Choate vs Vigen

[technoCat]

This should start a good fight!

MSU vs UM&EWU

MSU’s two biggest nemeses(?) over the years.
Combined record:
Choate 4-3 (4-0 vs UM; 0-3 vs EWU)
Vigen 5-2 (4-0 vs EWU; 1-2 vs UM)

Who’s better?

UPDATE:
Choate 4-3 (4-0 vs UM; 0-3 vs EWU)
Vigen 6-2 (2-2 vs UM; 4-0 vs EWU)

I don't hold this against Choate, but Vigen also has two NC appearances and is sticking around for a fifth season.

You should probably include NDSU in this.
Choate 4-5 (4-0 vs UM; 0-3 vs EWU; *0-2 vs NDSU) (also 0-2 vs SDSU)
Vigen 6-5 (2-2 vs UM; 4-0 vs EWU; **0-3 vs. NDSU) (also 1-2 vs SDSU)

*had to go on the road(NDSU at home) in the playoffs
**got them twice on a neutral field and once at home

Choate was always on an upward trajectory. Would have been interesting to see what a year 5 would have looked like. Vigen has been a bit of a roller coaster in my mind.

[4KornerKat]

Choate was definitely moving the right direction, but at the same time, Choate was 28-22 overall, Vigen is 47-10.

Only losses to teams not included above were to Idaho, Oregon State, and Wyoming. Might be a pretty boring rollercoaster.

[coloradocat]

What a strange conversation to be having in 2025.

[technoCat]

Choate was definitely moving the right direction, but at the same time, Choate was 28-22 overall, Vigen is 47-10.

Only losses to teams not included above were to Idaho, Oregon State, and Wyoming. Might be a pretty boring rollercoaster.

Oh, come on. You have to admit this argument is a little disingenuous. Choate took over a team that won 5 games the year previous and started worse but improved every year. Vigen took over an 11 win semifinal team and did better, then worse, then worse, then way better. That is what I mean by rollercoaster.

[4KornerKat]

Choate was definitely moving the right direction, but at the same time, Choate was 28-22 overall, Vigen is 47-10.

Only losses to teams not included above were to Idaho, Oregon State, and Wyoming. Might be a pretty boring rollercoaster.

Oh, come on. You have to admit this argument is a little disingenuous. Choate took over a team that won 5 games the year previous and started worse but improved every year. Vigen took over an 11 win semifinal team and did better, then worse, then worse, then way better. That is what I mean by rollercoaster.

I'd argue that with the exception of Idaho last year and maybe NDSU this year, Vigen has won the games he's "supposed" to win.

The last year he was closer, but there was certainly some wins where Choate's teams overperformed, and some losses where they underperformed. I guess in my mind that's more of a rollercoaster.

I do understand what you are saying for the year to year.

[AFCAT]

Choate was definitely moving the right direction, but at the same time, Choate was 28-22 overall, Vigen is 47-10.

Only losses to teams not included above were to Idaho, Oregon State, and Wyoming. Might be a pretty boring rollercoaster.

Oh, come on. You have to admit this argument is a little disingenuous. Choate took over a team that won 5 games the year previous and started worse but improved every year. Vigen took over an 11 win semifinal team and did better, then worse, then worse, then way better. That is what I mean by rollercoaster.

I'm not sure what you mean by worse, then worse. Are you writing about the playoffs, because his record wasn't worse the second year and he won a conference title?

[JoeCatsJoe]

This should start a good fight!

MSU vs UM&EWU

MSU’s two biggest nemeses(?) over the years.
Combined record:
Choate 4-3 (4-0 vs UM; 0-3 vs EWU)
Vigen 5-2 (4-0 vs EWU; 1-2 vs UM)

Who’s better?

UPDATE:
Choate 4-3 (4-0 vs UM; 0-3 vs EWU)
Vigen 6-2 (2-2 vs UM; 4-0 vs EWU)

I don't hold this against Choate, but Vigen also has two NC appearances and is sticking around for a fifth season.

You should probably include NDSU in this.
Choate 4-5 (4-0 vs UM; 0-3 vs EWU; 0-2 vs NDSU) (also 0-2 vs SDSU)
Vigen 6-5 (2-2 vs UM; 4-0 vs EWU; 0-3 vs. NDSU) (also 1-2 vs SDSU)

Well, haha, I was just trying to start a fight. I think if I was trying to put everyone into a deep depression, I would've started with those.

