Over and Under-achievers in B-Ball

Home For Holidays · Post by **Home For Holidays** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:50 pm

Aaaahh! It's good to be home for the holidays. I grew up a Bobcat hoops fan from Billings but have only had a chance to see the Cats at the Holiday Turney the past 7 or 8 years. Every year when I attend I see some players who exceed all expectations and other players who fall short. By exceeding expectations I mean that the player exceeds what is expected of him, in terms of pre-season akalades, natural athletic ability, past track record, excetera. By falling short I mean the opposite.

Here are a couple of overachievers I can think of from the past few years:

SCOTT HATLER- This guy never slacked for a second on the court. He dove for loose balls, outhustled, played great defense, led the team as a point guard, and could shoot the 3 when needed.

JASON ERICKSON- Not that expectations for J were zero coming in, but he still CLEARLY exceeded EVERYTHING anyone would have ever hoped for from him. If not for a firendship between Mick and an Alaska highschool coach, J may never have played college ball. Instead, he has a stellar career at MSU and sniffs a chance at the NBA.

CASEY REYNOLDS- I don't remember much about this guy but his coaches ALWAYS remarked about Casey's work ethic. I remember the coaches often sited this guy as a classic over-achievement.

Here are a few underachievers from the same era:

CALVIN ENTO- I remember hearing after the Blue-Gold scrimmage prior to his junior year that this guy would be BigSky MVP. Except for a few games during his senior year (like the Griz), Calvin sleepwalked through his basketball career at MSU.

AARON "ADAM" RICH- Eight is Enough seemed to get more technical fouls and throw more childish temper-tantrums than he scored points. This kid came in with so much athletic talent but played many of his games with quite a bit of apprehension. And, he was lazy. He seemed to suffer from the classic "only child" syndrome.

JOHNNY MACK- A blast from my childhood. Johnny came in and was named the pre-season newcomer of the year for the BigSky. On many occasions, Johnny could shoot the lights out and jump out of the gym. But, on too many other games, he was injured and/or played like he just didnt care.

BIG JOHN LAZOSKY- This guy had tremendous potential, acumulated decent (if not great) stats, and received various post-season akalades. But, if he would have spent as much time on his game as he did on trying to look buffed up, this guy could have been BigSky MVP. Any guy who refers to HIMSELF as "Big John" instead of just his first name must be a bit self-absorbed.

What do you guys think? And, can we explain the differences in these relative levels of accomplishment? Can you help me add to either of these lists? Does this year's team have any players who fall into each category?

bozbobcat · Post by **bozbobcat** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:00 pm

Welcome back to Montana! It's always great to hear from another good Bobcat fan. I think I can add a few to your lists somewhere, but I'm not sure which list.

Not sure where this one goes:
PETE CONWAY-It took Pete a while to warm up to being a Bobcat. I don't know if he was an underachiever for the first part of his career, but by his senior year he hit the big shot. His greatest game was at Utah St. in the NIT where he went off for 30 or so points and hit 7 of 10 3-pointers. In a way, I think he was a bit of an underachiever, but a good player for the Cats. It's too bad his sister decided to be a Griz, though.

Overachievers:
SCOTT HARRY-He did a great job as a Bobcat and logged some great minutes. His best attribute was that he was tough as hell playing both football and basketball. Scott got a lot out of just being physical.

NATE HOLMSTADT-One of my favorite Bobcat basketball players of all time. For being 6'8", he was a dominant center in the Big Sky and certainly helped that '96 team and kept a great winning tradition alive at MSU.

MIKE HENRY-He was a solid role player for the Cats in the Nate Holmstadt/Danny Sprinkle/Danny Sullivan era and contributed solid minutes. He was also a good guy and represented MSU well.

KENNY PLUMMER-Kenny didn't get too many flashy stats, but his dunks would electrify the team and the crowd. His Afro and pump-it-up attitude was a fun addition to the Bobcat program. I think he and his spirit were two of the major reasons that the 2002 Bobcats won the Big Sky.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:22 pm

I guess I would only agree to Johnny Mack on your underachievers list. Mack could have/ should have been one MSU's all time greats.

