Realignment

[damnyoutuesday]

I would guess they'll invite New Mexico State and UTEP before they even begin to consider calling up the Montana schools or Dakota States

Bozeman growing at the rate it is might give us a boost

[AFCAT]

Man, there hasn’t been a move up thread since July 1st. What took so long?

Man give it a rest. Everyone here know that if it were up to you the Cats would still be NAIA, playing in Reno H. Sales and getting its butt kicked every year by the griz. This isn't a "we should move up" thread. This is significant news that has a real possibility of changing the landscape of where the Montana schools call their conference home.

Everyone knows? I didn't realize my posts were taken to heart like that. That's awesome! Way to exaggerate my position though.

And the bolded part would be moving up, right?

[kmax]

Man, there hasn’t been a move up thread since July 1st. What took so long?

Man give it a rest. Everyone here know that if it were up to you the Cats would still be NAIA, playing in Reno H. Sales and getting its butt kicked every year by the griz. This isn't a "we should move up" thread. This is significant news that has a real possibility of changing the landscape of where the Montana schools call their conference home.

Everyone knows? I don't realize my posts were taken to heart like that. That's awesome! Way to exaggerate my position though.

And the bolded part would be moving up, right?

I'm not gonna get in on the squabble, some like the idea of moving up some don't. But I will say that bolded part is not wrong and is very relevant to MSU. Even if MSU/UM don't move up. Better than decent chance some FCS does as a part of this. Could be the Dakotas and that effect leaves MSU/UM kind of alone at the top of FCS. Could be Sac and UC Davis, which greatly changes the look of the Big Sky for us. A whole lot of change potentially coming once again as the merry go round starts up for another spin here.

[AFCAT]

Man, there hasn’t been a move up thread since July 1st. What took so long?

Man give it a rest. Everyone here know that if it were up to you the Cats would still be NAIA, playing in Reno H. Sales and getting its butt kicked every year by the griz. This isn't a "we should move up" thread. This is significant news that has a real possibility of changing the landscape of where the Montana schools call their conference home.

Exaggerate much

Eh, I'd say exaggerate a little. AFCAT does like to Grampa Simpson this topic.

Actually, I'm just making fun of this subject since it seems to come up every few months for years now. But, I do like to be grumpy early in the morning, especially before I have my coffee.

[MSU01]

I would guess they'll invite New Mexico State and UTEP before they even begin to consider calling up the Montana schools or Dakota States

Bozeman growing at the rate it is might give us a boost

The MWC will still have 8 football members left after the four leave, but the Pac-12 still needs two more teams to get up to the 8-team minimum for a FBS conference. If the Pac-12 eventually takes two more current MWC teams to get up to 8, then the MWC would need more than just NMSU and UTEP especially for non-football sports where they don't have Hawaii like they do for football.

I wonder if Stanford and Cal are beginning to rethink their decision to join the ACC, as the new Pac-12 will be a pretty decent conference and a hell of a lot more geographically concentrated than having to fly out to the east coast for all your road trips.

[ClowderUp]

UC Davis is the best choice for PACXX out the BSC. I think it's an actual possibility. The three including Idaho, MSU and UM are next, but more likely to the MWC. Just one man's opinion.

[coloradocat]

I'm just going to go ahead and take this as confirmation that it's happening.

[kennethnoisewater]

We used to talk about stadium capacity and attendance all the time when a conversation about moving up started...is that still a factor or do they let that slide now? Obviously nobody's mentioning Portland State even though they're in a bigger market...and I'm sure it's more than just attendance with them. But Sac St, Davis, NAU get tossed around as possibilities...is stadium/attendance a prohibiting factor?

[CelticCat]

We used to talk about stadium capacity and attendance all the time when a conversation about moving up started...is that still a factor or do they let that slide now? Obviously nobody's mentioning Portland State even though they're in a bigger market...and I'm sure it's more than just attendance with them. But Sac St, Davis, NAU get tossed around as possibilities...is stadium/attendance a prohibiting factor?

PSU doesn't even have their own stadium anymore. Their shared stadium is 20 miles out of town for crying out loud.

I just want to be in a level of football with other schools who take it seriously. We are in a subdivision with schools, entire conferences that don't even offer scholarships or participate in the playoffs.

