NDSU

[The Butcher]

NDSU was handled by SDSU as expected and are now 6-3. NDSU now has Southern Illinois and Northern Iowa, both solid teams. NDSU does not have an easy path to 7 wins. Does a 6-5 NDSU team make the playoffs?

[nanacat]

NDSU was handled by SDSU as expected and are now 6-3. NDSU now has Southern Illinois and Northern Iowa, both solid teams. NDSU does not have an easy path to 7 wins. Does a 6-5 NDSU team make the playoffs?

Does the committee have a love affair with NDSU like they do with the Gris? Probably.

[onceacat]

NDSU was handled by SDSU as expected and are now 6-3. NDSU now has Southern Illinois and Northern Iowa, both solid teams. NDSU does not have an easy path to 7 wins. Does a 6-5 NDSU team make the playoffs?

Depends on what the other 7-4 options are.
But its dicey.

[GeauxCats41]

I think the fair question is: can we think of 24 teams better than NDSU right now? When we get down into the 18-24 range and we’re debating between NDSU and a team like Mercer, you can’t keep NDSU out. Much like UM last year.. a juicy home game pay day for the FCS and a watered down subdivision allows for them in at 7-4.

[GeauxCats41]

Not NDSU related but I do think it’s interesting regarding Kent’s comments and the committee’s stance on how D2 wins will now be “counted” or looked at “stronger” than in years prior. Wonder why the change of heart…

[CodyCat]

SIU apparently has no offense. A good defense (I think). But they just aren’t scoring points. NDSU will win that game.

[4KornerKat]

There should be enough 7-4 teams from MVFC to make it an easy decision to leave them out at 6-5

[Montanabob]

There should be enough 7-4 teams from MVFC to make it an easy decision to leave them out at 6-5

won't happen. they end up in top 16.

[Grizfan7]

Not NDSU related but I do think it’s interesting regarding Kent’s comments and the committee’s stance on how D2 wins will now be “counted” or looked at “stronger” than in years prior. Wonder why the change of heart…

There has not been a change of heart by the NCAA or the committee. The rules have been the same for years, and D2's have been counted (except where the rules specifically refer to D1 wins). The only thing that has changed is that people like Sam Herder and certain others have learned that what they were saying was wrong (and has been wrong).

I have an email from the committee saying: The selection criteria are "straightforward". "Division 2 games are not automatically removed from a team’s resume". However, D2 games are part of the discussion in comparing teams for selection.

This is the basic rule:

"The committee shall select the best teams available on a national at-large basis to complete the bracket. Per NCAA
Bylaw 31, the basic criteria used in the selection of at-large participants are (1) won-lost record, (2) strength of
schedule, and (3) eligibility and availability of student-athletes for the NCAA championship". See also the reference to DI games in nos. 3 and 4 below.

"Section 2•3 Selection Criteria

At-large teams shall be selected by the NCAA Division I Football Championship Committee, assisted by four regional
advisory committees that serve in an advisory capacity only.

The following principles shall apply when selecting at-large teams:

1. The committee shall select the best teams available on a national at-large basis to complete the bracket. Per NCAA Bylaw 31, the basic criteria used in the selection of at-large participants are (1) won-lost record, (2) strength of schedule, and (3) eligibility and availability of student-athletes for the NCAA championship;

2. There is no limit to the number of teams the committee may select from one conference;

3. The won-lost record of a team will be scrutinized to determine a team’s strength of schedule; however, fewer than six Division I wins may place a team in jeopardy of not being selected;

4. The committee may give more consideration to those teams that have played all Division I opponents; and

5. If a committee member’s institution is under consideration, that committee member will not be allowed in the room during discussions involving his/her team and may not vote for his/her team during the voting process. Similarly, a committee member from a conference office may not be present during discussions, nor vote for any team from his/her conference.

6. The committee will use the AFCA Coaches’ Poll and the Stats Perform FCS Top 25 Poll as a tool for evaluating teams."

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/champi ... Manual.pdf

[4KornerKat]

There should be enough 7-4 teams from MVFC to make it an easy decision to leave them out at 6-5

won't happen. they end up in top 16.

I agree it won't happen, but I think they will end 7-4 and take one of those spots. And definitely host first round game, but that's dictated more by cash than ranking.

