2025 Defense outlook

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

my take as a football junkie

DE: we'll be as good this year as last year. i would like to see more explosion off the line and more refined pass rush tech, but all in all we will be just as good...nothing to worry about here.

DT: same...we'll be just as good. we have some young guys along with the guys that were rotating in that will keep us very good....again nothing to worry about here.

LBs: imo...one of our weakness. they just aren't fast. ndsu made us run sideline to sideline and we couldn't get there. during the season all big runs came when lbs couldn't scrape over the top. we are great inside the tackles but we just aren't good in space. have to improve in that area. I think they will be better and more instinctual. I see this unit being no different than this year. We'll be alright when the rubber meets the rd.

CB: we will be young. we have a lot of young very fast very talented guys. how fast they mature will determine how good they are. mcmillan is ready to go now. if there were any hiccups in pass defense he would've played ahead of johnson. williams and boyd are very fast but very immature, they have to grow up NOW. johnson is also very talented but has to mature. they will make plays off pure ability, but will give up plays because of immaturity. could be the strongest group talent wise but also could be the weakest group mentally/maturity wise.

S: we lost two really good ones but they have already been replaced. taki, ife, gray, ross, et al. all are very talented and imo are more athletic than those that are leaving. they have to pick up the calls/scheme and i don't see a huge drop off here. I actually think they will be better than last year because i think they will be able to cover better and will be just as good in the run. could be our most reliable group. This group will make a lot of people right when they were wrong.

Overall: we will be athletically better, but many key pieces are unknown commodities. the other part to think about is complimentary football. our offense will be finding itself with a new qb and new OC, that will affect the defense early on. I think we will see more eye popping plays but our numbers won't be as good early on. As the offense finds itself and gets in a groove our defense will grow up as well and our numbers will look better as the season goes on. Statiscally we will not be as good as this year, but by the end of the year we will be a better defense than last year.

The weakest areas may be LB and CB, but I think LB will be better than it was the second half of last season. I think the depth at safety could shake things up at nickel and cornerback. MSU’s pass defense really revolved around DL play. Lack of pass rush vs NDSU made that glaringly obvious.

I don't see CB as a weakness at all, ability wise. they are the most unproven area, but not the weakest. Again yes they are young but all of them are extremely talented, they have the potential to be the strongest unit, but that all depends on how quickly as a unit they can mature. the lb unit will get better as they showed that over the course of the season, that they will work and improve. but off pure ability they are the weakest group.

OK, misread what you were saying there. What do you think of Gray going to cornerback? I see a lot of players bunched up at safety and the likelihood of Dowler moving back to nickel makes me wonder if Gray is a possibility at CB. Of course, having both at nickel would be a great luxury as would keeping Dowler at safety.

I'm not sure what good speed is at LB. I didn't think MSU was particularly 'quick' at that position last year. The two guys coming back were mid-11 100m guys in HS as is RsF Bowles. I felt that both Grebe and Daily were faster/quicker than O'Reilly, but O'Reilly had more experience/instincts and was a very good player. I think Grebe, Daily and Bowles all have a higher ceiling. Jody Owens was a very quick LB, but I'm not sure if he was all that fast of a sprinter. I thought MSU's biggest speed problem was at safety, and I think speed is a more essential thing at that spot than LB. Will be interesting to see how the position progresses.

From what I saw great should stay at nickel. He's quick enough and had the mobility to cover in the nickel spot, he's also very physical. Having him and dowler there is essential.

Mid 11s isn't terrible but it isn't fast by any means, even at lber. Having a wish burst and a toy said instincts is more important at lb, especially they way are defense is schemed. I would like to see them have more fluidity and have the speed to close with property angles in the open field. That's where I saw a huge weakness last year.

We have more speed at safety this year, but they need to pick up on the defense quickly. It doesn't matter how fast you are if you don't know what your doing you'll play slow.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

I’d agree on the speed of Grebe at LB, disagree with Daily. He’s plenty fast enough, he was just thinking too much. Should be much improved next season. Ryan Bowles appeared to have good speed too when he was in HS, I’d like to see him get some snaps.

