw short of the sticks.

He was definitely better than Bruggeman though

[BelligerentBobcat]

I think we watched different Bruggman’s play.

Yeah, he was pretty bad. Really, he's the only truly dud QB the Cats have had in over 2 decades. Rough seasons were 2008 (Iddins/Kempt/Desin platoon struggled) and the early part of 2016 until Choate gambled on a 17 y.o. true freshman Chris Murray. Aside from injuries to notable starters that influenced the outcomes of games and entire seasons (2012 SMU game STILL haunts me - oh what could have been with a healthy McGhee that season), the talent has usually been there. Even at backup QB.

Bruggman was on a bad team and didn’t have dynamic playmaking ability with his feet. I don’t think he sucked. I don’t think anyone that played the same style would’ve done any better.

He was a bad QB on a bad team. We don’t need to complicate this.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Anyone else surprised by the lack of portal signings so far this spring?

I know they have some offers out…. And I know Vigen prefers to develop highschool guys vs the portal “quick fix” (which I agree with completely). But still…

Transfer positions they are searching for:

RB - freshman won't be ready so need one or two more for depth. Henley changed the process here.

WR - they always are looking to add to the room here

DT - Every FCS team is always looking to add quality interior DL...as they are hard to find at this level as the great ones move up

CB - Some of the redshirt freshman are ready but losing Jon and Andrew hurt the veteran presence of this room. Don't be surprised if they add two more.

S - I like the guys we brought in in January but if they land a player who is at or near Ortt's level you have to pull the trigger

So I'm gonna say they would bring in at least 8 more players if it fits which would mean some additional cuts would have to happen as AFCAT has broken down. Surprised they aren't pursuing LB but that also means they like the progress of Daily, Grebe, Taylor, Krahe, and the young freshman (Dethman, Woodbury, and Bowles).

And if this is about the Griz adding players left and right...they are addressing different problems over there. Hauck has really been upset with the trenches so it makes sense that's where they've focused the most.

Based on what I saw at the scrimmage there weren't any glaring needs. I'm thinking most moves are an attempt to build depth and if they happen to find a player capable of jumping into the rotation somewhere, then that's an added bonus. Every position group seems to have either 4-5 battling for an open starting position or 2-3 guys battling for backup spots.

I don't see MSU being in a position where it's looking for a guy to come in and start anywhere. This is a luxury very few teams can make a claim to.

I think the coaches accept the fact that there's not another Tommy Mellott out there. If there were, he'd be playing for a P4 team already and not looking to transfer to MSU. They also don't see one in their own ranks. That's just something they'll address by making whatever changes need to be made to make the team as productive as possible of offense. That isn't to say the QBs on hand can't make the spectacular happen, because there's no doubt they can. Almost every QB, not just Mellott, to take a snap at MSU since 2010 has been able to do that. McGhee, Prukop, Murray, Andersen, McKay, Chambers, Mellott (what an absolutely dymanic group that is; I can't think of any teams with as good and diverse of a group during the same time span). Rovig and Bruggman were the only exceptions, and they didn't suck. That's a pretty good track record.

I would say Eastern Washington had a better run at QB.

McGhee, Prukop, and Tommy were all very good starters. Chambers probably would have been if he got the chance to start, I’d say at minimum a solid top BSC starter.

Murray was a bad QB. Andersen was essentially a better version of Murray, but overall, a bad QB. It worked, kind of, but it’s not what you want from a QB. McKay was probably the best after the first few, talented guy, but appeared to be mentally weak or just plain not tough. Rovig was a bad QB.

I would agree it’s a relatively diverse group in terms of ability and talent, outside of writing a story, I’m not sure how much that matters though. Could argue it makes it harder to coach all those different types, but honestly, I don’t care about any of that, I just care if they’re good or not.

[JoeCatsJoe]

I think Rovig was on the lower side of OK, not bad. Very limited, for sure, but his intangibles as a team guy, as well as him largely doing what was asked of him and nothing more, puts him more in the mediocre category. Just my opinion.

[BelligerentBobcat]

I think Rovig was on the lower side of OK, not bad. Very limited, for sure, but his intangibles as a team guy, as well as him largely doing what was asked of him and nothing more, puts him more in the mediocre category. Just my opinion.