The positive is I think MSU totally turned the corner vs. EWU (they actually had been more dominant over MSU than UM) and UM over the past 8 years. The next step is to get past SDSU and NDSU, who despite the outcomes of games, I believe MSU has caught. Any time those three play it's a 50-50 proposition. SDSU has NDSU at home this and will probably beat them. MSU has SDSU at home this year and will probably beat them and it's kind of important that they do as they need to end the cycle of losing to NDSU/SDSU (three straight times now) when they should've probably won.

I think the top three teams in the FCS are NDSU, SDSU and MSU. I think there are two teams that are sniffing around being with those three in UCD and USD. I think UM, UIW, and a probably a couple others are a notch below those two. It's a big jump getting into that top three though.

Sorry TomCat, I just cannot say we are on their level until we actually win a natty. We are within their realm, to be sure, but we haven't beat them when it's really counted yet. If I were an NDSU or SDSU fan, I'd probably scoff at your post and say, ok dude, call me when you win the big one. As far as I'm concerned, NDSU is still by itself, SDSU is a level below, and we are the leader heads and shoulders above the rest of the pack. Winning a championship matters, and we haven't climbed that hill yet.

[VimSince03]

Choate was definitely moving the right direction, but at the same time, Choate was 28-22 overall, Vigen is 47-10.

Only losses to teams not included above were to Idaho, Oregon State, and Wyoming. Might be a pretty boring rollercoaster.

Oh, come on. You have to admit this argument is a little disingenuous. Choate took over a team that won 5 games the year previous and started worse but improved every year. Vigen took over an 11 win semifinal team and did better, then worse, then worse, then way better. That is what I mean by rollercoaster.

I'm not sure what you mean by worse, then worse. Are you writing about the playoffs, because his record wasn't worse the second year and he won a conference title?

Just for reference, Choate had a pretty good 2019 team. We were in Year 4 of the rebuild and he was still rolling out Troy Andersen at QB. We then lose at home to Sac State (who was great that year) and lost the UND game in Grand Forks where we were clearly more talented but it was just a miserable performance and you can argue it was mostly on the coaching staff as that gameplan on offense was something else. I still can't believe we lost that game on a blocked punt touchdown with 4 minutes to go in the 4th. Then Choate rallied the troops and won a big game at UC Davis which was a bubble playoff team that year. He then goes and stomps the Griz without Troy and the UND game is a distant memory. We then roll through two playoff games and feel like we have a shot at NDSU...and we get stomped (but again no Troy really that day). To me that is about as rollercoaster as you get as that season started strong. Tucker Rovig was the most "developed" QB Choate ever had and the results were okay. Tucker was an average Big Sky QB by the time his career was over but he was a backup going into 2019.

As for what it would've looked like if there was a season in 2020, Choate was ready to roll with Matt McKay, Troy was supposedly going to be moved back to LB (but you just know they would've used him on offense again), and Tommy was a true freshman playing special teams without a true position. Vigen then takes over in 2021 and we see what Matt McKay can/can't do and Brent makes the gutsy decision to start Tommy at QB. Well...sorry it was probably actually Choate who made that decision because its his recruit, not Vigens so Jeff telepathically got into Brent's head and told him to start Tommy. I guess here is my point with this comparison...there is just so little we have to worry about as fans with Brent Vigen coaching our team. There are so many tiny details that don't go awry with him coaching and that is where Jeff struggled the most as a head coach. For as detailed of a guy he was, he had clear blind spots that never really got corrected. Jeff is an incredible culture builder and he gets people to follow him. But Brent has done the same damn thing and there are still narratives in this fanbase who think Jeff is better than Brent because we still were playing with Jeff's recruits in 2024 AND Brent hasn't beaten the Griz in Missoula (despite beating them at home by an average margin of victory of 29 points). Hope everyone realizes Jeff would have won EVEN LESS games if Troy Andersen couldn't just out run everyone at QB!

[BelligerentBobcat]

Choate was definitely moving the right direction, but at the same time, Choate was 28-22 overall, Vigen is 47-10.

Only losses to teams not included above were to Idaho, Oregon State, and Wyoming. Might be a pretty boring rollercoaster.

Oh, come on. You have to admit this argument is a little disingenuous. Choate took over a team that won 5 games the year previous and started worse but improved every year. Vigen took over an 11 win semifinal team and did better, then worse, then worse, then way better. That is what I mean by rollercoaster.

I'm not sure what you mean by worse, then worse. Are you writing about the playoffs, because his record wasn't worse the second year and he won a conference title?

