What is the QB Outlook

[lutecat]

Great post Tom.

And great thought experiment. MSU probably isn't undefeated with Chance or Jordan running the offense. UMN & Davis are maybe losses.

I think this is a 2 loss regular season team with those guys, still easily a SF team, and probably beat USD at home.

Put Chris Murray behind this line & Cats are STILL a semi final team & probably go the chipper.

Its just NOT an area of major concern.

I certainly agree with all of this. I hope Vigan lives with who we have on the roster currently. I think it instills confidence in the guys you've recruited. Let them go through the growing process and develop them. I think we have plenty of talent on the team now.
Personally for me the the whole Chris Murray thing is still a painful memory. I think the guy had Tommy Mellot potential if not better. He proved it against SDSU when he threw darts all game for four touchdowns over 300 yards passing and over 100 rushing. The kid needed some hand holding and was essentially just shown the door. Maybe I'm way off base saying but I really thing Choate effed that up. I got to know coach Noah Joseph a little while he was here. A tough no nonsense guy but he knew how to handle players that needed some extra help. I think Murray was a situation like that. With a healthy Chris Murray the cats would have been rock solid at QB for years to come. I doubt Andersen, Rovig or Bauman would have ever taken a snap had he stayed.
I get the feeling that Vigan handles these situations better than Choate but I don't really know. I just wish the cats had a do over with him. It was hugely impactful to the program IMHO and not in a good way.

At what point does the leader of your team need to hold his own hand to go to class? You shouldn't need to. He needs to be able to stand up in front of his team as an example. He didn't want to go to class and he did have his hand held some. You shouldn't need to do ot forever.

For players who struggle with academics the problems and solutions generally run a lot deeper than just "go to class". Just like the general student population, some athletes will be stronger academically than others in some areas and some players may need additional academic support of some kind in order to be successful. "Hand holding" probably isn't the best term for it but it is important to have people who are keeping track of players' academic progress and doing their best to connect them with the resources they need to do well.

I firmly believe that there's so many kids bad at school that just haven't been taught in the way they need to learn. So let's get that out.

But they literally had to walk this kid to class to make sure he went.

[seataccat]

Great post Tom.

And great thought experiment. MSU probably isn't undefeated with Chance or Jordan running the offense. UMN & Davis are maybe losses.

I think this is a 2 loss regular season team with those guys, still easily a SF team, and probably beat USD at home.

Put Chris Murray behind this line & Cats are STILL a semi final team & probably go the chipper.

Its just NOT an area of major concern.

I certainly agree with all of this. I hope Vigan lives with who we have on the roster currently. I think it instills confidence in the guys you've recruited. Let them go through the growing process and develop them. I think we have plenty of talent on the team now.
Personally for me the the whole Chris Murray thing is still a painful memory. I think the guy had Tommy Mellot potential if not better. He proved it against SDSU when he threw darts all game for four touchdowns over 300 yards passing and over 100 rushing. The kid needed some hand holding and was essentially just shown the door. Maybe I'm way off base saying but I really thing Choate effed that up. I got to know coach Noah Joseph a little while he was here. A tough no nonsense guy but he knew how to handle players that needed some extra help. I think Murray was a situation like that. With a healthy Chris Murray the cats would have been rock solid at QB for years to come. I doubt Andersen, Rovig or Bauman would have ever taken a snap had he stayed.
I get the feeling that Vigan handles these situations better than Choate but I don't really know. I just wish the cats had a do over with him. It was hugely impactful to the program IMHO and not in a good way.

At what point does the leader of your team need to hold his own hand to go to class? You shouldn't need to. He needs to be able to stand up in front of his team as an example. He didn't want to go to class and he did have his hand held some. You shouldn't need to do ot forever.

For players who struggle with academics the problems and solutions generally run a lot deeper than just "go to class". Just like the general student population, some athletes will be stronger academically than others in some areas and some players may need additional academic support of some kind in order to be successful. "Hand holding" probably isn't the best term for it but it is important to have people who are keeping track of players' academic progress and doing their best to connect them with the resources they need to do well.

I firmly believe that there's so many kids bad at school that just haven't been taught in the way they need to learn. So let's get that out.

But they literally had to walk this kid to class to make sure he went.

It sounds like you were pretty familiar with Chris and his situation. I am not so I will take your word that he just refused to try. There is not much that can be done with a kid like that.
My point was that the program should have an interest in mentoring, guiding and holding these players accountable. Chris Murray was only 17 when he got here and was far from home. I can remember those years myself very vividly. I was in the Marine Corps. I was getting a lot of hands on guidance and mentoring so to speak and I still barely kept the train on the tracks.
Again when Ash was here Noah Joseph was the DB position coach and he was highly involved in motivating them to class and making the effort in school. He was really great and I think he could have possibly made the difference to a young Chris Murray.

