PSU @ MSU, Post-Game Thoughts

[Lord Vigo]

I missed this game because I was in the mountains on Saturday, but I watched it back this afternoon.

I realize it's a different experience watching when you know the outcome, but this was a much more dominating performance than what I was expecting when I heard/read the reactions.

The Cats only allowed a single legitimate scoring drive until the garbage time TD that came when the game was already over for all intents and purposes. The hapless officials gifted PSU a second first half touchdown with the phantom targeting call and the bogus DPI. That counts in the box score, but is not indicative of how the teams actually performed.

MSU only had 9 possessions. They scored five touchdowns and a field goal. They could also have easily scored a 7th time had they chosen to rather than kneeling out the clock on PSU's goal line. In other words, the Vikings stopped them twice on the entire day.

The official final was 38-22, but the reality of the game was more like 45-14.

Thoughts on Chambers:

I continue to think he's under-utilized when Mellott is healthy, and I hope their usage is more even when they're both available. That said, today was a gameplan that would have been more suited to Mellott. Chambers is so dangerous on designed runs, but he isn't nearly the scrambler that Tommy is. Tommy is usually only looking at one read, but his "second read" is the ability to take off, even when the pocket is crowded and muddy. Chambers certainly can do that too, but he isn't as capable in tight spaces. But he's also a "one read" QB, so when the look isn't there he's more likely to force it than to improvise. I think over time, if he was the fulltime guy, it would/will result in more turnovers.

[Catprint]

I missed this game because I was in the mountains on Saturday, but I watched it back this afternoon.

I realize it's a different experience watching when you know the outcome, but this was a much more dominating performance than what I was expecting when I heard/read the reactions.

The Cats only allowed a single legitimate scoring drive until the garbage time TD that came when the game was already over for all intents and purposes. The hapless officials gifted PSU a second first half touchdown with the phantom targeting call and the bogus DPI. That counts in the box score, but is not indicative of how the teams actually performed.

MSU only had 9 possessions. They scored five touchdowns and a field goal. They could also have easily scored a 7th time had they chosen to rather than kneeling out the clock on PSU's goal line. In other words, the Vikings stopped them twice on the entire day.

The official final was 38-22, but the reality of the game was more like 45-14.

My thoughts exactly on the final score. There were a fair number of backups on defensive in that last PSU drive when Cats were up 38-14. And while I am not a big run up the score guy, unfortunately MANY of the SID's and other voters only see points and point spreads and vote on that alone as they don't watch the games or even read the recaps (Gris position in the polls primary example). So no matter what anyone thinks, the position in the polls at the end of the season is at the very least a psychological factor in playoff seeding. In addition, the playoff committee can only know so much so they are looking at stats like PPG, total yards per game; defensive rank, etc. Yes, I understand a 10-1 season with only the last second loss to SDSU will get the Cats the number 2 seed.... But that is still 6 games from being the result.

still would like to see two backs in the backfield and some outside runs when we are within the 5 yard line. Having a first and goal at the 8 and settling for a field goal is tough to swallow. We definitely seem to have some struggle that close to the goal line. At least 4 times this year, we have come away with only a field goal or no points.

That said, overall I think PSU is more capable than everyone thought they would be and they will cause some issues for some other teams. Glad for our 2nd half performance and I think there is more parity in the league than anyone thought at the beginning of the year. So solid win that was never in doubt mid way through the third qtr.

[Montanabob]

Enough already. MSU wanted it to be the same score as the 1984 series but took pity on the last drive and took a knee. next up please. enjoy the bye week and a griz loss this weekend.

[TomCat88]

Psu ran a halfback pass on 3rd and 14 with about 3:30 to go down 38-14 vs mostly backups. Barnum said he wasn’t doing any gimmicks. Then an onside kick. All that is fine because there “was a chance” but I would’ve had no problem, and I doubt Barnum would either, with MSU scoring at the end. MSU has nothing to prove to anyone at this point. SDSU had a similar game yesterday vs UND.

[RootinfortheCats]

I was also in the woods and watched the replay today. This is fantastic analysis.

Sean has a tremendous arm, but needs to stop forcing those couple of throws a game.

Also CT making critical blocks 70 yards downfield is … inspiring.

[Prodigal Cat]

With the surprise Bison loss, I’m pretty sure Cats don’t need to worry about style point or margins. Just get the W. Finishing 10-1 with wins over most likely top ten teams in Idaho and Sac and only loss is by inches to the #1 team will put them in the top 2.

[Lord Vigo]

I missed this game because I was in the mountains on Saturday, but I watched it back this afternoon.