Just for reference, Choate had a pretty good 2019 team. We were in Year 4 of the rebuild and he was still rolling out Troy Andersen at QB. We then lose at home to Sac State (who was great that year) and lost the UND game in Grand Forks where we were clearly more talented but it was just a miserable performance and you can argue it was mostly on the coaching staff as that gameplan on offense was something else. I still can't believe we lost that game on a blocked punt touchdown with 4 minutes to go in the 4th. Then Choate rallied the troops and won a big game at UC Davis which was a bubble playoff team that year. He then goes and stomps the Griz without Troy and the UND game is a distant memory. We then roll through two playoff games and feel like we have a shot at NDSU...and we get stomped (but again no Troy really that day). To me that is about as rollercoaster as you get as that season started strong. Tucker Rovig was the most "developed" QB Choate ever had and the results were okay. Tucker was an average Big Sky QB by the time his career was over but he was a backup going into 2019.

As for what it would've looked like if there was a season in 2020, Choate was ready to roll with Matt McKay, Troy was supposedly going to be moved back to LB (but you just know they would've used him on offense again), and Tommy was a true freshman playing special teams without a true position. Vigen then takes over in 2021 and we see what Matt McKay can/can't do and Brent makes the gutsy decision to start Tommy at QB. Well...sorry it was probably actually Choate who made that decision because its his recruit, not Vigens so Jeff telepathically got into Brent's head and told him to start Tommy. I guess here is my point with this comparison...there is just so little we have to worry about as fans with Brent Vigen coaching our team. There are so many tiny details that don't go awry with him coaching and that is where Jeff struggled the most as a head coach. For as detailed of a guy he was, he had clear blind spots that never really got corrected. Jeff is an incredible culture builder and he gets people to follow him. But Brent has done the same damn thing and there are still narratives in this fanbase who think Jeff is better than Brent because we still were playing with Jeff's recruits in 2024 AND Brent hasn't beaten the Griz in Missoula (despite beating them at home by an average margin of victory of 29 points). Hope everyone realizes Jeff would have won EVEN LESS games if Troy Andersen couldn't just out run everyone at QB!

Yeah, but the diamond formation!

[MSU01]

Just for reference, Choate had a pretty good 2019 team. We were in Year 4 of the rebuild and he was still rolling out Troy Andersen at QB. We then lose at home to Sac State (who was great that year) and lost the UND game in Grand Forks where we were clearly more talented but it was just a miserable performance and you can argue it was mostly on the coaching staff as that gameplan on offense was something else. I still can't believe we lost that game on a blocked punt touchdown with 4 minutes to go in the 4th. Then Choate rallied the troops and won a big game at UC Davis which was a bubble playoff team that year. He then goes and stomps the Griz without Troy and the UND game is a distant memory. We then roll through two playoff games and feel like we have a shot at NDSU...and we get stomped (but again no Troy really that day). To me that is about as rollercoaster as you get as that season started strong. Tucker Rovig was the most "developed" QB Choate ever had and the results were okay. Tucker was an average Big Sky QB by the time his career was over but he was a backup going into 2019.

As for what it would've looked like if there was a season in 2020, Choate was ready to roll with Matt McKay, Troy was supposedly going to be moved back to LB (but you just know they would've used him on offense again), and Tommy was a true freshman playing special teams without a true position. Vigen then takes over in 2021 and we see what Matt McKay can/can't do and Brent makes the gutsy decision to start Tommy at QB. Well...sorry it was probably actually Choate who made that decision because its his recruit, not Vigens so Jeff telepathically got into Brent's head and told him to start Tommy. I guess here is my point with this comparison...there is just so little we have to worry about as fans with Brent Vigen coaching our team. There are so many tiny details that don't go awry with him coaching and that is where Jeff struggled the most as a head coach. For as detailed of a guy he was, he had clear blind spots that never really got corrected. Jeff is an incredible culture builder and he gets people to follow him. But Brent has done the same damn thing and there are still narratives in this fanbase who think Jeff is better than Brent because we still were playing with Jeff's recruits in 2024 AND Brent hasn't beaten the Griz in Missoula (despite beating them at home by an average margin of victory of 29 points). Hope everyone realizes Jeff would have won EVEN LESS games if Troy Andersen couldn't just out run everyone at QB!

MSU announced in June of 2020 that Troy was going to sit out that season and redshirt due to injury. Of course, the season ended up being cancelled shortly thereafter.