We will have to agree to disagree...none of them are fast at all. maybe your version of fast and mine may be different. every one of our lbers were out ran to the edges even when they got a jump on the ball. only time they were on time on the edges is when they were blitzed. in space they get lost frequently and leveraged on swing routes. they are really good pluggers and are aggressive to fill gaps from c gap to a gap, but make them have to run to the d and have any type of stretch or x blocking scheme and safeties are making the tackle cause they aren't there.

Daily ran low 22’s in the 200 in HS. Obviously he’s gained some size since then, but he’s not slow.

I rarely saw him get outran to the edges unless he misread a play, which happens. I understand there are backers that are a lot faster, but I saw one of the fastest ever play for a few years here, so I’m not ignorant to what a fast LB looks like either.

When you say lie 22s I'm going to assume you mean high 22s.. like 22.8 22.9...low 22s would be almost breaking 21 and I definitely didn't see anyone moving she speed of an almost 21 from lb crew. Again we can agree to disagree.

[BelligerentBobcat]

I’d agree on the speed of Grebe at LB, disagree with Daily. He’s plenty fast enough, he was just thinking too much. Should be much improved next season. Ryan Bowles appeared to have good speed too when he was in HS, I’d like to see him get some snaps.

We will have to agree to disagree...none of them are fast at all. maybe your version of fast and mine may be different. every one of our lbers were out ran to the edges even when they got a jump on the ball. only time they were on time on the edges is when they were blitzed. in space they get lost frequently and leveraged on swing routes. they are really good pluggers and are aggressive to fill gaps from c gap to a gap, but make them have to run to the d and have any type of stretch or x blocking scheme and safeties are making the tackle cause they aren't there.

Daily ran low 22’s in the 200 in HS. Obviously he’s gained some size since then, but he’s not slow.

I rarely saw him get outran to the edges unless he misread a play, which happens. I understand there are backers that are a lot faster, but I saw one of the fastest ever play for a few years here, so I’m not ignorant to what a fast LB looks like either.

When you say lie 22s I'm going to assume you mean high 22s.. like 22.8 22.9...low 22s would be almost breaking 21 and I definitely didn't see anyone moving she speed of an almost 21 from lb crew. Again we can agree to disagree.

I know the difference between low and high buddy.

Daily ran a 22.39 as a sophomore in HS. Also ran an 11.27 in the 100.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

I’d agree on the speed of Grebe at LB, disagree with Daily. He’s plenty fast enough, he was just thinking too much. Should be much improved next season. Ryan Bowles appeared to have good speed too when he was in HS, I’d like to see him get some snaps.

We will have to agree to disagree...none of them are fast at all. maybe your version of fast and mine may be different. every one of our lbers were out ran to the edges even when they got a jump on the ball. only time they were on time on the edges is when they were blitzed. in space they get lost frequently and leveraged on swing routes. they are really good pluggers and are aggressive to fill gaps from c gap to a gap, but make them have to run to the d and have any type of stretch or x blocking scheme and safeties are making the tackle cause they aren't there.

Daily ran low 22’s in the 200 in HS. Obviously he’s gained some size since then, but he’s not slow.

I rarely saw him get outran to the edges unless he misread a play, which happens. I understand there are backers that are a lot faster, but I saw one of the fastest ever play for a few years here, so I’m not ignorant to what a fast LB looks like either.

When you say lie 22s I'm going to assume you mean high 22s.. like 22.8 22.9...low 22s would be almost breaking 21 and I definitely didn't see anyone moving she speed of an almost 21 from lb crew. Again we can agree to disagree.

I know the difference between low and high buddy.

Daily ran a 22.39 as a sophomore in HS. Also ran an 11.27 in the 100.

You do realize that those are jv/frosh track numbers in Texas. 11.27 doesn't win a freshman meet in Texas. You do realize that he doesn't have that same body as a 2nd 3rd yr college kid. I bet if he got on a track right now he'd run a 23 maybe high 22. If he had that same body and speed as a sr he'd be a safety.

As stated what you call fast and what I call fast are extremely different.... buddy

[ike11ike]

Yeaaaaaasaa buddy

[BelligerentBobcat]

I’d agree on the speed of Grebe at LB, disagree with Daily. He’s plenty fast enough, he was just thinking too much. Should be much improved next season. Ryan Bowles appeared to have good speed too when he was in HS, I’d like to see him get some snaps.