[GeauxCats41]

Not NDSU related but I do think it’s interesting regarding Kent’s comments and the committee’s stance on how D2 wins will now be “counted” or looked at “stronger” than in years prior. Wonder why the change of heart…

There has not been a change of heart by the NCAA or the committee. The rules have been the same for years, and D2's have been counted (except where the rules specifically refer to D1 wins). The only thing that has changed is that people like Sam Herder and certain others have learned that what they were saying was wrong (and has been wrong).

I have an email from the committee saying: The selection criteria are "straightforward". "Division 2 games are not automatically removed from a team’s resume". However, D2 games are part of the discussion in comparing teams for selection.

This is the basic rule:

"The committee shall select the best teams available on a national at-large basis to complete the bracket. Per NCAA
Bylaw 31, the basic criteria used in the selection of at-large participants are (1) won-lost record, (2) strength of
schedule, and (3) eligibility and availability of student-athletes for the NCAA championship". See also the reference to DI games in nos. 3 and 4 below.

"Section 2•3 Selection Criteria

At-large teams shall be selected by the NCAA Division I Football Championship Committee, assisted by four regional
advisory committees that serve in an advisory capacity only.

The following principles shall apply when selecting at-large teams:

1. The committee shall select the best teams available on a national at-large basis to complete the bracket. Per NCAA Bylaw 31, the basic criteria used in the selection of at-large participants are (1) won-lost record, (2) strength of schedule, and (3) eligibility and availability of student-athletes for the NCAA championship;

2. There is no limit to the number of teams the committee may select from one conference;

3. The won-lost record of a team will be scrutinized to determine a team’s strength of schedule; however, fewer than six Division I wins may place a team in jeopardy of not being selected;

4. The committee may give more consideration to those teams that have played all Division I opponents; and

5. If a committee member’s institution is under consideration, that committee member will not be allowed in the room during discussions involving his/her team and may not vote for his/her team during the voting process. Similarly, a committee member from a conference office may not be present during discussions, nor vote for any team from his/her conference.

6. The committee will use the AFCA Coaches’ Poll and the Stats Perform FCS Top 25 Poll as a tool for evaluating teams."

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/champi ... Manual.pdf

Thank you for your tiresome reply. Quickly note the “looked at stronger” comment. I believe it’s fair to say the D2 win is being looked at more favorably than in years past. Maybe it’s a hunch. Maybe not.

[91catAlum]

Not NDSU related but I do think it’s interesting regarding Kent’s comments and the committee’s stance on how D2 wins will now be “counted” or looked at “stronger” than in years prior. Wonder why the change of heart…

There has not been a change of heart by the NCAA or the committee. The rules have been the same for years, and D2's have been counted (except where the rules specifically refer to D1 wins). The only thing that has changed is that people like Sam Herder and certain others have learned that what they were saying was wrong (and has been wrong).

I have an email from the committee saying: The selection criteria are "straightforward". "Division 2 games are not automatically removed from a team’s resume". However, D2 games are part of the discussion in comparing teams for selection.

This is the basic rule:

"The committee shall select the best teams available on a national at-large basis to complete the bracket. Per NCAA
Bylaw 31, the basic criteria used in the selection of at-large participants are (1) won-lost record, (2) strength of
schedule, and (3) eligibility and availability of student-athletes for the NCAA championship". See also the reference to DI games in nos. 3 and 4 below.

"Section 2•3 Selection Criteria

At-large teams shall be selected by the NCAA Division I Football Championship Committee, assisted by four regional
advisory committees that serve in an advisory capacity only.

The following principles shall apply when selecting at-large teams:

1. The committee shall select the best teams available on a national at-large basis to complete the bracket. Per NCAA Bylaw 31, the basic criteria used in the selection of at-large participants are (1) won-lost record, (2) strength of schedule, and (3) eligibility and availability of student-athletes for the NCAA championship;

2. There is no limit to the number of teams the committee may select from one conference;

3. The won-lost record of a team will be scrutinized to determine a team’s strength of schedule; however, fewer than six Division I wins may place a team in jeopardy of not being selected;

4. The committee may give more consideration to those teams that have played all Division I opponents; and

5. If a committee member’s institution is under consideration, that committee member will not be allowed in the room during discussions involving his/her team and may not vote for his/her team during the voting process. Similarly, a committee member from a conference office may not be present during discussions, nor vote for any team from his/her conference.