[VimSince03]

Just for reference, Choate had a pretty good 2019 team. We were in Year 4 of the rebuild and he was still rolling out Troy Andersen at QB. We then lose at home to Sac State (who was great that year) and lost the UND game in Grand Forks where we were clearly more talented but it was just a miserable performance and you can argue it was mostly on the coaching staff as that gameplan on offense was something else. I still can't believe we lost that game on a blocked punt touchdown with 4 minutes to go in the 4th. Then Choate rallied the troops and won a big game at UC Davis which was a bubble playoff team that year. He then goes and stomps the Griz without Troy and the UND game is a distant memory. We then roll through two playoff games and feel like we have a shot at NDSU...and we get stomped (but again no Troy really that day). To me that is about as rollercoaster as you get as that season started strong. Tucker Rovig was the most "developed" QB Choate ever had and the results were okay. Tucker was an average Big Sky QB by the time his career was over but he was a backup going into 2019.

As for what it would've looked like if there was a season in 2020, Choate was ready to roll with Matt McKay, Troy was supposedly going to be moved back to LB (but you just know they would've used him on offense again), and Tommy was a true freshman playing special teams without a true position. Vigen then takes over in 2021 and we see what Matt McKay can/can't do and Brent makes the gutsy decision to start Tommy at QB. Well...sorry it was probably actually Choate who made that decision because its his recruit, not Vigens so Jeff telepathically got into Brent's head and told him to start Tommy. I guess here is my point with this comparison...there is just so little we have to worry about as fans with Brent Vigen coaching our team. There are so many tiny details that don't go awry with him coaching and that is where Jeff struggled the most as a head coach. For as detailed of a guy he was, he had clear blind spots that never really got corrected. Jeff is an incredible culture builder and he gets people to follow him. But Brent has done the same damn thing and there are still narratives in this fanbase who think Jeff is better than Brent because we still were playing with Jeff's recruits in 2024 AND Brent hasn't beaten the Griz in Missoula (despite beating them at home by an average margin of victory of 29 points). Hope everyone realizes Jeff would have won EVEN LESS games if Troy Andersen couldn't just out run everyone at QB!

MSU announced in June of 2020 that Troy was going to sit out that season and redshirt due to injury. Of course, the season ended up being cancelled shortly thereafter.

Sorry meant to make note that the goal was to use him at LB when he returned from injury.

[aucat]

I really think that the 2025 season will go a long way towards defining just how great the Vigen coaching record will be.
The thing that everyone will never forget about Choate is the fact that he was the "griz-slayer" and he won in Missoula not once but twice.
Next year Vigen will get to flat out coach his butt off as he puts together a team without Tommy Mellott, plus he opens with Oregon, then SDSU, and of course, he gets to make his third trip to Missoula.

[Cataholic]

I haven’t followed this thread very closely as it doesn’t make much sense to me, but this article just came up regarding Choate’s recruiting class this year. Yikes…. Underwhelming. I think even MSU fans would be underwhelmed with this class.

https://nevadasportsnet.com/sports/wolf ... pring-camp

This is the group coming in for spring camp, but does not impress.

[TomCat88]

I really think that the 2025 season will go a long way towards defining just how great the Vigen coaching record will be.
The thing that everyone will never forget about Choate is the fact that he was the "griz-slayer" and he won in Missoula not once but twice.
Next year Vigen will get to flat out coach his butt off as he puts together a team without Tommy Mellott, plus he opens with Oregon, then SDSU, and of course, he gets to make his third trip to Missoula.

I thought he did a good (defining) job in 2022. I thought that was his worst team of the four, yet he completely rebuilt the OL and then went all the way to the semis after getting a good seed with the aid of squeaking out a pair of wins over EWU and NAU on the road. I don't really think the outcome of the Oregon game will have much of an impact on defining him as a coach. Based on what he did in 2022, I don't expect he will ever not have MSU ready for a season and have it at least readied for a semifinal appearance, and if that's at home, I'd expect to see MSU in the title game.

[aucat]

I really think that the 2025 season will go a long way towards defining just how great the Vigen coaching record will be.
The thing that everyone will never forget about Choate is the fact that he was the "griz-slayer" and he won in Missoula not once but twice.
Next year Vigen will get to flat out coach his butt off as he puts together a team without Tommy Mellott, plus he opens with Oregon, then SDSU, and of course, he gets to make his third trip to Missoula.

I thought he did a good (defining) job in 2022. I thought that was his worst team of the four, yet he completely rebuilt the OL and then went all the way to the semis after getting a good seed with the aid of squeaking out a pair of wins over EWU and NAU on the road. I don't really think the outcome of the Oregon game will have much of an impact on defining him as a coach. Based on what he did in 2022, I don't expect he will ever not have MSU ready for a season and have it at least readied for a semifinal appearance, and if that's at home, I'd expect to see MSU in the title game.

I agree with you that the Oregon game will not have that much of an impact, though remember that this year's Oregon team only beat Idaho by 24`14. That was an impressive performance by Idaho, so it would be great if we could do something similar rather than the 77-3 score (or whatever it was) when we played at Texas A&M. I think Coach Vigen has a big challenge in front of him but I'm also confident that he is up to the task and will field a very good team in 2025.