We will have to agree to disagree...none of them are fast at all. maybe your version of fast and mine may be different. every one of our lbers were out ran to the edges even when they got a jump on the ball. only time they were on time on the edges is when they were blitzed. in space they get lost frequently and leveraged on swing routes. they are really good pluggers and are aggressive to fill gaps from c gap to a gap, but make them have to run to the d and have any type of stretch or x blocking scheme and safeties are making the tackle cause they aren't there.

Daily ran low 22’s in the 200 in HS. Obviously he’s gained some size since then, but he’s not slow.

I rarely saw him get outran to the edges unless he misread a play, which happens. I understand there are backers that are a lot faster, but I saw one of the fastest ever play for a few years here, so I’m not ignorant to what a fast LB looks like either.

When you say lie 22s I'm going to assume you mean high 22s.. like 22.8 22.9...low 22s would be almost breaking 21 and I definitely didn't see anyone moving she speed of an almost 21 from lb crew. Again we can agree to disagree.

I know the difference between low and high buddy.

Daily ran a 22.39 as a sophomore in HS. Also ran an 11.27 in the 100.

You do realize that those are jv/frosh track numbers in Texas. 11.27 doesn't win a freshman meet in Texas. You do realize that he doesn't have that same body as a 2nd 3rd yr college kid. I bet if he got on a track right now he'd run a 23 maybe high 22. If he had that same body and speed as a sr he'd be a safety.

As stated what you call fast and what I call fast are extremely different.... buddy

I’m a track junkie, I’m pretty aware of what those numbers mean in different states. You’ll note I never said said they were elite, never compared them to other states, all I did was use them to show he had and has speed. You were the one who thought I confused on what I meant when I said low 22’s.

I realize this isn’t going to match up to what you might see in Texas, or major FBS schools, but we’re also not talking about them in this context. He’s more than fast enough to be a good LB at the FCS level. But we don’t have to agree. Have a great day.

[Hawks86]

That's it guys. Time to realize that Troy is actually slow.

[ClowderUp]

I'm with Belligerent on this one. Bobby Daly, Jody Owens, Callahan O'Reilly were All Americans playing LB at Montana State and not a single one of them stood a chance in a HS track meet in Texas. Neil Daily is plenty fast enough to emerge as our next elite FCS linebacker. Questions remain on durability and his ability to read/react effectively (eye discipline). I happen to think he will emerge as one of the best LBs in the conference this fall.

[SparkCat]

I’d agree on the speed of Grebe at LB, disagree with Daily. He’s plenty fast enough, he was just thinking too much. Should be much improved next season. Ryan Bowles appeared to have good speed too when he was in HS, I’d like to see him get some snaps.

We will have to agree to disagree...none of them are fast at all. maybe your version of fast and mine may be different. every one of our lbers were out ran to the edges even when they got a jump on the ball. only time they were on time on the edges is when they were blitzed. in space they get lost frequently and leveraged on swing routes. they are really good pluggers and are aggressive to fill gaps from c gap to a gap, but make them have to run to the d and have any type of stretch or x blocking scheme and safeties are making the tackle cause they aren't there.

Daily ran low 22’s in the 200 in HS. Obviously he’s gained some size since then, but he’s not slow.

I rarely saw him get outran to the edges unless he misread a play, which happens. I understand there are backers that are a lot faster, but I saw one of the fastest ever play for a few years here, so I’m not ignorant to what a fast LB looks like either.

When you say lie 22s I'm going to assume you mean high 22s.. like 22.8 22.9...low 22s would be almost breaking 21 and I definitely didn't see anyone moving she speed of an almost 21 from lb crew. Again we can agree to disagree.

I know the difference between low and high buddy.

Daily ran a 22.39 as a sophomore in HS. Also ran an 11.27 in the 100.

You do realize that those are jv/frosh track numbers in Texas. 11.27 doesn't win a freshman meet in Texas. You do realize that he doesn't have that same body as a 2nd 3rd yr college kid. I bet if he got on a track right now he'd run a 23 maybe high 22. If he had that same body and speed as a sr he'd be a safety.