I realize it's a different experience watching when you know the outcome, but this was a much more dominating performance than what I was expecting when I heard/read the reactions.

The Cats only allowed a single legitimate scoring drive until the garbage time TD that came when the game was already over for all intents and purposes. The hapless officials gifted PSU a second first half touchdown with the phantom targeting call and the bogus DPI. That counts in the box score, but is not indicative of how the teams actually performed.

MSU only had 9 possessions. They scored five touchdowns and a field goal. They could also have easily scored a 7th time had they chosen to rather than kneeling out the clock on PSU's goal line. In other words, the Vikings stopped them twice on the entire day.

The official final was 38-22, but the reality of the game was more like 45-14.

My thoughts exactly on the final score. There were a fair number of backups on defensive in that last PSU drive when Cats were up 38-14. And while I am not a big run up the score guy, unfortunately MANY of the SID's and other voters only see points and point spreads and vote on that alone as they don't watch the games or even read the recaps (Gris position in the polls primary example). So no matter what anyone thinks, the position in the polls at the end of the season is at the very least a psychological factor in playoff seeding. In addition, the playoff committee can only know so much so they are looking at stats like PPG, total yards per game; defensive rank, etc. Yes, I understand a 10-1 season with only the last second loss to SDSU will get the Cats the number 2 seed.... But that is still 6 games from being the result.

still would like to see two backs in the backfield and some outside runs when we are within the 5 yard line. Having a first and goal at the 8 and settling for a field goal is tough to swallow. We definitely seem to have some struggle that close to the goal line. At least 4 times this year, we have come away with only a field goal or no points.

That said, overall I think PSU is more capable than everyone thought they would be and they will cause some issues for some other teams. Glad for our 2nd half performance and I think there is more parity in the league than anyone thought at the beginning of the year. So solid win that was never in doubt mid way through the third qtr.

I couldn't find any neat and tidy stats for Red Zone TD %, so I have to put these together manually. Just for comparison:

MSU: 17/26, 65%
SDSU: 15/16, 94%
NDSU: 15/20, 75%
ID: 15/23, 65%
SAC: 16/24, 67%
UIW: 11/18, 61%
FUR: 15/19, 79%

So the Cats certainly need to get better. 65% is not good enough. At the same time, they don't have a radical problem that makes them an outlier, even among the best of the FCS.

[Montanabob]

I couldn't find any neat and tidy stats for Red Zone TD %, so I have to put these together manually. Just for comparison:

MSU: 17/26, 65%
SDSU: 15/16, 94%
NDSU: 15/20, 75%
ID: 15/23, 65%
SAC: 16/24, 67%
UIW: 11/18, 61%
FUR: 15/19, 79%

So the Cats certainly need to get better. 65% is not good enough. At the same time, they don't have a radical problem that makes them an outlier, even among the best of the FCS.


since i'm lazy, is that only TD? or any scoring. and what would our % be if Hall made the chip shots?

and yes i understand DSU's have played one less game but we have got in the red zone a lot this year and left at least one red zone with a kneel down.

with Hall's missed fg's and another score against Portland CC, where does that put us?

[TomCat88]

If MSU continues to get red zone passing TDs on tape as it did yesterday it’ll probably improve its efficiency there. Especially the two short passes to Snell.

Good game plan/script/qb decision early to mix the pass in imo. (Anyone notice the tough (1-handed?) catch by Snell on first pass?) Five passes to three runs — one by Marqui Johnson — on first drive before turning it over to Davis. Chambers didn’t keep it once on the goal line or in short yardage — other than two-point conversion — that I recall.

Good character-building game for MSU, as Vigen put it. Especially first half. They had to overcome penalties, two gash-type TDs, getting stuffed near the goal line and ejection of Askelson. Did that with great second half getting TDs on first three (would’ve been all four) possessions, holding Vikings scoreless for first 26 minutes of second half.

Not only was the second PSU TD defense (iffy call?) aided but the first TD drive had a defensive holding on a 3rd-7 play. It was PSU’s first 1st down. 4 of PAU’s first seven 1st downs were off penalties.

MSU only allowed two plays of 20 or more.

[GoldstoneCat]

I missed this game because I was in the mountains on Saturday, but I watched it back this afternoon.

I realize it's a different experience watching when you know the outcome, but this was a much more dominating performance than what I was expecting when I heard/read the reactions.

The Cats only allowed a single legitimate scoring drive until the garbage time TD that came when the game was already over for all intents and purposes. The hapless officials gifted PSU a second first half touchdown with the phantom targeting call and the bogus DPI. That counts in the box score, but is not indicative of how the teams actually performed.