[AFCAT]

I really think that the 2025 season will go a long way towards defining just how great the Vigen coaching record will be.
The thing that everyone will never forget about Choate is the fact that he was the "griz-slayer" and he won in Missoula not once but twice.
Next year Vigen will get to flat out coach his butt off as he puts together a team without Tommy Mellott, plus he opens with Oregon, then SDSU, and of course, he gets to make his third trip to Missoula.

I thought he did a good (defining) job in 2022. I thought that was his worst team of the four, yet he completely rebuilt the OL and then went all the way to the semis after getting a good seed with the aid of squeaking out a pair of wins over EWU and NAU on the road. I don't really think the outcome of the Oregon game will have much of an impact on defining him as a coach. Based on what he did in 2022, I don't expect he will ever not have MSU ready for a season and have it at least readied for a semifinal appearance, and if that's at home, I'd expect to see MSU in the title game.

I agree with you that the Oregon game will not have that much of an impact, though remember that this year's Oregon team only beat Idaho by 24`14. That was an impressive performance by Idaho, so it would be great if we could do something similar rather than the 77-3 score (or whatever it was) when we played at Texas A&M. I think Coach Vigen has a big challenge in front of him but I'm also confident that he is up to the task and will field a very good team in 2025.

You must be thinking of a different team. Texas A&M has only played the Bobcats once and that was in 2007 and the score was 38-7.

[BelligerentBobcat]

I really think that the 2025 season will go a long way towards defining just how great the Vigen coaching record will be.
The thing that everyone will never forget about Choate is the fact that he was the "griz-slayer" and he won in Missoula not once but twice.
Next year Vigen will get to flat out coach his butt off as he puts together a team without Tommy Mellott, plus he opens with Oregon, then SDSU, and of course, he gets to make his third trip to Missoula.

I thought he did a good (defining) job in 2022. I thought that was his worst team of the four, yet he completely rebuilt the OL and then went all the way to the semis after getting a good seed with the aid of squeaking out a pair of wins over EWU and NAU on the road. I don't really think the outcome of the Oregon game will have much of an impact on defining him as a coach. Based on what he did in 2022, I don't expect he will ever not have MSU ready for a season and have it at least readied for a semifinal appearance, and if that's at home, I'd expect to see MSU in the title game.

I agree with you that the Oregon game will not have that much of an impact, though remember that this year's Oregon team only beat Idaho by 24`14. That was an impressive performance by Idaho, so it would be great if we could do something similar rather than the 77-3 score (or whatever it was) when we played at Texas A&M. I think Coach Vigen has a big challenge in front of him but I'm also confident that he is up to the task and will field a very good team in 2025.

That game had more to do with Oregon not showing up than Idaho playing extremely well, although Idaho did play well.

[aucat]

I don’t know where I came up with thinking TAM scored 77 in that game. Brain fart I guess

[profisme]

I really think that the 2025 season will go a long way towards defining just how great the Vigen coaching record will be.
The thing that everyone will never forget about Choate is the fact that he was the "griz-slayer" and he won in Missoula not once but twice.
Next year Vigen will get to flat out coach his butt off as he puts together a team without Tommy Mellott, plus he opens with Oregon, then SDSU, and of course, he gets to make his third trip to Missoula.

I thought he did a good (defining) job in 2022. I thought that was his worst team of the four, yet he completely rebuilt the OL and then went all the way to the semis after getting a good seed with the aid of squeaking out a pair of wins over EWU and NAU on the road. I don't really think the outcome of the Oregon game will have much of an impact on defining him as a coach. Based on what he did in 2022, I don't expect he will ever not have MSU ready for a season and have it at least readied for a semifinal appearance, and if that's at home, I'd expect to see MSU in the title game.

I agree with you that the Oregon game will not have that much of an impact, though remember that this year's Oregon team only beat Idaho by 24`14. That was an impressive performance by Idaho, so it would be great if we could do something similar rather than the 77-3 score (or whatever it was) when we played at Texas A&M. I think Coach Vigen has a big challenge in front of him but I'm also confident that he is up to the task and will field a very good team in 2025.

You must be thinking of a different team. Texas A&M has only played the Bobcats once and that was in 2007 and the score was 38-7.

That was when they had Javorskie Lane as their RB. He was a LOAD.

[technoCat]

I don’t know where I came up with thinking TAM scored 77 in that game. Brain fart I guess

Was that the Florida score against Emmit Smith?