As stated what you call fast and what I call fast are extremely different.... buddy

I’m a track junkie, I’m pretty aware of what those numbers mean in different states. You’ll note I never said said they were elite, never compared them to other states, all I did was use them to show he had and has speed. You were the one who thought I confused on what I meant when I said low 22’s.

I realize this isn’t going to match up to what you might see in Texas, or major FBS schools, but we’re also not talking about them in this context. He’s more than fast enough to be a good LB at the FCS level. But we don’t have to agree. Have a great day.

We also have a pretty good idea of what elite speed at linebacker can do for us. I remember it like yesterday when Andersen was running down the fastest receivers on opposing teams like he was taking a Sunday walk. I’ll agree with both of you, elite speed at LB can really make a difference. Troy’s speed is elite and is hard to find at FCS level and Daily has adequate FCS speed! I’m a track dork, but could only critique and make claims on spear throwing.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

I’d agree on the speed of Grebe at LB, disagree with Daily. He’s plenty fast enough, he was just thinking too much. Should be much improved next season. Ryan Bowles appeared to have good speed too when he was in HS, I’d like to see him get some snaps.

We will have to agree to disagree...none of them are fast at all. maybe your version of fast and mine may be different. every one of our lbers were out ran to the edges even when they got a jump on the ball. only time they were on time on the edges is when they were blitzed. in space they get lost frequently and leveraged on swing routes. they are really good pluggers and are aggressive to fill gaps from c gap to a gap, but make them have to run to the d and have any type of stretch or x blocking scheme and safeties are making the tackle cause they aren't there.

Daily ran low 22’s in the 200 in HS. Obviously he’s gained some size since then, but he’s not slow.

I rarely saw him get outran to the edges unless he misread a play, which happens. I understand there are backers that are a lot faster, but I saw one of the fastest ever play for a few years here, so I’m not ignorant to what a fast LB looks like either.

When you say lie 22s I'm going to assume you mean high 22s.. like 22.8 22.9...low 22s would be almost breaking 21 and I definitely didn't see anyone moving she speed of an almost 21 from lb crew. Again we can agree to disagree.

I know the difference between low and high buddy.

Daily ran a 22.39 as a sophomore in HS. Also ran an 11.27 in the 100.

You do realize that those are jv/frosh track numbers in Texas. 11.27 doesn't win a freshman meet in Texas. You do realize that he doesn't have that same body as a 2nd 3rd yr college kid. I bet if he got on a track right now he'd run a 23 maybe high 22. If he had that same body and speed as a sr he'd be a safety.

As stated what you call fast and what I call fast are extremely different.... buddy

I’m a track junkie, I’m pretty aware of what those numbers mean in different states. You’ll note I never said said they were elite, never compared them to other states, all I did was use them to show he had and has speed. You were the one who thought I confused on what I meant when I said low 22’s.

I realize this isn’t going to match up to what you might see in Texas, or major FBS schools, but we’re also not talking about them in this context. He’s more than fast enough to be a good LB at the FCS level. But we don’t have to agree. Have a great day.

If your're a track junkie then you know that those numbers do not equate to fast....i said it from the beginning your version of fast and mine are vastly different....running a 22 isn't fast in my book, it's decent at best....an 11.27 isn't fast, it's decent....you find it to be fast or qualifies someone as "having speed" I don't, that's very avg, regardless of the level you are at. also you are talking about times this young man ran over 3-4yrs ago and probably 30-40lbs ago. again we view fast very differently, and that's ok.

next i never said that he nor any of the other lbers aren't fast enough to be effective or be good players. I actually said they improved over the course of the season so I see not reason why they wouldn't continue to progress and get better. I went on to say that they are great players C gap to A gap as pluggers, aggressive, explosive and physical at the point of contact. I did say that get lost in space, which they do and I would like to see them get faster because we got outran to the edges even when we got a jump, again a fact. Nothing I said leaned towards not being good players or top quality players....i pointed out a weakness that they have to improve upon if we want to continue to get better....