[SparkCat]

Great post Tom.

And great thought experiment. MSU probably isn't undefeated with Chance or Jordan running the offense. UMN & Davis are maybe losses.

I think this is a 2 loss regular season team with those guys, still easily a SF team, and probably beat USD at home.

Put Chris Murray behind this line & Cats are STILL a semi final team & probably go the chipper.

Its just NOT an area of major concern.

I certainly agree with all of this. I hope Vigan lives with who we have on the roster currently. I think it instills confidence in the guys you've recruited. Let them go through the growing process and develop them. I think we have plenty of talent on the team now.
Personally for me the the whole Chris Murray thing is still a painful memory. I think the guy had Tommy Mellot potential if not better. He proved it against SDSU when he threw darts all game for four touchdowns over 300 yards passing and over 100 rushing. The kid needed some hand holding and was essentially just shown the door. Maybe I'm way off base saying but I really thing Choate effed that up. I got to know coach Noah Joseph a little while he was here. A tough no nonsense guy but he knew how to handle players that needed some extra help. I think Murray was a situation like that. With a healthy Chris Murray the cats would have been rock solid at QB for years to come. I doubt Andersen, Rovig or Bauman would have ever taken a snap had he stayed.
I get the feeling that Vigan handles these situations better than Choate but I don't really know. I just wish the cats had a do over with him. It was hugely impactful to the program IMHO and not in a good way.

At what point does the leader of your team need to hold his own hand to go to class? You shouldn't need to. He needs to be able to stand up in front of his team as an example. He didn't want to go to class and he did have his hand held some. You shouldn't need to do ot forever.

For players who struggle with academics the problems and solutions generally run a lot deeper than just "go to class". Just like the general student population, some athletes will be stronger academically than others in some areas and some players may need additional academic support of some kind in order to be successful. "Hand holding" probably isn't the best term for it but it is important to have people who are keeping track of players' academic progress and doing their best to connect them with the resources they need to do well.

I firmly believe that there's so many kids bad at school that just haven't been taught in the way they need to learn. So let's get that out.

But they literally had to walk this kid to class to make sure he went.

It sounds like you were pretty familiar with Chris and his situation. I am not so I will take your word that he just refused to try. There is not much that can be done with a kid like that.
My point was that the program should have an interest in mentoring, guiding and holding these players accountable. Chris Murray was only 17 when he got here and was far from home. I can remember those years myself very vividly. I was in the Marine Corps. I was getting a lot of hands on guidance and mentoring so to speak and I still barely kept the train on the tracks.
Again when Ash was here Noah Joseph was the DB position coach and he was highly involved in motivating them to class and making the effort in school. He was really great and I think he could have possibly made the difference to a young Chris Murray.

It’s awesome how we have different interactions with people that shape and mold our perspective of them. I’m sincerely glad you enjoyed Joseph. I’m sorry, and I’m not attacking you, but out of a number of coaches I’ve had and have dealt with, he is an individual I do not have much respect for.

[lutecat]

Great post Tom.

And great thought experiment. MSU probably isn't undefeated with Chance or Jordan running the offense. UMN & Davis are maybe losses.

I think this is a 2 loss regular season team with those guys, still easily a SF team, and probably beat USD at home.

Put Chris Murray behind this line & Cats are STILL a semi final team & probably go the chipper.

Its just NOT an area of major concern.

I certainly agree with all of this. I hope Vigan lives with who we have on the roster currently. I think it instills confidence in the guys you've recruited. Let them go through the growing process and develop them. I think we have plenty of talent on the team now.
Personally for me the the whole Chris Murray thing is still a painful memory. I think the guy had Tommy Mellot potential if not better. He proved it against SDSU when he threw darts all game for four touchdowns over 300 yards passing and over 100 rushing. The kid needed some hand holding and was essentially just shown the door. Maybe I'm way off base saying but I really thing Choate effed that up. I got to know coach Noah Joseph a little while he was here. A tough no nonsense guy but he knew how to handle players that needed some extra help. I think Murray was a situation like that. With a healthy Chris Murray the cats would have been rock solid at QB for years to come. I doubt Andersen, Rovig or Bauman would have ever taken a snap had he stayed.
I get the feeling that Vigan handles these situations better than Choate but I don't really know. I just wish the cats had a do over with him. It was hugely impactful to the program IMHO and not in a good way.

At what point does the leader of your team need to hold his own hand to go to class? You shouldn't need to. He needs to be able to stand up in front of his team as an example. He didn't want to go to class and he did have his hand held some. You shouldn't need to do ot forever.

For players who struggle with academics the problems and solutions generally run a lot deeper than just "go to class". Just like the general student population, some athletes will be stronger academically than others in some areas and some players may need additional academic support of some kind in order to be successful. "Hand holding" probably isn't the best term for it but it is important to have people who are keeping track of players' academic progress and doing their best to connect them with the resources they need to do well.

