Wyoming Budget Woes, Drop down question

[Rich K]

The state of Wyoming is in the midst of budget wrangling, and has been hit hard by a drop in fossil fuel generated revenue. Listening on the radio this morning on the way to work a state legislator, I didn't catch his name, was suggesting that maybe UW ought to drop down to Division II for sports. While he said Division II, I think he probably was referring to the previously discussed idea of dropping football to FCS.
I went looking for a story online this morning to see if there is a related story, but I didn't find one. I did find this story from a few years ago.
http://www.laramieboomerang.com/news/ar ... 5b873.html

I will be curious if the talk of dropping down is more for political considerations as the budget battles continue.

I'd love to bring Wyoming in as a full member of the Big Sky Conference instead of Idaho if Idaho keeps delaying the inevitable football move. Unless we bring in Idaho, Wyoming, and New Mexico as a package.

[77matcat]

Has any FBS school ever dropped to FCS???


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[Rich K]

Has any FBS school ever dropped to FCS???


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No. Maybe if three dropped at once it would buffer the grief for the respective boosters.

[luckyirishguy25]

Has any FBS school ever dropped to FCS???


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No. Maybe if three dropped at once it would buffer the grief for the respective boosters.

I've never really understood this, I get dropping from FBS to FCS looks like a bad thing, but is it? These teams are woefully outmatched in almost every FBS game and even some FCS games, if they came to FCS, they could be playoff contenders in a matter of a few seasons. I would think that to be better than being a perpetual door mat for everyone.

[grizzh8r]

Not to mention that UW would immediately have one of the largest FCS stadiums if they did make the move. Who has been to a game at War Memorial stadium? How is it overall from an atmosphere standpoint?

[SonomaCat]

I think the resistance to moving down goes well beyond the wins and losses, and some of it seems pretty legit.

Sports are a marketing arm of a university, and despite the fact that its kind of silly, the sports reputation of a school can have a pretty dramatic impact on how that school is seen in terms of attracting students, prestige, staff, etc.

The reality is that being a bad FBS school still draws far more marketing power for a school than being a solid FCS program. By nature of "competing at the highest level," an FBS program is seen in a different light than an FCS school. Taking a step down on the football field competition would potentially have a huge impact on how that school is seen by potential students, donors, staff, etc.

If Wyoming dropped down, it would lose a huge amount of its institutional ego/mojo. Currently, despite the tiny size of the state, Wyoming is the big kid on the block as compared to most other schools in the region (including MSU and UM). If they dropped down they would lose that, and it would probably impact their enrollment quite a bit. They would no longer be a "big time" school in the eyes of the casual observer.

They would also lose all of the money they get from being in a relatively good athletic conference.

[Bobcat4Ever]

Not to mention that UW would immediately have one of the largest FCS stadiums if they did make the move. Who has been to a game at War Memorial stadium? How is it overall from an atmosphere standpoint?

After reading the Wyoming article, and then the mention of their stadium (listed capacity 32,580), I got curious and just had to go look at the attendance numbers for Wyoming. I had no idea what I would find, but would like to share a few interesting tidbits.

I used two years (2014-2015) instead of one so there would be a home game for each of their listed rivalry games. The average attendance for Wyoming over two years was 18,830, basically the same as MSU's 18,749. Interesting.

But what really jumped out was the Wyoming home games that had the largest attendance each year. It was Montana (25,343) in 2014 and North Dakota (23,669) in 2015 -- two Big Sky teams!

The article stated "Fans who expect to see traditional rivalries such as Colorado State, Air Force and New Mexico would be lost."

The home attendance for their stated rivalry games was New Mexico (18,723), Colorado State (18,682) and Air Force (21,246). The Montana game drew 4,000 to 6,000 more than these other games. I could foresee a couple of rivalries in the making if the Big Sky allowed the Montana teams to play Wyoming each year.

Just some fun numbers to think about.