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

I’d agree on the speed of Grebe at LB, disagree with Daily. He’s plenty fast enough, he was just thinking too much. Should be much improved next season. Ryan Bowles appeared to have good speed too when he was in HS, I’d like to see him get some snaps.

We will have to agree to disagree...none of them are fast at all. maybe your version of fast and mine may be different. every one of our lbers were out ran to the edges even when they got a jump on the ball. only time they were on time on the edges is when they were blitzed. in space they get lost frequently and leveraged on swing routes. they are really good pluggers and are aggressive to fill gaps from c gap to a gap, but make them have to run to the d and have any type of stretch or x blocking scheme and safeties are making the tackle cause they aren't there.

Daily ran low 22’s in the 200 in HS. Obviously he’s gained some size since then, but he’s not slow.

I rarely saw him get outran to the edges unless he misread a play, which happens. I understand there are backers that are a lot faster, but I saw one of the fastest ever play for a few years here, so I’m not ignorant to what a fast LB looks like either.

When you say lie 22s I'm going to assume you mean high 22s.. like 22.8 22.9...low 22s would be almost breaking 21 and I definitely didn't see anyone moving she speed of an almost 21 from lb crew. Again we can agree to disagree.

I know the difference between low and high buddy.

Daily ran a 22.39 as a sophomore in HS. Also ran an 11.27 in the 100.

You do realize that those are jv/frosh track numbers in Texas. 11.27 doesn't win a freshman meet in Texas. You do realize that he doesn't have that same body as a 2nd 3rd yr college kid. I bet if he got on a track right now he'd run a 23 maybe high 22. If he had that same body and speed as a sr he'd be a safety.

As stated what you call fast and what I call fast are extremely different.... buddy

I’m a track junkie, I’m pretty aware of what those numbers mean in different states. You’ll note I never said said they were elite, never compared them to other states, all I did was use them to show he had and has speed. You were the one who thought I confused on what I meant when I said low 22’s.

I realize this isn’t going to match up to what you might see in Texas, or major FBS schools, but we’re also not talking about them in this context. He’s more than fast enough to be a good LB at the FCS level. But we don’t have to agree. Have a great day.

We also have a pretty good idea of what elite speed at linebacker can do for us. I remember it like yesterday when Andersen was running down the fastest receivers on opposing teams like he was taking a Sunday walk. I’ll agree with both of you, elite speed at LB can really make a difference. Troy’s speed is elite and is hard to find at FCS level and Daily has adequate FCS speed! I’m a track dork, but could only critique and make claims on spear throwing.

So if you know what fast is at the lber position then why are we saying daily is fast, he isn't. he isn't slow and I never called him slow, I said he isn't fast...that's just a plain old fact at this point in time.

I also never said that any of them couldn't be good, really good or even great lbers here. I said they have improved over the season and i expect them to continue to get better, i said they are great C gap to A gap players. I pointed out what they do well then I pointed out what they don't do well and people are getting butt hurt because I said they aren't fast...the aren't...go back and look at the ndsu game, they made our lbers run sideline to sideline when they wanted to gain rushing yardage and it worked every single time. we were slow to the point of contact. the safeties had to fit but they were worried about lance taking off on them. it put us in a bind and they took advantage of it. they guys can play but there are areas they need to improve upon.....i literally stated that with ever single position that i looked at....gave what they did well and where i'd like to see them get better to help continue to move the defense forward....but for whatever reason we have got stuck on the lbers aren't fast...oh and i said i find them to be the weakest group...i explained that is due to the lack of athletic ability....they simply aren't the best athletes on the field and they aren't fast so that puts them in the weakest category for me....I'm talking down we are looking at unbiased analyzation of the defensive units, there is no emotion in this for me...it's being honest about where each group is right now from my stand point....ya'll don't have to agree that's fine but I'm not talking down on them just talking ball and when I do that i'm going to be honest with no emotion involved.

[TomCat88]

It isn't about being fast, it's about being faster. The main thing players need to do in the off season is get faster, stronger and improve technique. It ain't rocket surgery. MSU looks like it will be faster overall on defense next year. And the overall team speed on defense was something that was lacking last year. Obviously, they can't just insert faster players and be better. However, the players they appear to be inserting look faster. Couple that with the excellent coaching at MSU and I think it's reasonable to think the defense will be better.

