Group of 5 Playoffs

[BelligerentBobcat]

A growing university is a fine thought, but Bozeman is darn near maxed out. Housing is already near impossible, but more importantly, Bozeman is going to run out of water soon if they keep on adding more people. Adding more students might be good for MSU, but it’s not necessarily good for Bozeman.

[AFCAT]

This is why I felt MSU should have been pursuing an FBS conference. The G5 schools are closer to our peer institutions and they will have their own national championship.

https://nevadasportsnet.com/newsletter- ... off-system

I have little doubt that MSU leadership has been looking at potential FBS opportunities for a while now. But there hasn't really been an opportunity to make that move yet in a way that makes any sense at all geographically with the Mountain West staying intact after the Pac-12 breakup.

A good head coach alone in the MWC makes more than the entirety of the current MSU staff. Add in extra scholarships now going up to 105 and my expectation is more programs scale back football spending instead of chasing the dream of a 12-seed and a road game in the top-level playoffs.

One revenue source that get lost in these discussions is the enrollment growth to your university. I believe the greater exposure would lead to higher enrollment. Let’s say our enrollment increases by a moderate 1,000 students. Assuming an average tuition of $14,000 (both in state and out of state average), that is $14 million in new revenue to the university. Some of that revenue should be used to fund such expenses.

What happens if the enrollment drops or the increase in enrollment doesn't happen?

That risk clearly exists. To mitigate that risk, we develop a plan to generate revenues for that potential. As an example, I believe that MSU is currently on the lower end of institutional funding for athletics. Other programs have as much as 50% of funding for athletics coming from institutional support. We don’t want this to occur, but as a backup, increasing student fees for athletics is an easy way to get it done. At a very reasonable $200 per student in the tuition fees (1.4% of tuition), we raise $3.4 million per year.

If a school like Wyoming can make it work in the G5, why couldn’t MSU?

Get it put up for a vote with the students. I'd love to see what they think. I think you are going to need more the $3.4 million a year though to make this happen.

I think a vote is a great idea. But keep in mind, the goal is to grow the university so new revenues would be the main funding source. Everyone benefits from a growing university and greater national exposure which propels other investments at the school.

I'm not sure you can use potential growth as a funding source. You will need a steady and constant funding from sources you have now, student fees and state government money being two of them. Even state government money can be sketchy in different economic and political environments and so could student fees if you drop in attendance without increasing those fees. Since um and MSU are really tied at the hip in moving up, you would have to take into consideration their economic issues as well. Does um look to be increasing their student population or would they basically have to increase student fee more than $200 per student to equal the same amount of that revenue the Cats would get?

[Cataholic]

This is why I felt MSU should have been pursuing an FBS conference. The G5 schools are closer to our peer institutions and they will have their own national championship.

https://nevadasportsnet.com/newsletter- ... off-system

I have little doubt that MSU leadership has been looking at potential FBS opportunities for a while now. But there hasn't really been an opportunity to make that move yet in a way that makes any sense at all geographically with the Mountain West staying intact after the Pac-12 breakup.

A good head coach alone in the MWC makes more than the entirety of the current MSU staff. Add in extra scholarships now going up to 105 and my expectation is more programs scale back football spending instead of chasing the dream of a 12-seed and a road game in the top-level playoffs.

One revenue source that get lost in these discussions is the enrollment growth to your university. I believe the greater exposure would lead to higher enrollment. Let’s say our enrollment increases by a moderate 1,000 students. Assuming an average tuition of $14,000 (both in state and out of state average), that is $14 million in new revenue to the university. Some of that revenue should be used to fund such expenses.

What happens if the enrollment drops or the increase in enrollment doesn't happen?

That risk clearly exists. To mitigate that risk, we develop a plan to generate revenues for that potential. As an example, I believe that MSU is currently on the lower end of institutional funding for athletics. Other programs have as much as 50% of funding for athletics coming from institutional support. We don’t want this to occur, but as a backup, increasing student fees for athletics is an easy way to get it done. At a very reasonable $200 per student in the tuition fees (1.4% of tuition), we raise $3.4 million per year.

If a school like Wyoming can make it work in the G5, why couldn’t MSU?

Get it put up for a vote with the students. I'd love to see what they think. I think you are going to need more the $3.4 million a year though to make this happen.

I think a vote is a great idea. But keep in mind, the goal is to grow the university so new revenues would be the main funding source. Everyone benefits from a growing university and greater national exposure which propels other investments at the school.