MSU only had 9 possessions. They scored five touchdowns and a field goal. They could also have easily scored a 7th time had they chosen to rather than kneeling out the clock on PSU's goal line. In other words, the Vikings stopped them twice on the entire day.

The official final was 38-22, but the reality of the game was more like 45-14.

Thoughts on Chambers:

I continue to think he's under-utilized when Mellott is healthy, and I hope their usage is more even when they're both available. That said, today was a gameplan that would have been more suited to Mellott. Chambers is so dangerous on designed runs, but he isn't nearly the scrambler that Tommy is. Tommy is usually only looking at one read, but his "second read" is the ability to take off, even when the pocket is crowded and muddy. Chambers certainly can do that too, but he isn't as capable in tight spaces. But he's also a "one read" QB, so when the look isn't there he's more likely to force it than to improvise. I think over time, if he was the fulltime guy, it would/will result in more turnovers.

I agree as well, the game never felt in doubt despite the scoreboard showing otherwise for a time. It was really frustrating to not sure a TD on that first half red zone trip to go up 21-14. On chambers, I agree with what you said about him forcing the ball, he will throw a couple a game that should not be thrown. Minor quibble with him as a 1-read guy. There have been several completions in these 2 starts that were his secondary read on a particular play. 2 that come to mind immediately are a deep cross against weber where the first look was a deep post, the second was a shallow out in the same game that could have gone to a deeper out. I guess the way i think of him would be as a half-the-field qb instead of truly 1 read. But you're absolutely correct, he is not as good at improvising in scramble situations as Tommy is, and we would throw more ints over a season with him as the starter.
Do you think we would be better in the passing game overall over a season with Sean starting vs Tommy? Offensively as a whole? I'm a bit back and forth on the whole thing. I think Sean, while imperfect, is a much more complete qb especially as a passer than Tommy is. He's also as you said dangerous on designed runs, bootlegs, etc. Tommy just has so much ability to turn a broken play into a big gainer, he's probably better in the zone read/mesh game, and he seems to have that Lulay quality where if a play needs made he just makes it. I don't know how i would divvy it but it's a good problem. There are plenty of teams in this league and 1 in this state who would kill to have either one of them.

[allcat]

I don't know stats, just feeling. It feels as though we have trouble with the short yardage power runs.

[wbtfg]

I don't know stats, just feeling. It feels as though we have trouble with the short yardage power runs.

It definitely feels like we are less efficient in that area than we were last year.

I've said this multiple times, but last year I think we did a lot more jet sweep action on the goal line to keep the ends and backers from crashing down.

[TomCat88]

I don't know stats, just feeling. It feels as though we have trouble with the short yardage power runs.

It definitely feels like we are less efficient in that area than we were last year.

I've said this multiple times, but last year I think we did a lot more jet sweep action on the goal line to keep the ends and backers from crashing down.

Every team has trouble with short yardage power runs because it’s a numbers game. Teams usually need 2-3 cracks at it to get across the goal line. Away from the goal line it’s easier because the defense has more field to cover.

MSU appears to be getting away from that, especially yesterday when it threw three passes inside the 10. All to Snell. One shovel pass that got to the two, and two short TD passes. It’s also difficult to throw the ball down there because of the lack of field to work.

Teams get stubborn and want to play big boy football and force it across. When they do that it favors the defense more because they just key on the middle.

[Montanabob]

never saw it posted, what was the official tackle stats for robbie?

[Lord Vigo]

I missed this game because I was in the mountains on Saturday, but I watched it back this afternoon.

I realize it's a different experience watching when you know the outcome, but this was a much more dominating performance than what I was expecting when I heard/read the reactions.

The Cats only allowed a single legitimate scoring drive until the garbage time TD that came when the game was already over for all intents and purposes. The hapless officials gifted PSU a second first half touchdown with the phantom targeting call and the bogus DPI. That counts in the box score, but is not indicative of how the teams actually performed.

MSU only had 9 possessions. They scored five touchdowns and a field goal. They could also have easily scored a 7th time had they chosen to rather than kneeling out the clock on PSU's goal line. In other words, the Vikings stopped them twice on the entire day.

The official final was 38-22, but the reality of the game was more like 45-14.

Thoughts on Chambers:

I continue to think he's under-utilized when Mellott is healthy, and I hope their usage is more even when they're both available. That said, today was a gameplan that would have been more suited to Mellott. Chambers is so dangerous on designed runs, but he isn't nearly the scrambler that Tommy is. Tommy is usually only looking at one read, but his "second read" is the ability to take off, even when the pocket is crowded and muddy. Chambers certainly can do that too, but he isn't as capable in tight spaces. But he's also a "one read" QB, so when the look isn't there he's more likely to force it than to improvise. I think over time, if he was the fulltime guy, it would/will result in more turnovers.