I firmly believe that there's so many kids bad at school that just haven't been taught in the way they need to learn. So let's get that out.

But they literally had to walk this kid to class to make sure he went.

It sounds like you were pretty familiar with Chris and his situation. I am not so I will take your word that he just refused to try. There is not much that can be done with a kid like that.
My point was that the program should have an interest in mentoring, guiding and holding these players accountable. Chris Murray was only 17 when he got here and was far from home. I can remember those years myself very vividly. I was in the Marine Corps. I was getting a lot of hands on guidance and mentoring so to speak and I still barely kept the train on the tracks.
Again when Ash was here Noah Joseph was the DB position coach and he was highly involved in motivating them to class and making the effort in school. He was really great and I think he could have possibly made the difference to a young Chris Murray.

It’s awesome how we have different interactions with people that shape and mold our perspective of them. I’m sincerely glad you enjoyed Joseph. I’m sorry, and I’m not attacking you, but out of a number of coaches I’ve had and have dealt with, he is an individual I do not have much respect for.

Can you expand on that? I hadn't heard anything but it's been long ago enough I probably wouldn't remember.

[SparkCat]

Great post Tom.

And great thought experiment. MSU probably isn't undefeated with Chance or Jordan running the offense. UMN & Davis are maybe losses.

I think this is a 2 loss regular season team with those guys, still easily a SF team, and probably beat USD at home.

Put Chris Murray behind this line & Cats are STILL a semi final team & probably go the chipper.

Its just NOT an area of major concern.

I certainly agree with all of this. I hope Vigan lives with who we have on the roster currently. I think it instills confidence in the guys you've recruited. Let them go through the growing process and develop them. I think we have plenty of talent on the team now.
Personally for me the the whole Chris Murray thing is still a painful memory. I think the guy had Tommy Mellot potential if not better. He proved it against SDSU when he threw darts all game for four touchdowns over 300 yards passing and over 100 rushing. The kid needed some hand holding and was essentially just shown the door. Maybe I'm way off base saying but I really thing Choate effed that up. I got to know coach Noah Joseph a little while he was here. A tough no nonsense guy but he knew how to handle players that needed some extra help. I think Murray was a situation like that. With a healthy Chris Murray the cats would have been rock solid at QB for years to come. I doubt Andersen, Rovig or Bauman would have ever taken a snap had he stayed.
I get the feeling that Vigan handles these situations better than Choate but I don't really know. I just wish the cats had a do over with him. It was hugely impactful to the program IMHO and not in a good way.

At what point does the leader of your team need to hold his own hand to go to class? You shouldn't need to. He needs to be able to stand up in front of his team as an example. He didn't want to go to class and he did have his hand held some. You shouldn't need to do ot forever.

For players who struggle with academics the problems and solutions generally run a lot deeper than just "go to class". Just like the general student population, some athletes will be stronger academically than others in some areas and some players may need additional academic support of some kind in order to be successful. "Hand holding" probably isn't the best term for it but it is important to have people who are keeping track of players' academic progress and doing their best to connect them with the resources they need to do well.

I firmly believe that there's so many kids bad at school that just haven't been taught in the way they need to learn. So let's get that out.

But they literally had to walk this kid to class to make sure he went.

It sounds like you were pretty familiar with Chris and his situation. I am not so I will take your word that he just refused to try. There is not much that can be done with a kid like that.
My point was that the program should have an interest in mentoring, guiding and holding these players accountable. Chris Murray was only 17 when he got here and was far from home. I can remember those years myself very vividly. I was in the Marine Corps. I was getting a lot of hands on guidance and mentoring so to speak and I still barely kept the train on the tracks.
Again when Ash was here Noah Joseph was the DB position coach and he was highly involved in motivating them to class and making the effort in school. He was really great and I think he could have possibly made the difference to a young Chris Murray.

It’s awesome how we have different interactions with people that shape and mold our perspective of them. I’m sincerely glad you enjoyed Joseph. I’m sorry, and I’m not attacking you, but out of a number of coaches I’ve had and have dealt with, he is an individual I do not have much respect for.

Can you expand on that? I hadn't heard anything but it's been long ago enough I probably wouldn't remember.

He just had a bit little man syndrome. Loved to try and make track and field athletes move out of the indoor facility during track scheduled practice times, in return would be butting heads with track coaches. Loved to argue with players in his position group, even stated he’d fight one of them (that player was extremely mouthy) and did make a bigger deal of that comment than it needed to be. Was heavily involved with Campus Crusaders, I believe that was the group, and had the entire holier than thou attitude. He thought he was a hotshot all while coaching his DB’s to play 20 yards off the ball, part of Jamie Marshall’s group, and did not like to be challenged.