I'm not sure you can use potential growth as a funding source. You will need a steady and constant funding from sources you have now, student fees and state government money being two of them. Even state government money can be sketchy in different economic and political environments and so could student fees if you drop in attendance without increasing those fees. Since um and MSU are really tied at the hip in moving up, you would have to take into consideration their economic issues as well. Does um look to be increasing their student population or would they basically have to increase student fee more than $200 per student to equal the same amount of that revenue the Cats would get?

All good points. As with anything, there is risk associated and mitigating that risk is of key importance. I am guessing a solution with incorporate all of these elements. Did you see my post about an athletic endowment? That seems to be a safe way to go and could be a key cornerstone to a move up.

As for UM, that is a tough situation with their enrollment. I would expect to see some growth at their school as well, but they have more work to do before counting on enrollment growth. MSU has already laid the groundwork to attract more students with new facilities and degrees in demand. Maybe they need to rely more on an endowment format to move up. I am guessing Uncle Denny would spearhead that funding.

The growth of Bozeman has been unprecedented and I don’t see it slowing down anytime soon. I think growth at the university is a blip in the growth of the community right now. We are finally seeing new infrastructure being built to accommodate that growth with new apartments and subdivisions. With other communities like Boise and Spokane reaching 230,000 people, Bozeman can surely deal with growth to reach 75,000.

[tetoncat]

This is why I felt MSU should have been pursuing an FBS conference. The G5 schools are closer to our peer institutions and they will have their own national championship.

https://nevadasportsnet.com/newsletter- ... off-system

It’s still minor league and this would solidify it. Also, what happens to the bowls, but that’s secondary for me.

Look at it in high school terms. Does a Class B championship mean less to the community, players, anlumni, and fans than those who win a Class A or Class AA title?

Titles are titles as I see it and MSU would be an average at best G5 program given the talent pool and resources available compared to the annual contender in FCS they are now. Same applies for UM.

To put it in basketball terms, the G5 playoffs frankly seem like the NIT compared to the P4 having the real NCAA D1 championship. I’d rather in that case my team hoists a D2 trophy than the also-rans trophy.

You confused me. 1st you say Class B and Aa are same and titles are titles. Then you say it's like NIT and you would rather have a D2 than also ran. Wouldn't having that mid tier really be like Power 4 being AA, G5 A, FCS B, D2 C, and NAIA 6 man. It would be another tier but still it's own level with a clear championship

[PapaG]

This is why I felt MSU should have been pursuing an FBS conference. The G5 schools are closer to our peer institutions and they will have their own national championship.

https://nevadasportsnet.com/newsletter- ... off-system

It’s still minor league and this would solidify it. Also, what happens to the bowls, but that’s secondary for me.

Look at it in high school terms. Does a Class B championship mean less to the community, players, anlumni, and fans than those who win a Class A or Class AA title?

Titles are titles as I see it and MSU would be an average at best G5 program given the talent pool and resources available compared to the annual contender in FCS they are now. Same applies for UM.

To put it in basketball terms, the G5 playoffs frankly seem like the NIT compared to the P4 having the real NCAA D1 championship. I’d rather in that case my team hoists a D2 trophy than the also-rans trophy.

You confused me. 1st you say Class B and Aa are same and titles are titles. Then you say it's like NIT and you would rather have a D2 than also ran. Wouldn't having that mid tier really be like Power 4 being AA, G5 A, FCS B, D2 C, and NAIA 6 man. It would be another tier but still it's own level with a clear championship

First, I did not mean to put that emoji in my post. No clue how it happened but it did. Sorry to Cataholic.

I guess what I meant is that it’s OK to be comfortable with consistent “success” at this level of competition. My thought is that a G5 playoff is just the NIT since it’s still FBS, while an FCS title means more simply because it’s a different NCAA classification with different caliber players. I’m sure there are those who disagree with this but I like having a ceiling of a title for aspirations most seasons instead of trying to win the Sun Belt for a low seed in the also-ran FBS tournament. I’d actually prefer a bowl game against a mid-P5 team (if bowls still exist in ten years) if MSU ever does move up.

[Cataholic]

This is why I felt MSU should have been pursuing an FBS conference. The G5 schools are closer to our peer institutions and they will have their own national championship.

https://nevadasportsnet.com/newsletter- ... off-system

It’s still minor league and this would solidify it. Also, what happens to the bowls, but that’s secondary for me.