Maybe I am getting too big for "our" britches but to me MSU just feels more "big time" than it does "small time". This wasn't the case 10-15 years ago when the FCS still had programs like App State, Georgia Southern, JMU, etc. and MSU was lucky to get 15k in the stands. It felt like we were where we were supposed to be, with our peers on a national level. The landscape has changed, the trajectory of MSU as an institution, a football program, and the city of Bozeman has changed pretty drastically since 2010. This isn't your Dad's MSU anymore.

[Norsky19]

More than just the MWC possibly adding. The PAC will still need to find two more. Could they convince Cal and Stanford to come back and not have to deal with all that cross country travel? If not then likely two more MWC leaving also eventually. Opens up more chance western FCS teams could be fielding calls from the MWC.

It seems like the PAC should be looking at either Utah State or one of the Nevada schools to grab more media markets, even if the teams aren't good. I also wonder if they'll grab NMSU/UTEP out from under the MWC.

As far as getting Cal/Stanford to come back, are those schools locked in to the ACC to the same degree FSU is? If so, they're probably stuck there until all the legal issues get resolved and probably wouldn't want to be associated with a bunch of "state" schools anyway. Their self respect trumps travel.

My guess is they try to add Utah St. and UNLV for the Vegas market.

[kennethnoisewater]

We used to talk about stadium capacity and attendance all the time when a conversation about moving up started...is that still a factor or do they let that slide now? Obviously nobody's mentioning Portland State even though they're in a bigger market...and I'm sure it's more than just attendance with them. But Sac St, Davis, NAU get tossed around as possibilities...is stadium/attendance a prohibiting factor?

PSU doesn't even have their own stadium anymore. Their shared stadium is 20 miles out of town for crying out loud.

I just want to be in a level of football with other schools who take it seriously. We are in a subdivision with schools, entire conferences that don't even offer scholarships or participate in the playoffs.

Maybe I am getting too big for "our" britches but to me MSU just feels more "big time" than it does "small time". This wasn't the case 10-15 years ago when the FCS still had programs like App State, Georgia Southern, JMU, etc. and MSU was lucky to get 15k in the stands. It felt like we were where we were supposed to be, with our peers on a national level. The landscape has changed, the trajectory of MSU as an institution, a football program, and the city of Bozeman has changed pretty drastically since 2010. This isn't your Dad's MSU anymore.

Agreed on all points. Seems to me the media market size is the only hangup, which makes sense. And no, I don't want to move up for the chance to possibly someday play in the Idaho Potato bowl. I just think I-AA was the second tier of college football and it was a good place for MSU to be. FCS is a clear third tier now, and MSU doesn't belong anymore. If (AND ONLY IF) there's a G-5 playoff, I think MSU belongs in that next tier. Media markets be damned.

[Travelingcat]

We used to talk about stadium capacity and attendance all the time when a conversation about moving up started...is that still a factor or do they let that slide now? Obviously nobody's mentioning Portland State even though they're in a bigger market...and I'm sure it's more than just attendance with them. But Sac St, Davis, NAU get tossed around as possibilities...is stadium/attendance a prohibiting factor?

PSU doesn't even have their own stadium anymore. Their shared stadium is 20 miles out of town for crying out loud.

I just want to be in a level of football with other schools who take it seriously. We are in a subdivision with schools, entire conferences that don't even offer scholarships or participate in the playoffs.

Maybe I am getting too big for "our" britches but to me MSU just feels more "big time" than it does "small time". This wasn't the case 10-15 years ago when the FCS still had programs like App State, Georgia Southern, JMU, etc. and MSU was lucky to get 15k in the stands. It felt like we were where we were supposed to be, with our peers on a national level. The landscape has changed, the trajectory of MSU as an institution, a football program, and the city of Bozeman has changed pretty drastically since 2010. This isn't your Dad's MSU anymore.

[Travelingcat]

If this happens and the MW decides to expand with FCS schools, I bet the Montana and Dakota schools will be left out. Sac State and Davis will get invites quicker. Reason? TV markets are much larger. It won't matter how competitive the programs are or how good the facilities are. We don't have the TV market they probably want.