I agree as well, the game never felt in doubt despite the scoreboard showing otherwise for a time. It was really frustrating to not sure a TD on that first half red zone trip to go up 21-14. On chambers, I agree with what you said about him forcing the ball, he will throw a couple a game that should not be thrown. Minor quibble with him as a 1-read guy. There have been several completions in these 2 starts that were his secondary read on a particular play. 2 that come to mind immediately are a deep cross against weber where the first look was a deep post, the second was a shallow out in the same game that could have gone to a deeper out. I guess the way i think of him would be as a half-the-field qb instead of truly 1 read. But you're absolutely correct, he is not as good at improvising in scramble situations as Tommy is, and we would throw more ints over a season with him as the starter.
Do you think we would be better in the passing game overall over a season with Sean starting vs Tommy? Offensively as a whole? I'm a bit back and forth on the whole thing. I think Sean, while imperfect, is a much more complete qb especially as a passer than Tommy is. He's also as you said dangerous on designed runs, bootlegs, etc. Tommy just has so much ability to turn a broken play into a big gainer, he's probably better in the zone read/mesh game, and he seems to have that Lulay quality where if a play needs made he just makes it. I don't know how i would divvy it but it's a good problem. There are plenty of teams in this league and 1 in this state who would kill to have either one of them.

Good thoughts.

I do think that specifically the passing game would/could be better on balance with Chambers. I think that Mellott, at least for the moment, is more limited as a passer. However, I don't think the offense as a whole would be better. I think the best possible offense that the Cats have right now is the one that mixes Mellott and Chambers fairly evenly, and uses them both at the same time regularly.

[Lord Vigo]

I don't know stats, just feeling. It feels as though we have trouble with the short yardage power runs.

It definitely feels like we are less efficient in that area than we were last year.

I've said this multiple times, but last year I think we did a lot more jet sweep action on the goal line to keep the ends and backers from crashing down.

According to the stats on msubobcats.com, their RZ touchdown rate last year was 61%. So it's actually a little better so far in 2023, though not where we want it to be.

My opinion: the beginnings of seasons have an outsized impact on how people think about a team and its strengths and weaknesses. The first notable thing that Cat fans saw this season was the failure to score a TD on the goal line against UTU (though they did score-- Big Sky refs). I think that has made the issue a major talking point and made it feel like it's a bigger problem than it was in 2022. I also think that as time has passed, fans have forgotten about the short yardage struggles that occasionally popped up a year ago. All they remember is that the offense was generally awesome.

[Catgotmytung]

PSU was able to move the ball against the Cats and picked up several first downs. The quarterback got 83 yards and two touchdowns and the Cats struggled on occasion when he took off and ran. They will need to get that fixed as there are more running quarterbacks coming up on our schedule. PSU has an improved team from last year and I'm interested to see how they fare next week against an improving Northern Arizona squad. NA of course beat the Griz and played a close game with Sac State on Saturday. I watched the Griz game and while it was close, I thought Idaho State played some good football and have good athletes - they have a good passing game. There's just no free passes in the Big Sky-love how these teams stay competitive-it's a great conference.

[BelligerentBobcat]

PSU was able to move the ball against the Cats and picked up several first downs. The quarterback got 83 yards and two touchdowns and the Cats struggled on occasion when he took off and ran. They will need to get that fixed as there are more running quarterbacks coming up on our schedule. PSU has an improved team from last year and I'm interested to see how they fare next week against an improving Northern Arizona squad. NA of course beat the Griz and played a close game with Sac State on Saturday. I watched the Griz game and while it was close, I thought Idaho State played some good football and have good athletes - they have a good passing game. There's just no free passes in the Big Sky-love how these teams stay competitive-it's a great conference.

If you exclude the last two drives for PSU, where primarily defensive backups were in, PSU averaged 3.78 yards per play. A couple turnovers, lots of tackles for loss, that is more than sufficient.

Their QB was good, and a good scrambler for sure, but if the defense holds teams to that every week with our offense, we’ll be just fine.

[Camo_Cat]

never saw it posted, what was the official tackle stats for robbie?

LOL! Not sure how many tackles he got credited for, but what I can tell you is that he kept his winless streak in Bobcat Stadium alive...

[luckyirishguy25]

never saw it posted, what was the official tackle stats for robbie?

LOL! Not sure how many tackles he got credited for, but what I can tell you is that he kept his winless streak in Bobcat Stadium alive...

I believe he was given an assist on every tackle.