6. The committee will use the AFCA Coaches’ Poll and the Stats Perform FCS Top 25 Poll as a tool for evaluating teams."

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/champi ... Manual.pdf

Is it better for your resume to beat a D2 team by 7 at home, or lose to the best FCS team by 4 on the road? Should be the latter but it probably won't be.
I guess MSU should stop scheduling MVC teams and get some D2 teams back on the schedule. If the Cats played the griz non-conference schedule we'd have the same record as the griz right now.

[tetoncat]

I think the fair question is: can we think of 24 teams better than NDSU right now? When we get down into the 18-24 range and we’re debating between NDSU and a team like Mercer, you can’t keep NDSU out. Much like UM last year.. a juicy home game pay day for the FCS and a watered down subdivision allows for them in at 7-4.

Why not. If they lose 4 or 5 conference games especially the way they have they should be out. Judge this year's team and not the tradition.

[tetoncat]

Not NDSU related but I do think it’s interesting regarding Kent’s comments and the committee’s stance on how D2 wins will now be “counted” or looked at “stronger” than in years prior. Wonder why the change of heart…

There has not been a change of heart by the NCAA or the committee. The rules have been the same for years, and D2's have been counted (except where the rules specifically refer to D1 wins). The only thing that has changed is that people like Sam Herder and certain others have learned that what they were saying was wrong (and has been wrong).

I have an email from the committee saying: The selection criteria are "straightforward". "Division 2 games are not automatically removed from a team’s resume". However, D2 games are part of the discussion in comparing teams for selection.

This is the basic rule:

"The committee shall select the best teams available on a national at-large basis to complete the bracket. Per NCAA
Bylaw 31, the basic criteria used in the selection of at-large participants are (1) won-lost record, (2) strength of
schedule, and (3) eligibility and availability of student-athletes for the NCAA championship". See also the reference to DI games in nos. 3 and 4 below.

"Section 2•3 Selection Criteria

At-large teams shall be selected by the NCAA Division I Football Championship Committee, assisted by four regional
advisory committees that serve in an advisory capacity only.

The following principles shall apply when selecting at-large teams:

1. The committee shall select the best teams available on a national at-large basis to complete the bracket. Per NCAA Bylaw 31, the basic criteria used in the selection of at-large participants are (1) won-lost record, (2) strength of schedule, and (3) eligibility and availability of student-athletes for the NCAA championship;

2. There is no limit to the number of teams the committee may select from one conference;

3. The won-lost record of a team will be scrutinized to determine a team’s strength of schedule; however, fewer than six Division I wins may place a team in jeopardy of not being selected;

4. The committee may give more consideration to those teams that have played all Division I opponents; and

5. If a committee member’s institution is under consideration, that committee member will not be allowed in the room during discussions involving his/her team and may not vote for his/her team during the voting process. Similarly, a committee member from a conference office may not be present during discussions, nor vote for any team from his/her conference.

6. The committee will use the AFCA Coaches’ Poll and the Stats Perform FCS Top 25 Poll as a tool for evaluating teams."

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/champi ... Manual.pdf

Is it better for your resume to beat a D2 team by 7 at home, or lose to the best FCS team by 4 on the road? Should be the latter but it probably won't be.
I guess MSU should stop scheduling MVC teams and get some D2 teams back on the schedule. If the Cats played the griz non-conference schedule we'd have the same record as the griz right now.

And seed between the 2 will still come down to who wins the Brawl so doesn't matter.

[91catAlum]

Is it better for your resume to beat a D2 team by 7 at home, or lose to the best FCS team by 4 on the road? Should be the latter but it probably won't be.
I guess MSU should stop scheduling MVC teams and get some D2 teams back on the schedule. If the Cats played the griz non-conference schedule we'd have the same record as the griz right now.

And seed between the 2 will still come down to who wins the Brawl so doesn't matter.

It wont matter when the committee compares us to the griz, but it will matter when they compare us to teams like Furman.

[tetoncat]

Is it better for your resume to beat a D2 team by 7 at home, or lose to the best FCS team by 4 on the road? Should be the latter but it probably won't be.
I guess MSU should stop scheduling MVC teams and get some D2 teams back on the schedule. If the Cats played the griz non-conference schedule we'd have the same record as the griz right now.