People say this a lot, but I am not at all convinced that it is true. It doesn't matter whether the media market is big if nobody in the media market cares about your team. Northern Colorado is in the Denver media market. Nobody goes to their games or watches them on TV either.

Montana is a small market but MSU/Montana totally own it. Montana also growing faster than the national average, particularly in the Bozeman area. This will help put butts in seats long-term even if the team has a dry spell. We have no pro sports and no other major colleges to distract viewers. Cat-Gris is THE game in this state that people care about. People in Davis or Sacramento care about a million other different teams and sporting events.

Assuming MSU and UM split the state evenly in terms of fans, we are already about the size of the Wyoming TV market.

I would bet we have bigger actual TV audiences than Davis and Sac State-- by a lot. The last Cat-Gris game had almost 5X as many viewers in Montana as the CFB National Championship-- or, to get nerdy about the numbers, we drew CFB Championship equivalent ratings if our media market were around 5 million people. That should be attractive to the Mountain West.

https://406mtsports.com/college/big-sky ... f49c2.html

[Prodigal Cat]

We used to talk about stadium capacity and attendance all the time when a conversation about moving up started...is that still a factor or do they let that slide now? Obviously nobody's mentioning Portland State even though they're in a bigger market...and I'm sure it's more than just attendance with them. But Sac St, Davis, NAU get tossed around as possibilities...is stadium/attendance a prohibiting factor?

PSU doesn't even have their own stadium anymore. Their shared stadium is 20 miles out of town for crying out loud.

I just want to be in a level of football with other schools who take it seriously. We are in a subdivision with schools, entire conferences that don't even offer scholarships or participate in the playoffs.

Maybe I am getting too big for "our" britches but to me MSU just feels more "big time" than it does "small time". This wasn't the case 10-15 years ago when the FCS still had programs like App State, Georgia Southern, JMU, etc. and MSU was lucky to get 15k in the stands. It felt like we were where we were supposed to be, with our peers on a national level. The landscape has changed, the trajectory of MSU as an institution, a football program, and the city of Bozeman has changed pretty drastically since 2010. This isn't your Dad's MSU anymore.

I took my dad to his first game in decades a couple years back. He's a avid Cat fan and attended MSU '73 to '75. He has MS and is bound to a wheelchair among other things so its not easy to get him to a game. His first statement when I pushed him through the tunnel from the Concourse out to our seats was "whoa, this is big time".

If it wasn't for our play up FBS game the Cats first real competitive game probably wouldn't have been till Oct 12 versus Idaho. Sure ISU or UNC might pose a threat but most likely those are 20+ point victories. So almost 2 months of season would have passed before the Cats played a team of their caliber. And of the 12 games this season you can confidently say that only 4 of the FCS teams will be able to compete and have put effort and $$ into the football program. They could have put 100 up on a Maine team who will win games in the CAA. 1/2 of the games they play this season will be over before the first quarter is. That's not competitive or fun.

[kmax]

We used to talk about stadium capacity and attendance all the time when a conversation about moving up started...is that still a factor or do they let that slide now? Obviously nobody's mentioning Portland State even though they're in a bigger market...and I'm sure it's more than just attendance with them. But Sac St, Davis, NAU get tossed around as possibilities...is stadium/attendance a prohibiting factor?

Based on last year's attendance figures on a per game basis MSU would be better than 5 existing MW schools and within ~5,000 of all but two others(both of which are leaving). UM would be fourth in MW attendance and with the departures would essentially lead the MW in attendance. Davis would be the bottom of attendance figures in MW and NAU even further back. Sac St would be second to last, only ahead of Hawaii. But I am pretty sure the attendance requirements have been pretty well removed or invalidated. Recent move up teams like Sam Houston have attendance figures south of 10k so it can't be being enforced if still there.

So from a standpoint of what makes the most sense for a conference to invite, is it big media market or school that has a strong program? I know that the conventional thought is go for the media market. But the Big Sky proved in the 90s and 00s that going with under supported programs in big media markets is not the way to build a stronger conference. Imagine the strength of the Big Sky if they take NDSU and SDSU in the mid 00s when they moved up instead of insisting on getting into the Denver media market with UNC.