He was in the athletic student center a lot so he must of cared quite a bit about grades. He was young, I was younger maybe our personalities just clashed, I’m sure he learned from it and is also a better person.

One common denominator amongst a few Ash era staff was, prima-donna.

[seataccat]

Great post Tom.

And great thought experiment. MSU probably isn't undefeated with Chance or Jordan running the offense. UMN & Davis are maybe losses.

I think this is a 2 loss regular season team with those guys, still easily a SF team, and probably beat USD at home.

Put Chris Murray behind this line & Cats are STILL a semi final team & probably go the chipper.

Its just NOT an area of major concern.

I certainly agree with all of this. I hope Vigan lives with who we have on the roster currently. I think it instills confidence in the guys you've recruited. Let them go through the growing process and develop them. I think we have plenty of talent on the team now.
Personally for me the the whole Chris Murray thing is still a painful memory. I think the guy had Tommy Mellot potential if not better. He proved it against SDSU when he threw darts all game for four touchdowns over 300 yards passing and over 100 rushing. The kid needed some hand holding and was essentially just shown the door. Maybe I'm way off base saying but I really thing Choate effed that up. I got to know coach Noah Joseph a little while he was here. A tough no nonsense guy but he knew how to handle players that needed some extra help. I think Murray was a situation like that. With a healthy Chris Murray the cats would have been rock solid at QB for years to come. I doubt Andersen, Rovig or Bauman would have ever taken a snap had he stayed.
I get the feeling that Vigan handles these situations better than Choate but I don't really know. I just wish the cats had a do over with him. It was hugely impactful to the program IMHO and not in a good way.

At what point does the leader of your team need to hold his own hand to go to class? You shouldn't need to. He needs to be able to stand up in front of his team as an example. He didn't want to go to class and he did have his hand held some. You shouldn't need to do ot forever.

For players who struggle with academics the problems and solutions generally run a lot deeper than just "go to class". Just like the general student population, some athletes will be stronger academically than others in some areas and some players may need additional academic support of some kind in order to be successful. "Hand holding" probably isn't the best term for it but it is important to have people who are keeping track of players' academic progress and doing their best to connect them with the resources they need to do well.

I firmly believe that there's so many kids bad at school that just haven't been taught in the way they need to learn. So let's get that out.

But they literally had to walk this kid to class to make sure he went.

It sounds like you were pretty familiar with Chris and his situation. I am not so I will take your word that he just refused to try. There is not much that can be done with a kid like that.
My point was that the program should have an interest in mentoring, guiding and holding these players accountable. Chris Murray was only 17 when he got here and was far from home. I can remember those years myself very vividly. I was in the Marine Corps. I was getting a lot of hands on guidance and mentoring so to speak and I still barely kept the train on the tracks.
Again when Ash was here Noah Joseph was the DB position coach and he was highly involved in motivating them to class and making the effort in school. He was really great and I think he could have possibly made the difference to a young Chris Murray.

It’s awesome how we have different interactions with people that shape and mold our perspective of them. I’m sincerely glad you enjoyed Joseph. I’m sorry, and I’m not attacking you, but out of a number of coaches I’ve had and have dealt with, he is an individual I do not have much respect for.

Can you expand on that? I hadn't heard anything but it's been long ago enough I probably wouldn't remember.

He just had a bit little man syndrome. Loved to try and make track and field athletes move out of the indoor facility during track scheduled practice times, in return would be butting heads with track coaches. Loved to argue with players in his position group, even stated he’d fight one of them (that player was extremely mouthy) and did make a bigger deal of that comment than it needed to be. Was heavily involved with Campus Crusaders, I believe that was the group, and had the entire holier than thou attitude. He thought he was a hotshot all while coaching his DB’s to play 20 yards off the ball, part of Jamie Marshall’s group, and did not like to be challenged.

He was in the athletic student center a lot so he must of cared quite a bit about grades. He was young, I was younger maybe our personalities just clashed, I’m sure he learned from it and is also a better person.

One common denominator amongst a few Ash era staff was, prima-donna.

I did not know this. I really didn't know him that well beyond what I observed the few times I met him and second hand through someone in my family that was a DB during those years.

[BLACKnBLUEnGOLD]

Are we really blaming the position coach for Jamie Marshall's soft coverages? I guess that's not as silly as blaming Deonte Flowers for it, but scheme is dictated by the head coach or coordinator, not the position coach

[BelligerentBobcat]

Huh. Players I knew then never complained about Joseph. I guess everybody sees things differently.

[SparkCat]

Huh. Players I knew then never complained about Joseph. I guess everybody sees things differently.

I am sure he was great. I should also add that during my time there I was a bit of a pain in the butt as well.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Huh. Players I knew then never complained about Joseph. I guess everybody sees things differently.

I am sure he was great. I should also add that during my time there I was a bit of a pain in the butt as well.

To be fair, I never hung out with any of the DB’s.