As well, Bozeman was listed as a town without a major airport. It said that Wyoming uses the Denver airport. How many direct flights are there each day between DIA and Bozeman? At least eight? Does not seem like an issue.

Go Cats!

[GetEm_Griz]

Not to mention that UW would immediately have one of the largest FCS stadiums if they did make the move. Who has been to a game at War Memorial stadium? How is it overall from an atmosphere standpoint?

I went to War Memorial when the Griz played Wyoming in 2014. Compared to Washington-Grizzly Stadium's atmosphere? It was pretty quiet. It was pretty easy to have a conversation with someone while WYO fans were yelling. It got loud at points but nothing that could cause any problems. War Memorial wasn't very intimidating.

[Mr Lisle]

Has any FBS school ever dropped to FCS???


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Maybe not technically, but this is as close as you can get. The griz were a University Division team (top tier) from 1939-1962. From 1951 to 1961 they were members of the Major College Mountain States (AKA "Skyline") Division. In 1962 they became a Major College (top tier) Independent. In 1963 they DROPPED to the Small College Division and joined the Big Sky Conference. This morphed to Division II then the whole conference moved to Division 1AA in 1975. That then became the FCS.
I've always gotten a kick out of how the griz parade their all-time CAT-griz record out. Most of them don't realize in today's terms it would be FBS Montana playing NAIA Montana State from 1939-1962. In 1958 for instance, the griz schedule looked very much like a Mountain West Conference schedule today plus the Bobcats.

[Mr Lisle]

Has any FBS school ever dropped to FCS???


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Maybe not technically, but this is as close as you can get. The griz were a University Division team (top tier) from 1939-1962. From 1951 to 1961 they were members of the Major College Mountain States (AKA "Skyline") Division. In 1962 they became a Major College (top tier) Independent. In 1963 they DROPPED to the Small College Division and joined the Big Sky Conference. This morphed to Division II then the whole conference moved to Division 1AA in 1975. That then became the FCS.
I've always gotten a kick out of how the griz parade their all-time CAT-griz record out. Most of them don't realize in today's terms it would be FBS Montana playing NAIA Montana State from 1939-1962. In 1958 for instance, the griz schedule looked very much like a Mountain West Conference schedule today plus the Bobcats.

Ooops. I should have mentioned...in 1958 the NAIA team beat the FBS 20-6!!!

[BelgradeBobcat]

http://www.stadiumjourney.com/stadiums/ ... adium-s495

Went to War Memorial when the Bobcats last played them (2003?). It's not great. It's not terrible. It is old. The grandstands on either side are impressive but the ends are open so the sound escapes and wind comes right through. If they were in the Big Sky, their nearest rival would be Northern Colorado. That's quite a stadium contrast there.

Doesn't Wyoming have a pretty rich booster base? I'm sure they'll do whatever's necessary to keep them FBS and in the Mountain West.

[Cataholic]

This is an interesting topic. The points above all are very valid. I have never been an advocate for MSU to move to the FBS, but we really compare well to Wyoming and Idaho. How cool would a new FBS conference be with MSU, UM, Idaho, Wyoming and North Dakota be! Steal away North Dakota State, South Dakota State and maybe Northern Iowa. EWU has quality teams but that stadium just can't pass for FBS. All a pipe dream but that would be a cool. An FBS conference where we could compete for the conference title from day one!

[Montanabob]

The answer is in coach Bohl's response, " we can do it with the right coaching and recruiting" and that is paraphrased liberally by me. Fact is, in a year or two we will know if they get back above the .500 and win a bowl game. If not, FCS is a viable solution or a new FBS unlikely BSC hybrid.

Not that the 29500+ seat stadium is selling out, but the highest home attendance in 2014 was when the grizzlies played there. In 2015, the highest home game attendance was for fcs north dakota. So much for a loss of revenue from ticket sales. They are averaging under 20000 at home games and the mountain lost conference only averages 26k, but that includes the BSU Broncos which probably raises the away game average by 5000 (I'd have to fact check with my sister on that). Puts them on par with the top tiered fcs for attendance.