The DL looks elite. That sets up everyone else. MSU, in my opinion, looks really good on defense in 2025.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

It isn't about being fast, it's about being faster. The main thing players need to do in the off season is get faster, stronger and improve technique. It ain't rocket surgery. MSU looks like it will be faster overall on defense next year. And the overall team speed on defense was something that was lacking last year. Obviously, they can't just insert faster players and be better. However, the players they appear to be inserting look faster. Couple that with the excellent coaching at MSU and I think it's reasonable to think the defense will be better.

The DL looks elite. That sets up everyone else. MSU, in my opinion, looks really good on defense in 2025.

Exactly my point. I stated they need to get faster as we got leveraged at times. the young dbs while fast, need to get stronger and mature up...the new safeties need to learn our system and prove they can be as good as the players from last year.....every unit has something they need to work on...i agree we will be good on defense this year.

[luckyirishguy25]

fast doesn't mean ****** if your out of position or taking bad angles or even getting bottled up on blocks. Daly does all 3 well, Grebe needs some work but he's usually in the right spot, but he take poor angles and has trouble getting off blocks.... he's also a true freshman so I'll cut him so slack because he played well the majority of the year.

We could always use an upgrade in speed, but speed isn't everything.

[TomCat88]

fast doesn't mean ****** if your out of position or taking bad angles or even getting bottled up on blocks. Daly does all 3 well, Grebe needs some work but he's usually in the right spot, but he take poor angles and has trouble getting off blocks.... he's also a true freshman so I'll cut him so slack because he played well the majority of the year.

We could always use an upgrade in speed, but speed isn't everything.

Daily

That’s a given. I’m just pointing out that the team speed on defense cost msu several times vs good teams late in the year and that I think the overall speed will be better next year.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

fast doesn't mean ****** if your out of position or taking bad angles or even getting bottled up on blocks. Daly does all 3 well, Grebe needs some work but he's usually in the right spot, but he take poor angles and has trouble getting off blocks.... he's also a true freshman so I'll cut him so slack because he played well the majority of the year.

We could always use an upgrade in speed, but speed isn't everything.

actually being fast does mean **** if you are out of position because when you are out of position your speed makes up for it and will allow you to make plays even when out of position. if you take a bad angle, if you're fast then you can over come that bad angel because of your speed. if you diagnose plays slow you can get there at the same time as the guy who diagnoses quick but is slower than you because you are fast....being fast makes up for tons of deficiencies. being able to do all those things isn't the easiest thing but when you can outrun the people on the other side of the ball you don't have to be great at all of those things. conversely you don't have to be fast to be good player if you possess all of those other things....it's a sliding scale.....the ones that are fast and can do all of those other things, play on Sundays.

Nothing is everything...people would love an upgrade in strength, but it isn't everything....people would love an upgrade in size, but size isn't everything....it's a given there isn't any one trait that is everything....but by god i'll take a fast guy over everything else. speed neutralizes almost any trait you can have on the football field...if you're stronger than me I can get around you and beat you to the point of contact with speed. if i generate enough speed I can counteract your size and weight, that was my claim to fame being a physical cb that was relatively light in the butt. if i'm still learning the plays can be slow before i go because when i go i can outrun everyone or at least catch up to everyone....speed does matter and makes a huge difference....having speed takes 2yd gains and makes them -2yd gains....you ask any coach they will take a guy that can move over a guy that can't.

[luckyirishguy25]

fast doesn't mean ****** if your out of position or taking bad angles or even getting bottled up on blocks. Daly does all 3 well, Grebe needs some work but he's usually in the right spot, but he take poor angles and has trouble getting off blocks.... he's also a true freshman so I'll cut him so slack because he played well the majority of the year.

We could always use an upgrade in speed, but speed isn't everything.

actually being fast does mean **** if you are out of position because when you are out of position your speed makes up for it and will allow you to make plays even when out of position. if you take a bad angle, if you're fast then you can over come that bad angel because of your speed. if you diagnose plays slow you can get there at the same time as the guy who diagnoses quick but is slower than you because you are fast....being fast makes up for tons of deficiencies. being able to do all those things isn't the easiest thing but when you can outrun the people on the other side of the ball you don't have to be great at all of those things. conversely you don't have to be fast to be good player if you possess all of those other things....it's a sliding scale.....the ones that are fast and can do all of those other things, play on Sundays.