I wouldn’t disagree with that at all. Personally, I’m of the opinion that mediocre = bad, but I got no issue with adding more nuance and detail to a ranking.

[TomCat88]

I think we watched different Bruggman’s play.

Yeah, he was pretty bad. Really, he's the only truly dud QB the Cats have had in over 2 decades. Rough seasons were 2008 (Iddins/Kempt/Desin platoon struggled) and the early part of 2016 until Choate gambled on a 17 y.o. true freshman Chris Murray. Aside from injuries to notable starters that influenced the outcomes of games and entire seasons (2012 SMU game STILL haunts me - oh what could have been with a healthy McGhee that season), the talent has usually been there. Even at backup QB.

Bruggman was on a bad team and didn’t have dynamic playmaking ability with his feet. I don’t think he sucked. I don’t think anyone that played the same style would’ve done any better.

He was a bad QB on a bad team. We don’t need to complicate this.

It's not complicated for me. Not sure why you think it is. ??? Using my memory on things that just happened in the past 6 months, isn't complicated.

A QB that was the No. 3 overall pick in the draft became a player a lot of fans and media thought sucked. He was on a bad team and he looked bad. He got on a good team with excellent WRs and was the Comeback POY. A 4-time MVP had the worst year of his career playing for the same team that drafted the No. 3 pick.

Lots of good quarterbacks have sucked on bad teams. The list of QBs that have experienced it firsthand is easy to remember. It happened at least twice in the NFL last year. Just spend a little time "doing you own research" (like Aaron Rodgers )

I realize you have a desire to be knowledgeable, but you're not. You're confident though fwiw. It's called the Dunning-Krueger Effect.

I saw Bruggman play aside from the games. I talked to the coaches and players off the record. I thought from what I saw, and they thought from what they experienced that he didn't suck. Those are my receipts. So, I'll go with that over what your opinion. I'd ask for yours, but you only have your opinion, which is based purely on your own experience and includes no input from anyone in the know.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Tom, I’ll argue almost anything, but even I’m not going to argue on whether Bruggman was bad or not.

As for the rest of your post, you’re welcome to your opinion. I’ve never claimed to be a smart man.

[TomCat88]

Tom, I’ll argue almost anything, but even I’m not going to argue on whether Bruggman was bad or not.

As for the rest of your post, you’re welcome to your opinion. I’ve never claimed to be a smart man.

You don’t have a good argument. It’s shallow and based on a very small sample size. You didn’t attempt to frame it in a way that qualified your statement. Your ability to use the English language has been limited in your time on this board. You rarely bring receipts to support your opinions.

[Colter_Nuanez]

I know Jeff Choate is considered God himself in Bobcat Nation. And I LOVE Choate. He's on my Mount Rushmore of coaches I've covered, perhaps my No. 1, any sport, ever.

But Choate was as bad or worse than any coach I've ever been around at the QB position. He bailed himself out by recruiting one of the most talented rosters in league history. The 2019 defense was nasty, nasty.

The point is that I think that if you are analyzing some of these QBs, you have to give the ones who played for Choate a bit of a leash because of the volatility in OCs, QB coaches and the style of head coach Choate himself was...

[saintcat40]

Tom, I’ll argue almost anything, but even I’m not going to argue on whether Bruggman was bad or not.

As for the rest of your post, you’re welcome to your opinion. I’ve never claimed to be a smart man.

You don’t have a good argument. It’s shallow and based on a very small sample size. You didn’t attempt to frame it in a way that qualified your statement. Your ability to use the English language has been limited in your time on this board. You rarely bring receipts to support your opinions.

Tom, I always appreciate what you bring to the board, and I almost always agree with you. However, two things I disagree with here. First of all, what vendetta do you suddenly have against BelligerentBobcat? His username makes him sound worse than he is. He actually is a very good contributor to the board. Secondly, I think you are in a small minority if you think Bruggman was a good qb. He never showed it in the games, and at the end of the day, that is the only way to judge a qb.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Tom, I’ll argue almost anything, but even I’m not going to argue on whether Bruggman was bad or not.

