FBS move-up handwriting on the wall!

[Cataholic]

I really enjoyed watching JMU get hammered by Air Force. But to comment on the FCS "dying out." Maybe the FCS needs to consider reducing the number of teams that qualify for the national championship playoff? Instead of 24, drop it down to 16. Maybe that a 12 game schedule and drop it to 12. Anyway, this would be one way of addressing the fact that the FCS is getting smaller. I just don't think it makes any sense whatsoever to try to move up to FBS.

I don’t really see the playoffs as the problem. The biggest issue is letting any school with a pulse become an FCS member.

[Cataholic]

I used to say never move up. Then I felt only if there is a playoff system for G5 schools. This year I actually was supportive of any move to FBS before we get left behind in a FCS division with a number of schools that average less game day attendance than Montana Tech.

I think the biggest benefit of the FBS level is national exposure for the university. It creates a higher level of name recognition that can grow the university. Every school in the Mountain West has better national name recognition than a Weber State, Eastern Washington or Idaho State.

The thought struck me this morning though that our university leaders may not be interested in a move up. Why would they? The university is growing. The athletic department can “balance the books” right now. We continue to win without huge new investments in non-revenue sports. Competition at any FBS school will become dependent on NIL and TV money. Maybe our school leaders feel the risk is simply not worth the benefit? Right now, we should be winning for the next decade if we never made another investment in facilities beyond what has already been committed (including IPF).

[aucat]

Yesterday I was curious how our boy Sprinkle was doing down at Utah State so I looked them up and found that they are now 12-1, 1st place in the Mountain West. Of course "our guy" Great Osobor is averaging 22.5 points per game. As we all know Sprinkle is there because of the fact that he was offered four times what he was paid here.

But regarding moving up, unless a "name conference," like the Mountain West is interested in doing a massive increase in teams, I don't see how we could pull it off. One thing is for sure. The landscape for college football has changed dramatically in the last few years and it will continue to do so. Regarding the poor attendance of some of the Big Sky teams, I swear, I wish I could wave a magic wand and create a new FCS conference that would include both the South Dakota schools, both of the North Dakota schools, MSU and UM, Idaho, Idaho State, Weber State, Eastern Washington, Northern Arizona and Northern Colorado. I would drop Portland State and the CA schools. That would be a pretty strong conference.

[AFCAT]

Yesterday I was curious how our boy Sprinkle was doing down at Utah State so I looked them up and found that they are now 12-1, 1st place in the Mountain West. Of course "our guy" Great Osobor is averaging 22.5 points per game. As we all know Sprinkle is there because of the fact that he was offered four times what he was paid here.

But regarding moving up, unless a "name conference," like the Mountain West is interested in doing a massive increase in teams, I don't see how we could pull it off. One thing is for sure. The landscape for college football has changed dramatically in the last few years and it will continue to do so. Regarding the poor attendance of some of the Big Sky teams, I swear, I wish I could wave a magic wand and create a new FCS conference that would include both the South Dakota schools, both of the North Dakota schools, MSU and UM, Idaho, Idaho State, Weber State, Eastern Washington, Northern Arizona and Northern Colorado. I would drop Portland State and the CA schools. That would be a pretty strong conference.

I could see some of the current Mountain West teams joining a new PAC (?) conference with Washington State and Oregon State. Heck, they are already kind of doing that for next season now. The remainder of the MW schools, that weren't considered for the PAC, would then upgrade with some remaining Big Sky programs. Not a fan of that happening though.

[GoldstoneCat]

I'm fairly supportive of a move up, provided it fits. I would want to see us in a league with the teams in our region (MWC), Dakota States, etc. I'm not interested in the travel required for the sun belt or Cusa. I'm aware of the scholarship and funding challenges. But it's all kind of moot today, you can't move up without an invitation, and we don't have one. I still am hopeful there will be some sort of a split between P4 and G5 schools and that we fit somewhere in that new hierarchy.

[HiLineCat]

Choate is making $1.05 million, Sprinkle is making $900,000. Both are at the bottom of the MWC in terms of salary. Where is the money going to come from to pay all of our coaches at a competitive salary if we move up? I don't see TV money covering all the additional expenses involved with moving up.

[PapaG]

I really enjoyed watching JMU get hammered by Air Force. But to comment on the FCS "dying out." Maybe the FCS needs to consider reducing the number of teams that qualify for the national championship playoff? Instead of 24, drop it down to 16. Maybe that a 12 game schedule and drop it to 12. Anyway, this would be one way of addressing the fact that the FCS is getting smaller. I just don't think it makes any sense whatsoever to try to move up to FBS.

I don’t really see the playoffs as the problem. The biggest issue is letting any school with a pulse become an FCS member.

That’s kind of what happened in FBS that led to some absolutely abysmal programs there currently with the $5000 fee plus they allowed the attendance rule to be completely ignored/manipulated to gain eligibility.