Nothing is everything...people would love an upgrade in strength, but it isn't everything....people would love an upgrade in size, but size isn't everything....it's a given there isn't any one trait that is everything....but by god i'll take a fast guy over everything else. speed neutralizes almost any trait you can have on the football field...if you're stronger than me I can get around you and beat you to the point of contact with speed. if i generate enough speed I can counteract your size and weight, that was my claim to fame being a physical cb that was relatively light in the butt. if i'm still learning the plays can be slow before i go because when i go i can outrun everyone or at least catch up to everyone....speed does matter and makes a huge difference....having speed takes 2yd gains and makes them -2yd gains....you ask any coach they will take a guy that can move over a guy that can't.

I've seen a 4.4 40 LB @ 265lbs get beat to the edge more than once because he was out of position, his speed made up for some of it, but a a slower LB in the right position would have made the same or better play. ITS NOT EVERYTHING!

[tetoncat]

The DL looks elite. That sets up everyone else. MSU, in my opinion, looks really good on defense in 2025.

But are they fast

[tetoncat]

It isn't about being fast, it's about being faster. The main thing players need to do in the off season is get faster, stronger and improve technique. It ain't rocket surgery. MSU looks like it will be faster overall on defense next year. And the overall team speed on defense was something that was lacking last year. Obviously, they can't just insert faster players and be better. However, the players they appear to be inserting look faster. Couple that with the excellent coaching at MSU and I think it's reasonable to think the defense will be better.

The DL looks elite. That sets up everyone else. MSU, in my opinion, looks really good on defense in 2025.

Exactly my point. I stated they need to get faster as we got leveraged at times. the young dbs while fast, need to get stronger and mature up...the new safeties need to learn our system and prove they can be as good as the players from last year.....every unit has something they need to work on...i agree we will be good on defense this year.

Is speed at LB more important in a 4 2 5 defense than a typical 4 3. Seems with the 2 LB they are asked to go more side to side.

[Joe Bobcat]

fast doesn't mean ****** if your out of position or taking bad angles or even getting bottled up on blocks. Daly does all 3 well, Grebe needs some work but he's usually in the right spot, but he take poor angles and has trouble getting off blocks.... he's also a true freshman so I'll cut him so slack because he played well the majority of the year.

We could always use an upgrade in speed, but speed isn't everything.

actually being fast does mean **** if you are out of position because when you are out of position your speed makes up for it and will allow you to make plays even when out of position. if you take a bad angle, if you're fast then you can over come that bad angel because of your speed. if you diagnose plays slow you can get there at the same time as the guy who diagnoses quick but is slower than you because you are fast....being fast makes up for tons of deficiencies. being able to do all those things isn't the easiest thing but when you can outrun the people on the other side of the ball you don't have to be great at all of those things. conversely you don't have to be fast to be good player if you possess all of those other things....it's a sliding scale.....the ones that are fast and can do all of those other things, play on Sundays.

Nothing is everything...people would love an upgrade in strength, but it isn't everything....people would love an upgrade in size, but size isn't everything....it's a given there isn't any one trait that is everything....but by god i'll take a fast guy over everything else. speed neutralizes almost any trait you can have on the football field...if you're stronger than me I can get around you and beat you to the point of contact with speed. if i generate enough speed I can counteract your size and weight, that was my claim to fame being a physical cb that was relatively light in the butt. if i'm still learning the plays can be slow before i go because when i go i can outrun everyone or at least catch up to everyone....speed does matter and makes a huge difference....having speed takes 2yd gains and makes them -2yd gains....you ask any coach they will take a guy that can move over a guy that can't.

I've seen a 4.4 40 LB @ 265lbs get beat to the edge more than once because he was out of position, his speed made up for some of it, but a a slower LB in the right position would have made the same or better play. ITS NOT EVERYTHING!

I think when BBT wrote “ it's a given there isn't any one trait that is everything...” he covered the idea that speed isn’t everything.