Look at it in high school terms. Does a Class B championship mean less to the community, players, anlumni, and fans than those who win a Class A or Class AA title?

Titles are titles as I see it and MSU would be an average at best G5 program given the talent pool and resources available compared to the annual contender in FCS they are now. Same applies for UM.

To put it in basketball terms, the G5 playoffs frankly seem like the NIT compared to the P4 having the real NCAA D1 championship. I’d rather in that case my team hoists a D2 trophy than the also-rans trophy.

You confused me. 1st you say Class B and Aa are same and titles are titles. Then you say it's like NIT and you would rather have a D2 than also ran. Wouldn't having that mid tier really be like Power 4 being AA, G5 A, FCS B, D2 C, and NAIA 6 man. It would be another tier but still it's own level with a clear championship

First, I did not mean to put that emoji in my post. No clue how it happened but it did. Sorry to Cataholic.

I guess what I meant is that it’s OK to be comfortable with consistent “success” at this level of competition. My thought is that a G5 playoff is just the NIT since it’s still FBS, while an FCS title means more simply because it’s a different NCAA classification with different caliber players. I’m sure there are those who disagree with this but I like having a ceiling of a title for aspirations most seasons instead of trying to win the Sun Belt for a low seed in the also-ran FBS tournament. I’d actually prefer a bowl game against a mid-P5 team (if bowls still exist in ten years) if MSU ever does move up.

I would continue to be an MSU fan if we dropped to NAIA. Success should always be our goal and I would be ecstatic for a championship no matter what level we are playing at. With that said, I would like to see us playing against our peer institutions. Mercyhurst, Northern Colorado, Portland State, Butler, etc are not peer institutions - at least on an athletic level. I take pride in our facilities, fan base and being in the top 3 attendance wise in FCS, but what a disappointment when we play schools so far behind in facilities. I was recently in Cedar City and SUU’s stadium seats 8,500. It is nice, but it looks like a high school stadium. And that are the type of schools currently in FCS. Out of 128 FCS teams, only 26 averaged more than 10,000 for the season. The majority of FCS team (More than 50%) do not average in excess of 6,000 for the season.

https://herosports.com/fcs-football-202 ... ders-bzbz/

[PapaG]

This is why I felt MSU should have been pursuing an FBS conference. The G5 schools are closer to our peer institutions and they will have their own national championship.

https://nevadasportsnet.com/newsletter- ... off-system

It’s still minor league and this would solidify it. Also, what happens to the bowls, but that’s secondary for me.

Look at it in high school terms. Does a Class B championship mean less to the community, players, anlumni, and fans than those who win a Class A or Class AA title?

Titles are titles as I see it and MSU would be an average at best G5 program given the talent pool and resources available compared to the annual contender in FCS they are now. Same applies for UM.

To put it in basketball terms, the G5 playoffs frankly seem like the NIT compared to the P4 having the real NCAA D1 championship. I’d rather in that case my team hoists a D2 trophy than the also-rans trophy.

You confused me. 1st you say Class B and Aa are same and titles are titles. Then you say it's like NIT and you would rather have a D2 than also ran. Wouldn't having that mid tier really be like Power 4 being AA, G5 A, FCS B, D2 C, and NAIA 6 man. It would be another tier but still it's own level with a clear championship

First, I did not mean to put that emoji in my post. No clue how it happened but it did. Sorry to Cataholic.

I guess what I meant is that it’s OK to be comfortable with consistent “success” at this level of competition. My thought is that a G5 playoff is just the NIT since it’s still FBS, while an FCS title means more simply because it’s a different NCAA classification with different caliber players. I’m sure there are those who disagree with this but I like having a ceiling of a title for aspirations most seasons instead of trying to win the Sun Belt for a low seed in the also-ran FBS tournament. I’d actually prefer a bowl game against a mid-P5 team (if bowls still exist in ten years) if MSU ever does move up.

I would continue to be an MSU fan if we dropped to NAIA. Success should always be our goal and I would be ecstatic for a championship no matter what level we are playing at. With that said, I would like to see us playing against our peer institutions. Mercyhurst, Northern Colorado, Portland State, Butler, etc are not peer institutions - at least on an athletic level. I take pride in our facilities, fan base and being in the top 3 attendance wise in FCS, but what a disappointment when we play schools so far behind in facilities. I was recently in Cedar City and SUU’s stadium seats 8,500. It is nice, but it looks like a high school stadium. And that are the type of schools currently in FCS. Out of 128 FCS teams, only 26 averaged more than 10,000 for the season. The majority of FCS team (More than 50%) do not average in excess of 6,000 for the season.

https://herosports.com/fcs-football-202 ... ders-bzbz/

That is a good point and I hadn’t considered it. For me, with so much uncertainty in the college football landscape, staying in this comfort zone for now and having success to further build up the program/facilities. This puts MSU in the best possible position for whatever college football looks like in 10 years.

