Book About Bobcat Football AfterWorld War II?

griz8791 · Post by **griz8791** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 9:57 am

Last night my father in law started talking about a book he'd like to read about Bobcat football right after "the war." He's not getting any younger so it's hard to get coherent details out of him. We think "the war" probably means WWII. He says the book is about guys who served in the war and then came back to rebuild the football team. We asked if he was talking about the book "the Divide War" and he says no.

We'd like to find this and get if for him if we can. Do any of you guys have a better idea what he might be talking about?

catamaran · Post by **catamaran** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:32 am

There was an outside the lines special a couple of years ago about all of the Bobcat players who died in WWII (most of the team). There is probably some citations about who returned to play

Shakermaker · Post by **Shakermaker** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:50 pm

catamaran wrote:There was an outside the lines special a couple of years ago about all of the Bobcat players who died in WWII (most of the team). There is probably some citations about who returned to play

No, all players that served during WWII died. I can get some info on that. I don't know of a book dedicated to that, but I know of a book that has an article type write up of MSU's team.

catamaran · Post by **catamaran** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:32 am

All the players from the WWII teams didn't die. There were a good number of them, but not the whole team. Watch the show, meatball

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:37 am

Here's a brief synopsis that I found....

Outside The Lines "WWII: Fields of Play, Fields of Battle"

On Friday, Dec. 7, the 60th anniversary of the bombing of Pearl Harbor, ESPN will present a special Outside The Lines at 5 p.m. The one-hour program, World War II: Fields of Play, Fields of Battle, is devoted to three stories; including, the Montana State football team, which had 14 players- eleven from its 1940 and 41 teams and three from its late 1930's teams- die in service to their country.

The segment is entitled "The Tragedy of Montana State." Weeks after Pearl Harbor, players from the Montana State football team went off to war. Only one, Bill Zupan, would return to play for the Bobcats.

"You don't think you're ever going to die. I know that I didn't until I got very close to it. Then I said, Well, wait a minute.'" -- Bill Zupan, Bobcats, 1941 & 46

"The players were a selection of guys from the Montana prairie, all with similar backgrounds- - agricultural, mining, and very blue-collar. These guys knew that there was a job to do-- I mean, there was a bigger game coming up and they wanted to be in it. To have eleven from one team and then three from previous teams go, completely obliterated any other school's sacrifice." - - John Lukacs, historian and author

Shakermaker · Post by **Shakermaker** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:21 am

catamaran wrote:All the players from the WWII teams didn't die. There were a good number of them, but not the whole team. Watch the show, meatball

I never said they all died... I said all members of the team that SERVED died.

I was slightly off, but you're off as well. I can at least put the rumor to bed.

"Those killed in action included the entire 11 man starting lineup of the 1940-41 Montana State College football team, the only American college football team to lose its entire starting line-up. By the fall of 1946 Montana State College had nearly 3,600 students, double the enrollment of five years before."

"*Capt. John F. Burke, a Montana State College football player on the 1941 team, was a tackle killed in action in Italy on January 7, 1944. Burke was given a written commendation by Eisenhower for salvaging armored vehicles under fire.

* Dana Bradford, end, killed in plane crash.

* John Hall, Jr., end, killed in plane crash.

* Albert Zupin, center, killed in plane crash.

* Newell Burke, tackle, killed in New Guinea.

* Bernard Cluzen, guard, killed in South Pacific.

*Joseph McGreever, guard, killed in Germany.

*Wendell Scabad, backfield, killed in action.

*Alton Zempel, QB, killed in plane crash.

*Rich Roman, backfield, killed in Germany." -- Gary Glynn, author Montana's Home Front During WWII

I believe 14 in all died.

catamaran · Post by **catamaran** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:39 am

That's still an incorrect statement, see wbtfg's statement above; fourteen of them died. Considering I'm a historian, I've read a book or too, and none of them have the pop-ups that your's seem to have. On the '41 team it was the starters, not the entire squad. Football was suspended during the last couple of years of the war because of the male shortage on campus and out of deference to those who didn't return

Shakermaker · Post by **Shakermaker** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:41 am

catamaran wrote:That's still an incorrect statement, see wbtfg's statement above; fourteen of them died. Considering I'm a historian, I've read a book or too, and none of them have the pop-ups that your's seem to have.

A historian eh... not a speller though. You read a book or too... you meant two champ.

catamaran · Post by **catamaran** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 am

You're proven wrong and resort to a spelling error on a chat board....good form...at least I'm not a burger flipper, or I guess a salt SHAKERMAKER

Shakermaker · Post by **Shakermaker** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:47 am

catamaran wrote:You're proven wrong and resort to a spelling error on a chat board....good form...at least I'm not a burger flipper, or I guess a salt SHAKERMAKER

How was I proven wrong by you. Tell me? I even named who, the place, and how they died. I even named the book and the author where I got my information and I even came up with the same number of total killed as you. You left a lot more out for being a "historian." The Enquirer doesn't count as research material.