Ento was an overachiever in my opinion. He was a last minute fill in recruit from the same team as Josh Barsh (maybe Barsh was more of an underachiever). In typical Durham philosophy the generously listed 6'6" Ento was asked to be a D-1 center. He had to play many more minutes than first hoped because of the problems of Matt Towsley (an underachiever through no fault of his own-bad back). Ento was a spetacular leeper who played taller than he was. He was no Quadre Lollis-but I think he did alright.

This could be a fun thread.

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:27 pm

My favorite disappointment had to have been Willie Weeks; what a talent that went to waste--he held Pistol Pete 18 points under his average and led the conference in scoring as a freshman. Still the best pure shooter I've ever seen wear the blue and gold and that includes Tom Storm, still my favorite Bobcat ever.

Also on that list would have to be Kermit Young as far as not quite reaching his real potential.

Jack Gillespie did a lot more than he physically should have been able to accomplish.

I'd also put Scott Koelzer and Mark Beckman on the list of underachievers. I don't think either played with the drive they had in high school.

Another Columbia Falls kid, Craig Finberg, would have to be one of our biggest overachievers; all his game consisted of was casting off like Tom Kasteliz only he shot a decent percentage.

My biggest disappointment had to have been Brent(?) Wilson from Kalispell. Too bad Juarez gave him the scholly instead of McCallum

Overachievers? Damako, the Ferches, Tony Hampton and crew. Still remember the year Starner lost control of them and they started running on him and we were the first team ever to make the tournament with a losing record.

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:18 pm

Ento: He was a last minute player signed in the early summer after a player (I believe Brian William) quit. We were the only D-1 program who offered him. At best he was a very marginal D-1 player. I do not look at him as an under acheiver.

Nate Holmstead: Great player for us. Was Minnisota "Mr. Basketball" as a senior. Was rated as the best Big Sky recruit in the previuos 5 years. Had many offer from "larger schools" but choose MSU becuase as he put it " wanted to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond". He came in and contributed right away as a true freshman, as expected, but by his senior year was an all Big Sky player but was not the absolute dominating player that was expected. Great player but did not develope as much as many was expected.

My Over achievers

Danny Sprinkle: Was expected to be a good Big Sky player, but the way he came on his freshman year no one (except Sprinkle) thought that he would be that good that fast. He was truely feared by most Big Sky coaches from his sophmore year on.

Tryg Johnson: (Going way back) Was expected to be a last minute signie / project. Redshirt his freshman year and then play behind the highly ranked Greg Walters. Tryg was not fancy but with Hashley's playing the power forward found himself in the starting line up as a true Freshman. Was a top center when the league had very few good big men.

Underachiever

Greg Walters: High scoring Canadian center. Recruited by everyone in the north west. Now don't get me wrong because, I liked Greg personally alot. He was a great guy, but he had be told 2-3 time a year that he was NOT a point Guard. True definition of big man needing time to develope. Greg really looked ackward on the court, but by his senior year he was an OK Big Sky center. People like to make fun of Greg, but he was not all that bad, but he was not the player Bruce Haroldson (the MSU coach at the time) hyped him up to be.

AZCAT21 · Post by **AZCAT21** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:23 pm

Home-Have to disagree with a couple of assesments on your part

Ento-He never once was ever even closely mentioned as Big Sky MVP talk. Don't know why you would make that statement. He came in as a role player and actually probably overachieved once he got playing time. Remember he was playing on a team with one of the top 5 bobcats bballers of all time....gonna be a little hard to become MVP over Jason in any year.

Rich-don't think that being a 4 year started is anyway an underachievement. He led the team in a lot of the intangibles like rebounding, assists, steals, and was a consistent 10ppg scorer. Doesn't seem like a lazy player at all. I would agree that he would throw temper tantrums and did foul out a lot.

Big John-I would agree that he didn't live up to his potential. Never turned out to be the rebounding machine he should have been. Although he did come up big in plenty of games. But being a 1 dimensional player on my account does equal underachiever.