James Madison has an 11-1 season, threatens to sue the NCAA, and gets their butts kicked by a mediocre Air Force team on both lines in the biggest FBS game they’ll likely ever play in some random bowl. Now, 7 of their best returning players are joining the coach in Indiana via portal.

Awesome future and basically what will happen now to any lesser-program FBS coach that gets some decent players, has an amazing season, and gets poached for a bigger job along with players.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/c ... 020517007/

[BgCATfan]

Yup, just waiting on that big old magic pot of money to materialize to make this really easy move up to the FBS light league.

You post this in every thread about moving up likes its a good one. It isn't. Celtic did a great job in the "moving up" thread laying out the differences between MSU and a few regional, similar institutions that operate in the MWC. Things like corporate support, media and NCAA distributions all go up at the FBS level and would carry the bulk of the heavy lifting.

https://bobcatnation.com/bobcatbb/viewt ... 45#p822897

Really with just modest boost in institutional support MSU would be a operational MW school. If we got NAU type of support along with fan support (ticket sales) they would be toward the top of the pack. So stop pedaling this myth that the money is too big of a hurdle. It isn't. Lots of schools run FBS programs with much less fan support than MSU.

And what do those schools play for ? Have any contended for a national championship?

[84CatGrad]

Just because we can does not mean we should. I will go to Frisco every time we make it. I would not be excited to go to the Pop Tarts Bowl. I would also not be excited for us to go from 40+ Montana kids to fewer than 30, or 25, or 20.

[PapaG]

Just because we can does not mean we should. I will go to Frisco every time we make it. I would not be excited to go to the Pop Tarts Bowl. I would also not be excited for us to go from 40+ Montana kids to fewer than 30, or 25, or 20.

Boise State has 16 Idaho players on their roster with at least half from the Boise metro area. If the Cats and Gris moved up together and wanted to compete for conference titles, it’s easily less than 10 MT players on each team and that’s counting those not on a two-deep.

Fun times ahead!

[Cataholic]

Yup, just waiting on that big old magic pot of money to materialize to make this really easy move up to the FBS light league.

You post this in every thread about moving up likes its a good one. It isn't. Celtic did a great job in the "moving up" thread laying out the differences between MSU and a few regional, similar institutions that operate in the MWC. Things like corporate support, media and NCAA distributions all go up at the FBS level and would carry the bulk of the heavy lifting.

https://bobcatnation.com/bobcatbb/viewt ... 45#p822897

Really with just modest boost in institutional support MSU would be a operational MW school. If we got NAU type of support along with fan support (ticket sales) they would be toward the top of the pack. So stop pedaling this myth that the money is too big of a hurdle. It isn't. Lots of schools run FBS programs with much less fan support than MSU.

And what do those schools play for ? Have any contended for a national championship?

Doesn’t the BCS move to a 12 team playoff next year? And I think the highest rated G5 team gets an automatic playoff berth.

[Berkeley_Griz]

Yup, just waiting on that big old magic pot of money to materialize to make this really easy move up to the FBS light league.

You post this in every thread about moving up likes its a good one. It isn't. Celtic did a great job in the "moving up" thread laying out the differences between MSU and a few regional, similar institutions that operate in the MWC. Things like corporate support, media and NCAA distributions all go up at the FBS level and would carry the bulk of the heavy lifting.

https://bobcatnation.com/bobcatbb/viewt ... 45#p822897

Really with just modest boost in institutional support MSU would be a operational MW school. If we got NAU type of support along with fan support (ticket sales) they would be toward the top of the pack. So stop pedaling this myth that the money is too big of a hurdle. It isn't. Lots of schools run FBS programs with much less fan support than MSU.

And what do those schools play for ? Have any contended for a national championship?

Doesn’t the BCS move to a 12 team playoff next year? And I think the highest rated G5 team gets an automatic playoff berth.

CFP, not BCS, but more importantly, if the argument is that in a once a decade magical run type season that UM/ MSU could get to be a sacrificial lamb for Alabama/ Georgia/ LSU/ Clemson/ Ohio State..... I still don't see the appeal.

[Montanabob]

why are we even having a move up discussion?
with the way NIL is going, you will $100m a year for NIL to get a mediocre football team at G5 LEVEL.

We supposedly have a top 20 something NIL program in FCS, would someone actually post a gross number for the entire football program from this or last year?

[onceacat]

why are we even having a move up discussion?
with the way NIL is going, you will $100m a year for NIL to get a mediocre football team at G5 LEVEL.

We supposedly have a top 20 something NIL program in FCS, would someone actually post a gross number for the entire football program from this or last year?

I'm quite certain that Wyoming or Nevada is a long way from $100m in NIL. Honestly, I have no idea what their totals are, but I'd be more than a little shocked if its more than a couple million.

[WalkOn79]

Yesterday I was curious how our boy Sprinkle was doing down at Utah State so I looked them up and found that they are now 12-1, 1st place in the Mountain West. Of course "our guy" Great Osobor is averaging 22.5 points per game. As we all know Sprinkle is there because of the fact that he was offered four times what he was paid here.