And seed between the 2 will still come down to who wins the Brawl so doesn't matter.

It wont matter when the committee compares us to the griz, but it will matter when they compare us to teams like Furman.

But your comparison and complaint seem tied to D2 vs FCS comparison of Cat/Griz schedules.

[Grizfan7]

I think the fair question is: can we think of 24 teams better than NDSU right now? When we get down into the 18-24 range and we’re debating between NDSU and a team like Mercer, you can’t keep NDSU out. Much like UM last year.. a juicy home game pay day for the FCS and a watered down subdivision allows for them in at 7-4.

Why not. If they lose 4 or 5 conference games especially the way they have they should be out. Judge this year's team and not the tradition.

I agree with you generally, but the most important goal of the selection committee, and the stated goal of the selection criteria, is to select the best teams. NDSU plays in a tough conference and has shown for a long time that it is a very strong program. I don't think the committee will get hung up on records and number of losses, especially if comparing to teams from weaker conference who have had a weaker SOS. Personally, I would give some deference to NDSU. I saw judge this year's NDSU team on how good they are and whether they are better than the other bubble teams.

[Grizfan7]

Not NDSU related but I do think it’s interesting regarding Kent’s comments and the committee’s stance on how D2 wins will now be “counted” or looked at “stronger” than in years prior. Wonder why the change of heart…

There has not been a change of heart by the NCAA or the committee. The rules have been the same for years, and D2's have been counted (except where the rules specifically refer to D1 wins). The only thing that has changed is that people like Sam Herder and certain others have learned that what they were saying was wrong (and has been wrong).

I have an email from the committee saying: The selection criteria are "straightforward". "Division 2 games are not automatically removed from a team’s resume". However, D2 games are part of the discussion in comparing teams for selection.

This is the basic rule:

"The committee shall select the best teams available on a national at-large basis to complete the bracket. Per NCAA
Bylaw 31, the basic criteria used in the selection of at-large participants are (1) won-lost record, (2) strength of
schedule, and (3) eligibility and availability of student-athletes for the NCAA championship". See also the reference to DI games in nos. 3 and 4 below.

"Section 2•3 Selection Criteria

At-large teams shall be selected by the NCAA Division I Football Championship Committee, assisted by four regional
advisory committees that serve in an advisory capacity only.

The following principles shall apply when selecting at-large teams:

1. The committee shall select the best teams available on a national at-large basis to complete the bracket. Per NCAA Bylaw 31, the basic criteria used in the selection of at-large participants are (1) won-lost record, (2) strength of schedule, and (3) eligibility and availability of student-athletes for the NCAA championship;

2. There is no limit to the number of teams the committee may select from one conference;

3. The won-lost record of a team will be scrutinized to determine a team’s strength of schedule; however, fewer than six Division I wins may place a team in jeopardy of not being selected;

4. The committee may give more consideration to those teams that have played all Division I opponents; and

5. If a committee member’s institution is under consideration, that committee member will not be allowed in the room during discussions involving his/her team and may not vote for his/her team during the voting process. Similarly, a committee member from a conference office may not be present during discussions, nor vote for any team from his/her conference.

6. The committee will use the AFCA Coaches’ Poll and the Stats Perform FCS Top 25 Poll as a tool for evaluating teams."

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/champi ... Manual.pdf

Is it better for your resume to beat a D2 team by 7 at home, or lose to the best FCS team by 4 on the road? Should be the latter but it probably won't be.
I guess MSU should stop scheduling MVC teams and get some D2 teams back on the schedule. If the Cats played the griz non-conference schedule we'd have the same record as the griz right now.

It is clearly better to lose a close game to SDSU than to beat Ferris. Not even a close call. However, it is not better to beat Stetson than it is to beat the two-time national championships D2 team, which I read had more players in the NFL in recent times than either MSU or UM. I saw the UM v. Ferris game. Ferris was very good and played well. At least on that day, Ferris would have beaten all but the top handful of the Big Sky conference teams. I don't know anyone could even say that beating Ferris might be considered by the committee to be as good or better than playing SDSU in a close game. The committee would never do that.