Stirmlinger-Kyle was definitly a disappointment for this program. He came in 2 years after I finished and I had heard a ton of great things about him. Seemed like he was going to be the next great center for us after Holmstadt was done. Unfortunatly he ended up not playing because of grades I believe. I think he ended his career in Billings.

just a couple of thoughts on your post and added another underachiever.

duelalumnicat · Post by **duelalumnicat** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:28 pm

I don't know whether he qualifies as an overachiever, but I was really impressed with Damir Latovic the one year he was here. Big body, soft touch, good rebounder, looked like a pro player among schoolboys. Too bad he only stayed one year. I recall that he left to go pro in Europe to help support his family in war torn Serbia/Croatia. Mick later said that after Damir found out that the money was less than what he expected, he wanted to come back but it was too late. I think Chris Conway and Steve Snodgrass were also overachievers. For my underachiever, does anybody else remember Harry Heniken ? I think he was ok, with flashes of brilliance, but I don't recall that he consistently played to the level of the hype that followed him here from his JC in California.

anacondagriz · Post by **anacondagriz** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:18 pm

Cat Grad wrote:
I'd also put Scott Koelzer and Mark Beckman on the list of underachievers. I don't think either played with the drive they had in high school.

Is the Mark Beckman who coached girls hoops at BC & Anaconda & now works for the MHSA?

GOKATS · Post by **GOKATS** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:30 pm

bozbobcat wrote:Welcome back to Montana! It's always great to hear from another good Bobcat fan. I think I can add a few to your lists somewhere, but I'm not sure which list.

Not sure where this one goes:
PETE CONWAY-It took Pete a while to warm up to being a Bobcat. I don't know if he was an underachiever for the first part of his career, but by his senior year he hit the big shot. His greatest game was at Utah St. in the NIT where he went off for 30 or so points and hit 7 of 10 3-pointers. In a way, I think he was a bit of an underachiever, but a good player for the Cats. It's too bad his sister decided to be a Griz, though.

Overachievers:
SCOTT HARRY-He did a great job as a Bobcat and logged some great minutes. His best attribute was that he was tough as hell playing both football and basketball. Scott got a lot out of just being physical.

NATE HOLMSTADT-One of my favorite Bobcat basketball players of all time. For being 6'8", he was a dominant center in the Big Sky and certainly helped that '96 team and kept a great winning tradition alive at MSU.

MIKE HENRY-He was a solid role player for the Cats in the Nate Holmstadt/Danny Sprinkle/Danny Sullivan era and contributed solid minutes. He was also a good guy and represented MSU well.

KENNY PLUMMER-Kenny didn't get too many flashy stats, but his dunks would electrify the team and the crowd. His Afro and pump-it-up attitude was a fun addition to the Bobcat program. I think he and his spirit were two of the major reasons that the 2002 Bobcats won the Big Sky.

Good call on these guys- fully agree with your assessment.

kooper · Post by **kooper** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:42 pm

My top overachievers:

Danny Sprinkle, Nate Holmstadt, Kenny Plumber, Scott Harry, Casey Reynolds are to first that come to mind.

My top underachievers:

Kyle Stirmlinger, Danny Faaborg, Jermaine Chase

a couple comments:

Home For Holidays...are you outta your damn mind? Calvin Ento and Aaron Rich underachievers? Ento didn't get much run his Junior year and balled up big time his senior year, especially for being 6'7" playing the frontcourt. Aaron Rich...1,000 point career scorer, 4 year starter (including started over bozbobcat's overachiever Mike Henry as a true freshman) let his team in a few different statistical categories...

kooper · Post by **kooper** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:14 pm

Wow, I almost forgot about Josh Barsh....he was horrid! It seemed like he didn't do anything on the court.

Ponycat · Post by **Ponycat** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:27 pm

Opninons vary I quess but Rich is one of my all-time favorites.

I would say Menefee overachieved but mainly because he had to as he didn't have much for a supporting cast.

GOKATS · Post by **GOKATS** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:40 pm

Ponycat wrote:Opninons vary I quess but Rich is one of my all-time favorites.

I would say Menefee overachieved but mainly because he had to as he didn't have much for a supporting cast.

I also was a big fan of Rich- always fun to watch and did his job. Same for Art. He never did anything exceptional, but filled a badly needed role at the time in what seemed to me to be a very humble manner.

MSUcantouchus · Post by **MSUcantouchus** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:43 pm

Josh Barsh played great D. Sometimes we forget that there is two ends of the court to play.

I would say Durr has been an underachiever so far. He is not much of an offensive threat except for an occasional three and he is to slow to defend a forward or guard.

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:36 pm

Underacheivers: The whole 2005 team (except Jefferson and Beye)

bigcat · Post by **bigcat** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:28 am

Over...

Damir Latovich....rebounding machine...and always played hard