Agree about being aligned with similar institutions, but unfortunately, we are always going to have the community college in Missoula attached to any conference move.

[Montanabob]

This is why I felt MSU should have been pursuing an FBS conference. The G5 schools are closer to our peer institutions and they will have their own national championship.

https://nevadasportsnet.com/newsletter- ... off-system

It’s still minor league and this would solidify it. Also, what happens to the bowls, but that’s secondary for me.

Look at it in high school terms. Does a Class B championship mean less to the community, players, anlumni, and fans than those who win a Class A or Class AA title?

Titles are titles as I see it and MSU would be an average at best G5 program given the talent pool and resources available compared to the annual contender in FCS they are now. Same applies for UM.

To put it in basketball terms, the G5 playoffs frankly seem like the NIT compared to the P4 having the real NCAA D1 championship. I’d rather in that case my team hoists a D2 trophy than the also-rans trophy.

You confused me. 1st you say Class B and Aa are same and titles are titles. Then you say it's like NIT and you would rather have a D2 than also ran. Wouldn't having that mid tier really be like Power 4 being AA, G5 A, FCS B, D2 C, and NAIA 6 man. It would be another tier but still it's own level with a clear championship

First, I did not mean to put that emoji in my post. No clue how it happened but it did. Sorry to Cataholic.

I guess what I meant is that it’s OK to be comfortable with consistent “success” at this level of competition. My thought is that a G5 playoff is just the NIT since it’s still FBS, while an FCS title means more simply because it’s a different NCAA classification with different caliber players. I’m sure there are those who disagree with this but I like having a ceiling of a title for aspirations most seasons instead of trying to win the Sun Belt for a low seed in the also-ran FBS tournament. I’d actually prefer a bowl game against a mid-P5 team (if bowls still exist in ten years) if MSU ever does move up.

I would continue to be an MSU fan if we dropped to NAIA. Success should always be our goal and I would be ecstatic for a championship no matter what level we are playing at. With that said, I would like to see us playing against our peer institutions. Mercyhurst, Northern Colorado, Portland State, Butler, etc are not peer institutions - at least on an athletic level. I take pride in our facilities, fan base and being in the top 3 attendance wise in FCS, but what a disappointment when we play schools so far behind in facilities. I was recently in Cedar City and SUU’s stadium seats 8,500. It is nice, but it looks like a high school stadium. And that are the type of schools currently in FCS. Out of 128 FCS teams, only 26 averaged more than 10,000 for the season. The majority of FCS team (More than 50%) do not average in excess of 6,000 for the season.

https://herosports.com/fcs-football-202 ... ders-bzbz/

Don't forget that there are many Texas high school stadiums on par or better that the top two montana school's stadiums.

[catatac]

This is why I felt MSU should have been pursuing an FBS conference. The G5 schools are closer to our peer institutions and they will have their own national championship.

https://nevadasportsnet.com/newsletter- ... off-system

It’s still minor league and this would solidify it. Also, what happens to the bowls, but that’s secondary for me.

Look at it in high school terms. Does a Class B championship mean less to the community, players, anlumni, and fans than those who win a Class A or Class AA title?

Titles are titles as I see it and MSU would be an average at best G5 program given the talent pool and resources available compared to the annual contender in FCS they are now. Same applies for UM.

To put it in basketball terms, the G5 playoffs frankly seem like the NIT compared to the P4 having the real NCAA D1 championship. I’d rather in that case my team hoists a D2 trophy than the also-rans trophy.

You confused me. 1st you say Class B and Aa are same and titles are titles. Then you say it's like NIT and you would rather have a D2 than also ran. Wouldn't having that mid tier really be like Power 4 being AA, G5 A, FCS B, D2 C, and NAIA 6 man. It would be another tier but still it's own level with a clear championship

First, I did not mean to put that emoji in my post. No clue how it happened but it did. Sorry to Cataholic.