[tetoncat]

If this happens and the MW decides to expand with FCS schools, I bet the Montana and Dakota schools will be left out. Sac State and Davis will get invites quicker. Reason? TV markets are much larger. It won't matter how competitive the programs are or how good the facilities are. We don't have the TV market they probably want.

Do they base markets on popution size versus viewership. Seems as if you dont have good facilities, programs or game attendance, viewership would be pkkr which drives the ad revenue. Sac and Davis also share the viewership with othe large programs as well as pro teams. Curious how the conferences and networks loon at that.

[BleedingBLue]

I'm definitely in the minority here, but moving up isn't at all enticing to me. The only way it would be, is if, as Kenneth said, there is a G5 playoff. In which case it's a "move up" today, but we'd be right back where we were in the 90s and 2000s, playing against a bunch of former FCS schools. The added benefit would be competing against teams that have been FBS for a long time but got left behind. You can bet your butt the CFP is a Power 4 only playoff if the G5 adds their own playoff. The Power 4 doesn't need the G5 at all. We wouldn't have to worry about attendance numbers either because we wouldn't be going 10-2 every year and fighting for a playoff spot, at least not for awhile.

[thisnamesucks]

https://knightnewhousedata.org/fbs/mwc

Upping the AD revenue (by double it looks like to me) would be one of the major issues to be competitive at the MW level.

MW TV deal is $3.5 million per team so most of the increase is going to have to come from raising prices I would assume?

[RobertCats]

We used to talk about stadium capacity and attendance all the time when a conversation about moving up started...is that still a factor or do they let that slide now? Obviously nobody's mentioning Portland State even though they're in a bigger market...and I'm sure it's more than just attendance with them. But Sac St, Davis, NAU get tossed around as possibilities...is stadium/attendance a prohibiting factor?

PSU doesn't even have their own stadium anymore. Their shared stadium is 20 miles out of town for crying out loud.

I just want to be in a level of football with other schools who take it seriously. We are in a subdivision with schools, entire conferences that don't even offer scholarships or participate in the playoffs.

Maybe I am getting too big for "our" britches but to me MSU just feels more "big time" than it does "small time". This wasn't the case 10-15 years ago when the FCS still had programs like App State, Georgia Southern, JMU, etc. and MSU was lucky to get 15k in the stands. It felt like we were where we were supposed to be, with our peers on a national level. The landscape has changed, the trajectory of MSU as an institution, a football program, and the city of Bozeman has changed pretty drastically since 2010. This isn't your Dad's MSU anymore.

I took my dad to his first game in decades a couple years back. He's a avid Cat fan and attended MSU '73 to '75. He has MS and is bound to a wheelchair among other things so its not easy to get him to a game. His first statement when I pushed him through the tunnel from the Concourse out to our seats was "whoa, this is big time".

If it wasn't for our play up FBS game the Cats first real competitive game probably wouldn't have been till Oct 12 versus Idaho. Sure ISU or UNC might pose a threat but most likely those are 20+ point victories. So almost 2 months of season would have passed before the Cats played a team of their caliber. And of the 12 games this season you can confidently say that only 4 of the FCS teams will be able to compete and have put effort and $$ into the football program. They could have put 100 up on a Maine team who will win games in the CAA. 1/2 of the games they play this season will be over before the first quarter is. That's not competitive or fun.

[AFCAT]

https://knightnewhousedata.org/fbs/mwc

Upping the AD revenue (by double it looks like to me) would be one of the major issues to be competitive at the MW level.

MW TV deal is $3.5 million per team so most of the increase is going to have to come from raising prices I would assume?

Raising prices for fans and raising student fees would be a major part if they want a steady revenue stream to cover all the new costs that will be coming. The fan increases would work if they continue to have winning teams, but that would be a hazard if they start losing. The student fee increases will also work, that is if they continue to keep or increase the student population. Not sure how popular student fee increases would be though. Dumb would have a major problem with student fee increases, since they don't have as many students. I'm not sure what other steady revenue streams they could tap into around here that they haven't already tried to get. Obviously, playing big money games at the start of the season will have to be done, much like some of the lower MW teams have to do every year.