Go dazzle everyone with your historical knowledge on the smack board. I have a better idea. Look up the number of A-holes in America during WWII vs 2005, up to and including yourself. That should give you something to do between spelling bees.

catamaran · Post by **catamaran** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:52 am

I'm tired of getting into a pi$$ing match with a Griz every time a topic comes up. I mentioned the "Outside the Lines" and made a slight correction. In your original post you stated all the members of the '41 team died. You corrected it and came up with the exact number. I was reciting information from memory not digging up minutia. Congrats for having too much spare time

Shakermaker · Post by **Shakermaker** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:56 am

catamaran wrote:I'm tired of getting into a pi$$ing match with a Griz every time a topic comes up. I mentioned the "Outside the Lines" and made a slight correction. In your original post you stated all the members of the '41 team died. You corrected it and came up with the exact number. I was reciting information from memory not digging up minutia. Congrats for having too much spare time

Oh, you did this all from memory... good for you. I have one for you Mr. Historian with less time on his hands then me. When was the last time your football team won an outright Big Sky title? Since you don't have much time on your hands I'll tell you. 1984, but you're a historian, so you already knew that.

coachouert · Post by **coachouert** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:01 am

Shakermaker wrote:
No, all players that served during WWII died. I can get some info on that. I don't know of a book dedicated to that, but I know of a book that has an article type write up of MSU's team.

How was I proven wrong by you. Tell me? I even named who, the place, and how they died. I even named the book and the author where I got my information and I even came up with the same number of total killed as you. You left a lot more out for being a "historian." The Enquirer doesn't count as research material.

Catamaran responded to your original post which is above where you state that ALL players died. I'm confused how him correcting you turns into a pissing match with looking up the number of A-Holes in 2005? If you have enough time to do that, I'd start looking in Wa-Griz stadium or in the mirror! I appreciate you taking the time to look up all of the fallen soldiers but then you start babbling about Big Sky Conference Titles...I'd look to mslacat's thread about HIJACKING THREADS! Way to take a good thread with an honest question and somehow in true Griz fan fashion turn it in to my dad can beat up your dad (which by the way, he can

)

Back to the topic, does anyone have a copy of this Outside the lines, I'd love to see it and didn't even know it was being done. I think it's a great tribute to the soldiers and school that it was done. Something none of us should ever forget.

catamaran · Post by **catamaran** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:01 am

Way to edit a post and then reply to it...as far as the A-hole numbers, I can count two on this board

catamaran · Post by **catamaran** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:09 am

Coach, since you're on campus, there is a DVD copy in the library in the Special Collections room and the original VHS we got from ESPN

Shakermaker · Post by **Shakermaker** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:10 am

catamaran wrote:Way to edit a post and then reply to it...as far as the A-hole numbers, I can count two on this board

The two of us... listen, I apologize. This thread went way off topic and turned into a pissing match. The guy wanted to know about MSU's WWII past and WE gave it to him. Let's end this now and allow this thread to go back to the origional question/comments.

*Edit a post and reply to it???*

Shakermaker · Post by **Shakermaker** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:16 am

coachouert wrote:
Shakermaker wrote:
No, all players that served during WWII died. I can get some info on that. I don't know of a book dedicated to that, but I know of a book that has an article type write up of MSU's team.

How was I proven wrong by you. Tell me? I even named who, the place, and how they died. I even named the book and the author where I got my information and I even came up with the same number of total killed as you. You left a lot more out for being a "historian." The Enquirer doesn't count as research material.
Catamaran responded to your original post which is above where you state that ALL players died. I'm confused how him correcting you turns into a pissing match with looking up the number of A-Holes in 2005? If you have enough time to do that, I'd start looking in Wa-Griz stadium or in the mirror! I appreciate you taking the time to look up all of the fallen soldiers but then you start babbling about Big Sky Conference Titles...I'd look to mslacat's thread about HIJACKING THREADS! Way to take a good thread with an honest question and somehow in true Griz fan fashion turn it in to my dad can beat up your dad (which by the way, he can )

Back to the topic, does anyone have a copy of this Outside the lines, I'd love to see it and didn't even know it was being done. I think it's a great tribute to the soldiers and school that it was done. Something none of us should ever forget.

I think it was the "meatball" comment that started it all.

coachouert · Post by **coachouert** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:16 am

catamaran wrote:Coach, since you're on campus, there is a DVD copy in the library in the Special Collections room and the original VHS we got from ESPN

Thanks Catamaran. I'll have to swing over there sometime today and see about taking a look at it!

Shaker...fair enough. At least we're back on topic.

catamaran · Post by **catamaran** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:18 am

i apologize myself for the crack and letting this thread "unravel". I think that, like many people who post here, we have gotten so used to responding to the unreasonable it becomes common place to jump everyone in a similar fashion.