[91catAlum]

Is it better for your resume to beat a D2 team by 7 at home, or lose to the best FCS team by 4 on the road? Should be the latter but it probably won't be.
I guess MSU should stop scheduling MVC teams and get some D2 teams back on the schedule. If the Cats played the griz non-conference schedule we'd have the same record as the griz right now.

And seed between the 2 will still come down to who wins the Brawl so doesn't matter.

It wont matter when the committee compares us to the griz, but it will matter when they compare us to teams like Furman.

But your comparison and complaint seem tied to D2 vs FCS comparison of Cat/Griz schedules.

Right but the more general point I was trying to make is that if we had played an out of conference schedule like the griz had, we'd have the chance to finish 10-1, and I wonder if that looks better to the committee. Not necessarily to put us ahead of um, but for general seeding resume comparisons. It shouldn't but it probably does.

Maybe Furman is the better example of what's bothering me. Its possible MSU beats um, finishes 9-2, and still ends up with the 4 seed with Sdsu, Idaho, and 10-1 Furman all above us - even though Furman's toughest FCS game all year was #16 WCU, whereas MSU plays the 1, 2, and 3 ranked teams (or whatever um and Idaho currently are).

[91catAlum]

Not NDSU related but I do think it’s interesting regarding Kent’s comments and the committee’s stance on how D2 wins will now be “counted” or looked at “stronger” than in years prior. Wonder why the change of heart…

There has not been a change of heart by the NCAA or the committee. The rules have been the same for years, and D2's have been counted (except where the rules specifically refer to D1 wins). The only thing that has changed is that people like Sam Herder and certain others have learned that what they were saying was wrong (and has been wrong).

I have an email from the committee saying: The selection criteria are "straightforward". "Division 2 games are not automatically removed from a team’s resume". However, D2 games are part of the discussion in comparing teams for selection.

This is the basic rule:

"The committee shall select the best teams available on a national at-large basis to complete the bracket. Per NCAA
Bylaw 31, the basic criteria used in the selection of at-large participants are (1) won-lost record, (2) strength of
schedule, and (3) eligibility and availability of student-athletes for the NCAA championship". See also the reference to DI games in nos. 3 and 4 below.

"Section 2•3 Selection Criteria

At-large teams shall be selected by the NCAA Division I Football Championship Committee, assisted by four regional
advisory committees that serve in an advisory capacity only.

The following principles shall apply when selecting at-large teams:

1. The committee shall select the best teams available on a national at-large basis to complete the bracket. Per NCAA Bylaw 31, the basic criteria used in the selection of at-large participants are (1) won-lost record, (2) strength of schedule, and (3) eligibility and availability of student-athletes for the NCAA championship;

2. There is no limit to the number of teams the committee may select from one conference;

3. The won-lost record of a team will be scrutinized to determine a team’s strength of schedule; however, fewer than six Division I wins may place a team in jeopardy of not being selected;

4. The committee may give more consideration to those teams that have played all Division I opponents; and

5. If a committee member’s institution is under consideration, that committee member will not be allowed in the room during discussions involving his/her team and may not vote for his/her team during the voting process. Similarly, a committee member from a conference office may not be present during discussions, nor vote for any team from his/her conference.

6. The committee will use the AFCA Coaches’ Poll and the Stats Perform FCS Top 25 Poll as a tool for evaluating teams."

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/champi ... Manual.pdf

Is it better for your resume to beat a D2 team by 7 at home, or lose to the best FCS team by 4 on the road? Should be the latter but it probably won't be.
I guess MSU should stop scheduling MVC teams and get some D2 teams back on the schedule. If the Cats played the griz non-conference schedule we'd have the same record as the griz right now.

It is clearly better to lose a close game to SDSU than to beat Ferris. Not even a close call. However, it is not better to beat Stetson than it is to beat the two-time national championships D2 team, which I read had more players in the NFL in recent times than either MSU or UM. I saw the UM v. Ferris game. Ferris was very good and played well. At least on that day, Ferris would have beaten all but the top handful of the Big Sky conference teams. I don't know anyone could even say that beating Ferris might be considered by the committee to be as good or better than playing SDSU in a close game. The committee would never do that.

Thats not exactly my point either. See my post directly above this to Teton, maybe I explained it better.