As for the rest of your post, you’re welcome to your opinion. I’ve never claimed to be a smart man.

You don’t have a good argument. It’s shallow and based on a very small sample size. You didn’t attempt to frame it in a way that qualified your statement. Your ability to use the English language has been limited in your time on this board. You rarely bring receipts to support your opinions.

[TomCat88]

Tom, I’ll argue almost anything, but even I’m not going to argue on whether Bruggman was bad or not.

As for the rest of your post, you’re welcome to your opinion. I’ve never claimed to be a smart man.

You don’t have a good argument. It’s shallow and based on a very small sample size. You didn’t attempt to frame it in a way that qualified your statement. Your ability to use the English language has been limited in your time on this board. You rarely bring receipts to support your opinions.

Tom, I always appreciate what you bring to the board, and I almost always agree with you. However, two things I disagree with here. First of all, what vendetta do you suddenly have against BelligerentBobcat? His username makes him sound worse than he is. He actually is a very good contributor to the board. Secondly, I think you are in a small minority if you think Bruggman was a good qb. He never showed it in the games, and at the end of the day, that is the only way to judge a qb.

Do people seriously not know of players that struggle in one place only to blossom in another, or players that are great on one team but then not play well for another? If you think he sucked, you should be able to explain why. It's your statement, you should be able to defend it. I've been proven wrong more than once.

I never said he was a good QB. I said he didn't suck, based on what I saw and was told by people that you would expect would know good from bad. That isn't me saying he's good or great or fair because I don't really know without gathering input on something like this from someone that does know.

BB is fun. I like him a lot. I like Cataholic a lot too.

[Cataholic]

Tom, I’ll argue almost anything, but even I’m not going to argue on whether Bruggman was bad or not.

As for the rest of your post, you’re welcome to your opinion. I’ve never claimed to be a smart man.

You don’t have a good argument. It’s shallow and based on a very small sample size. You didn’t attempt to frame it in a way that qualified your statement. Your ability to use the English language has been limited in your time on this board. You rarely bring receipts to support your opinions.

Tom, I always appreciate what you bring to the board, and I almost always agree with you. However, two things I disagree with here. First of all, what vendetta do you suddenly have against BelligerentBobcat? His username makes him sound worse than he is. He actually is a very good contributor to the board. Secondly, I think you are in a small minority if you think Bruggman was a good qb. He never showed it in the games, and at the end of the day, that is the only way to judge a qb.

Do people seriously not know of players that struggle in one place only to blossom in another, or players that are great on one team but then not play well for another? If you think he sucked, you should be able to explain why. It's your statement, you should be able to defend it. I've been proven wrong more than once.

I never said he was a good QB. I said he didn't suck, based on what I saw and was told by people that you would expect would know good from bad. That isn't me saying he's good or great or fair because I don't really know without gathering input on something like this from someone that does know.

BB is fun. I like him a lot. I like Cataholic a lot too.

I think Belligerent is just saying that he wasn’t athletic enough.

It is interesting how Belligerent has no problem saying players suck, but he gets triggered with any poster that says his opinion sucks. He had specifically attacked Tom on various occasions as a reporter.

And in defense of Tom regarding Brugman, it was widely reported that Brugman had legit skills that were regularly showcased in practice. He just couldn’t put it all together during games.

[BelligerentBobcat]

I can’t believe we’re actually doing this regarding Bruggerman. Unbelievable.

He was late on reads, he was inaccurate, could only play under a clean pocket (couldn’t handle pressure) and had no escapability or ability to improvise. The lateness on reads and inability to improvise would lead one to think he didn’t read coverages well. Didn’t seem like he played with a plan. The rest of the evidence would be that prior to MSU and post MSU he did not exhibit any success. Perhaps all of the stops were just bad places for him though.

Finally, I don’t doubt he looked good in practice. That was one of the worst defenses I’ve ever seen at MSU. Maybe some of it was the pressure of game day. Honestly, it doesn’t matter. There’s a long list of players who were practice all stars but couldn’t do it in game. At the end of the day, only game day matters. Hopefully this wasn’t too shallow for yo Tom, doesn’t hardly compare to “somebody told me he was good in practice”, I realize, but it’s the best I can do.