March will decide idaho and new mexico's relegation from the sun bolt and perhaps the thoughts of a new middle tier FBS.

[Bobcat4Ever]

... They are averaging under 20000 at home games and the mountain lost conference only averages 26k, but that includes the BSU Broncos which probably raises the away game average by 5000 (I'd have to fact check with my sister on that). ...

To answer your question about Boise St., the attendance at Wyoming for Boise was only 15,821 and at Boise they drew 31,946. Obviously the Montana schools would be strong in Wyoming, but I am surprised at the North Dakota attendance since that wasn't even Craig Bohl's previous school. I was just amused by the article that wanted nothing to do with the Big Sky, yet those games were by far their best attended each of the last two years.

The rivalry games without which Wyoming would "be lost" only averaged 19,550. The Montana game drew 5,793 more than that.

When some more of the realignment shakes out I think the bigger state schools with good facilities in the contiguous states of North and South Dakota, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana etc. will be in a very good position.

Go Cats!

[Montanabob]

... They are averaging under 20000 at home games and the mountain lost conference only averages 26k, but that includes the BSU Broncos which probably raises the away game average by 5000 (I'd have to fact check with my sister on that). ...

To answer your question about Boise St., the attendance at Wyoming for Boise was only 15,821 and at Boise they drew 31,946. Obviously the Montana schools would be strong in Wyoming, but I am surprised at the North Dakota attendance since that wasn't even Craig Bohl's previous school. I was just amused by the article that wanted nothing to do with the Big Sky, yet those games were by far their best attended each of the last two years.

The rivalry games without which Wyoming would "be lost" only averaged 19,550. The Montana game drew 5,793 more than that.

When some more of the realignment shakes out I think the bigger state schools with good facilities in the contiguous states of North and South Dakota, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana etc. will be in a very good position.

Go Cats!

You missed all the sarcasm in that comment. All.of the Mountain lost gets an extra 5 k in attendance from BSU being in the conference. They average over 35k at home and travel well.

[Rich K]

This is an interesting topic. The points above all are very valid. I have never been an advocate for MSU to move to the FBS, but we really compare well to Wyoming and Idaho. How cool would a new FBS conference be with MSU, UM, Idaho, Wyoming and North Dakota be! Steal away North Dakota State, South Dakota State and maybe Northern Iowa. EWU has quality teams but that stadium just can't pass for FBS. All a pipe dream but that would be a cool. An FBS conference where we could compete for the conference title from day one!

I've never been convinced moving to FBS would be a good move for MSU and UM. HOWEVER it does appear like college football is nearing an inevitable shakeup as the power 5 conferences are flooding the zone with money that the schools like Wyoming and Idaho can't hope to match. When that shakeup occurs I would love if MSU and UM end up in a conference like you suggest. Form the conference first and worry about a tournament to crown a divison (whatever it ends up being called) champion later.

p.s. Toss Colorado State and the Air Force Academy into that conference and I'd pay twice as much for season tickets.

[PapaG]

Doesn't Wyoming have a pretty rich booster base? I'm sure they'll do whatever's necessary to keep them FBS and in the Mountain West.

That to me is why they shouldn't move down. The MWC is an established G5 conference and makes money.

Idaho, on the other hand, I can't name their conference off the top of my head, other than they have no regional rivals in it and App State smashed them last fall.

[seataccat]

Has any FBS school ever dropped to FCS???


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The entire Ivy League dropped from 1A to 1AA in 1982.

[77matcat]

Well. So it has happened before. Will Wyoming see the light.


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[Rich K]

Good news: Some people in Wyoming see the light.

Bad news: One of them is this guy.
http://trib.com/opinion/columns/groose- ... bb0cc.html

The folks on the Cowboy football fan forum don't think much of his thinking.
http://www.wyonation.com/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=13835