But regarding moving up, unless a "name conference," like the Mountain West is interested in doing a massive increase in teams, I don't see how we could pull it off. One thing is for sure. The landscape for college football has changed dramatically in the last few years and it will continue to do so. Regarding the poor attendance of some of the Big Sky teams, I swear, I wish I could wave a magic wand and create a new FCS conference that would include both the South Dakota schools, both of the North Dakota schools, MSU and UM, Idaho, Idaho State, Weber State, Eastern Washington, Northern Arizona and Northern Colorado. I would drop Portland State and the CA schools. That would be a pretty strong conference.

We had that chance but the BSC voted to not offer NDSU and SDSU when they moved up. Stupid decision at the time.

[WalkOn79]

Choate is making $1.05 million, Sprinkle is making $900,000. Both are at the bottom of the MWC in terms of salary. Where is the money going to come from to pay all of our coaches at a competitive salary if we move up? I don't see TV money covering all the additional expenses involved with moving up.

Student fees would have to be part of the package.

[Prodigal Cat]

I've come across as a staunch move up now guy. That isn't entirely accurate. My feelings are that most of the blue bloods have moved on from FBS and the current ones are looking to do the same. NDSU has made it no secret that they would go if the right invite came along and furthermore, SDSU and NDSU are teams that are like MSU and UM. Both are attached at the hip will only move if both are going. If those 2 teams go the subdivision starts to look pretty bad. Side note it would mean of the 4 teams the griz played in the post season this year, 3 of the 4 will be gone.

MSU just needs to be ready, this is my stance. Have the funding, the facilities in place to make the move. People here like to point out things like attendance in bowl games or the records of the teams involved but all of those bowl games save 1 or 2 will get significantly higher numbers of viewers than the FCS title game will. All of FBS see's FCS as being very beneath them and this championship only matters to us, the ones playing in it and paying attention. The only way they really pay attention is if you dominate ala NDSU. I asked my friend this summer who the FCS champ was, He lives in Washington and is a Husky fan, he said "NDSU right?" If someone brings up Idaho again I'll lose my sh*t. UI is the only team to move back down and there are dozens that move up and succeed like App St, Coastal Carolina, Marshall, and JMU.

In the last half decade of seasons the Big Sky has gotten more and more fractured on teams the have the resources AND are willing to invest in football. I think a few teams will rise up but none will have staying power or will of being competitive except the 2 MT schools and possibly Idaho. EWU had a good run but their facilities and fan support have faded. Sac St has been good but only 5 years ago we knew them as Suck St.

Ultimately the most important thing is the health of the University Athletic Dept and and the Student Athletes. (it's not the fans as some here have posted) Sticking around till you don't have any options is a realistic outcome. I want MSU to thrive and grow and part of that growth is risk. Sitting still can be the same as moving backwards and I want to compete with in-kind universities. I don't think Portland St, Northern Colorado, Eastern Washington or the Southern Utah's should be what we aspire to. I don't want to watch the Cat's blow out Utah tech's, Stetson's, Morehead St's. I think Colorado St, Utah St, South Dakota St, North Dakota St, Wyoming, Nevada, etc etc. Those are who the Cats should be taking the field with. I love the playoffs and if it wasn't for the xDSU's the Cats might be looking at 3 or 4 in a row.. If those guys leave there isn't much left to get excited about.

[onceacat]

Choate is making $1.05 million, Sprinkle is making $900,000. Both are at the bottom of the MWC in terms of salary. Where is the money going to come from to pay all of our coaches at a competitive salary if we move up? I don't see TV money covering all the additional expenses involved with moving up.

Student fees would have to be part of the package.

Someone already posted a link to this, but MSUs student fees are already higher than similar MWC schools. Most of the difference between the Montanas and the MWC is due to the TV contracts & state funding.

Theres a bit more in bowl contracts & booster/corporate sponsorships, but its mostly the TV money & taxpayer funding.

[aucat]

How about those "mighty" Minnesota Gophers going 5-7 and having the honor of going to the "Quick Lane " bowl....and winning over the six win Bowling Green Falcons! ( I had to google to look up the mascot for BG.) What an honor! What an accomplishment! Enjoyed by dozens in the cavernous Ford Field Dome and hundreds more yawning in front of their TV sets at home. Just think how excited we would be for the Cats to play in such a bowl game!

[AFCAT]

How about those "mighty" Minnesota Gophers going 5-7 and having the honor of going to the "Quick Lane " bowl....and winning over the six win Bowling Green Falcons! ( I had to google to look up the mascot for BG.) What an honor! What an accomplishment! Enjoyed by dozens in the cavernous Ford Field Dome and hundreds more yawning in front of their TV sets at home. Just think how excited we would be for the Cats to play in such a bowl game!

And someday it could all be ours too. Yippeee. Just need a modest boost of institutional support first.