I guess what I meant is that it’s OK to be comfortable with consistent “success” at this level of competition. My thought is that a G5 playoff is just the NIT since it’s still FBS, while an FCS title means more simply because it’s a different NCAA classification with different caliber players. I’m sure there are those who disagree with this but I like having a ceiling of a title for aspirations most seasons instead of trying to win the Sun Belt for a low seed in the also-ran FBS tournament. I’d actually prefer a bowl game against a mid-P5 team (if bowls still exist in ten years) if MSU ever does move up.

I would continue to be an MSU fan if we dropped to NAIA. Success should always be our goal and I would be ecstatic for a championship no matter what level we are playing at. With that said, I would like to see us playing against our peer institutions. Mercyhurst, Northern Colorado, Portland State, Butler, etc are not peer institutions - at least on an athletic level. I take pride in our facilities, fan base and being in the top 3 attendance wise in FCS, but what a disappointment when we play schools so far behind in facilities. I was recently in Cedar City and SUU’s stadium seats 8,500. It is nice, but it looks like a high school stadium. And that are the type of schools currently in FCS. Out of 128 FCS teams, only 26 averaged more than 10,000 for the season. The majority of FCS team (More than 50%) do not average in excess of 6,000 for the season.

https://herosports.com/fcs-football-202 ... ders-bzbz/

Don't forget that there are many Texas high school stadiums on par or better that the top two montana school's stadiums.

That might be a stretch... so say MANY are on par or better than Bobcat Stadium and Washington Grisly Stadium? Maybe not, I dunno. I did google toe biggest HS stadium in TX and it's under 20,000 capacity. Still that is crazy though!

[Montanabob]

This is why I felt MSU should have been pursuing an FBS conference. The G5 schools are closer to our peer institutions and they will have their own national championship.

https://nevadasportsnet.com/newsletter- ... off-system

It’s still minor league and this would solidify it. Also, what happens to the bowls, but that’s secondary for me.

Look at it in high school terms. Does a Class B championship mean less to the community, players, anlumni, and fans than those who win a Class A or Class AA title?

Titles are titles as I see it and MSU would be an average at best G5 program given the talent pool and resources available compared to the annual contender in FCS they are now. Same applies for UM.

To put it in basketball terms, the G5 playoffs frankly seem like the NIT compared to the P4 having the real NCAA D1 championship. I’d rather in that case my team hoists a D2 trophy than the also-rans trophy.

You confused me. 1st you say Class B and Aa are same and titles are titles. Then you say it's like NIT and you would rather have a D2 than also ran. Wouldn't having that mid tier really be like Power 4 being AA, G5 A, FCS B, D2 C, and NAIA 6 man. It would be another tier but still it's own level with a clear championship

First, I did not mean to put that emoji in my post. No clue how it happened but it did. Sorry to Cataholic.

I guess what I meant is that it’s OK to be comfortable with consistent “success” at this level of competition. My thought is that a G5 playoff is just the NIT since it’s still FBS, while an FCS title means more simply because it’s a different NCAA classification with different caliber players. I’m sure there are those who disagree with this but I like having a ceiling of a title for aspirations most seasons instead of trying to win the Sun Belt for a low seed in the also-ran FBS tournament. I’d actually prefer a bowl game against a mid-P5 team (if bowls still exist in ten years) if MSU ever does move up.

I would continue to be an MSU fan if we dropped to NAIA. Success should always be our goal and I would be ecstatic for a championship no matter what level we are playing at. With that said, I would like to see us playing against our peer institutions. Mercyhurst, Northern Colorado, Portland State, Butler, etc are not peer institutions - at least on an athletic level. I take pride in our facilities, fan base and being in the top 3 attendance wise in FCS, but what a disappointment when we play schools so far behind in facilities. I was recently in Cedar City and SUU’s stadium seats 8,500. It is nice, but it looks like a high school stadium. And that are the type of schools currently in FCS. Out of 128 FCS teams, only 26 averaged more than 10,000 for the season. The majority of FCS team (More than 50%) do not average in excess of 6,000 for the season.

https://herosports.com/fcs-football-202 ... ders-bzbz/

Don't forget that there are many Texas high school stadiums on par or better that the top two montana school's stadiums.

That might be a stretch... so say MANY are on par or better than Bobcat Stadium and Washington Grisly Stadium? Maybe not, I dunno. I did google toe biggest HS stadium in TX and it's under 20,000 capacity. Still that is crazy though!

did a quick search and found out the Frisco is home to a high school team.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the ... he-us.html