Football Recruiting

Brick · Post by **Brick** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:45 pm

Savage doesn't have the grades and doesn't like to work very hard in the gym! He isn't MSU quality.

CatFanatic · Post by **CatFanatic** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:49 pm

Thanks Brick. I didn't know that. I just knew he was a stud running back for CMR.

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:50 pm

To provide a little information on what happens during recruiting (please point out where I am off).

Almost every university is the same.
Assistant coaches are assigned areas of the nation. Their job is to find the recruits and players to focus on both this year and next (keeping a futures list).
For MSU I believe there is one coach assigned to Orange county (CA).
one coach assigned to San Diego county
one coach assigned to Northern Cal (Sacramento, Bakerfield, etc)
one coach assigned to Montana and Washington - I believe McEndo
one coach assigned to (and on and on).
Multiple areas in the country just don't have coaches assigned because of lack to coaches/time/money.

The head coach (Kramer) does not tend to have a specific assignment. He is the closer.

The assisant coach is tasked with getting to know the kid, coach, and parents of the players. They go to HS and Junior college coaches and kids are called to the coaches office to talk to recruiters (our coaches and other university coaches). They will make offical visits to the family if it gets serious and stays in touch with the player via phone constantly. For someone they want, they call at least weekly and if undecided and really wanted, daily during key times (when allowed by the rules of NCAA recruiting). There are dead periods where a kid is left to have some peace and family time.

The coaches meet weekly to go over the list (in the off season) and update their positions lists (adding and removing). Typically they keep this on a white board in an office with notes (not open to the public).

They will keep a list of players by position as to how they have them ranked to each other and update the ranking as they get information.
For each position they will have the number of scholarships they have available/projected. Once they get a commitment and the scholarhip (or two) is gone for that position, it's lights out. The scholarships available are setup about Nov/Dec as to what number goes to each position and whether it is to be a transfer or HS player.

Kramer has said he likes to make the family visit when the scholarship is offered. Typically this visit for most universities is always the Head Coach, with the assistant for that area (that the family knows) and very possibly another coach (three total).

If it's a key player and undecided, the assistant will make revisits. Some universities will have the head coach make revisits alone (personal touch). If they are multi-sport players, you will see the assistant coach and possibly the head coach attend a basketball game or two to show interest.

An offer can be made for a short time frame or it is left on the table for a long time if a key recruit. For the short time frame player, if it's not taken within a week, it is offered to the next on the list.

Typically when a player makes an official visit, he has an offer available. If not accepted, the next weekend a player in the same position list makes a visit and has the same offer made to them. Only one will be taken (the first to accept), then the other has the offer withdrawn. They are typically offered then a walk-on spot if still wanted.

Once an offer is accepted, the assistant coach will continue to make visits and call the recruit. This is because until they sign the LOI, they can change their minds. Other universities will still be calling them if they really like them. Some players will continue to make offical visits to schools. The assitant coach's task is to make sure the recruit does not change his mind (especially since you have then removed your offer to the next kid on the list).

As I indicated, they will have a this year list and a next year list started. During a player's junior year and senior year, a lot of kids have a video highlight tape made (now changing to DVD). They send this to the universities that they are interested in. Possibly up to 20 schools. It's a 10 to 15 minute show of highlights followed by a full game on the same media. They will also give copies to their high school coach for when visiting university coaches come by and ask them what they have that looks good. Another way to get a player's name on the list is the MSU summer camp (i.e. Bolton was one such player).

A lot of players the coaches are going out to see how are on their list after seeing them on a highlights video or camp. Others will be discovered when they go to a coach at a school and see their video there. It's getting harder and harder for a kid without a tape to be recruited because of the lack of time by the coaches.

For the Febuary signing period, most are JC transfers and HS players. Some drop-downs. More drop-downs are available after Spring practices and Div-I players are disappointed at the schools they are at, or there is a coaching change that they don't like, or they get into the dog house.

cornbreadfred · Post by **cornbreadfred** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:22 pm

The Cats send four coaches to Cali, Kramer included

SteelheadBum · Post by **SteelheadBum** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:06 pm

Uhh, Cornbread, who the F*%#* cares if Coack K et. al. goes to California?!?!?!!? Go take a look at every PAC 10, WAC and Big Sky player roster. What state dominates each list?? Clue: not Montana. Maybe the griz would be smart to pick up some O & D linemen & receivers from that state.......Oh, that's right, Californians are not welcome at grizville. I'm happy with Californians playing for MSU AND I love our Montana kids too, who by the way, all appreciate the opportunity MSU offers them academically & athletically. GO CATS!!

Post by **SonomaCat** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:14 pm

So four MSU coaches scout a geographic area with 30 million people. That seems ... perfectly reasonable. How many MSU coaches scout in Montana, which has less than 1 million people? I'm betting the ratio of MSU coaches scouting to high school players in Montana is exponentially higher than CA.

Apologies if pointing out the population of the third largest state by geography and largest? state by population throws a wrench in whatever silly "evil California/evil coaches" conspiracy was in the works there.

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:31 pm

I understand that the Cats have committed 3 coaches full-time to Montana.

Cat in SoDak · Post by **Cat in SoDak** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:41 pm

Nobody is denying the fact that MSU has lots of Californians (over 30, I believe) and less Montana kids than UM. It takes time to turn around in-state recruiting. However, there were 12 Californians on the UM roster this year, including 6 starters and the back up QB.

So, considering a little over a quarter of the Griz starters are from the Golden State, it seems a little hypocritical to condemn MSU for pulling from the same area.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:56 pm

Cat in SoDak wrote:Nobody is denying the fact that MSU has lots of Californians (over 30, I believe) and less Montana kids than UM. It takes time to turn around in-state recruiting. However, there were 12 Californians on the UM roster this year, including 6 starters and the back up QB.

So, considering a little over a quarter of the Griz starters are from the Golden State, it seems a little hypocritical to condemn MSU for pulling from the same area.

The silly/bizarre argument that I've heard in the past is the some UM fans claim superiority over MSU because, even though they have just as many out-of-state players on their team, the fact that MSU recruits more intensely in California than UM is somehow a material difference. They scatter their recruiting efforts over a couple different states and pull out-of-staters from a wider recruiting area, whereas MSU focuses their recruiting efforts in small geographic areas. Both methods result in the same number of out-of-state recuits, but one method is probably a bit cheaper (smaller geographic area).

It's just one of those desperate reaches to put down MSU, just like many other hollow arguments.

MSU and UM have roughly the same number of Montanans on their rosters, and both probably played roughly the same number of in-state and out-of-state kids over the last couple of years. Because some Montanans have an unhealthy obsession (a topic for another thread) regarding the evil nature of all things from California, though, the "MSU recruits in CA" putdown manages to maintain life on wobbly legs that no reasonable person not attached to the Cat/Griz rivalry would be able to make any sense of.

So, yes, MSU has a lot of kids from CA (from many very, very good families). UM has more kids from WA and CO. For those who don't otherwise know the difference, all of those places are outside of MT, so how a distinction can be made between any of them for chest-thumping purposes is well beyond my understanding.

GOKATS · Post by **GOKATS** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:44 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:
Cat in SoDak wrote:Nobody is denying the fact that MSU has lots of Californians (over 30, I believe) and less Montana kids than UM. It takes time to turn around in-state recruiting. However, there were 12 Californians on the UM roster this year, including 6 starters and the back up QB.

So, considering a little over a quarter of the Griz starters are from the Golden State, it seems a little hypocritical to condemn MSU for pulling from the same area.
The silly/bizarre argument that I've heard in the past is the some UM fans claim superiority over MSU because, even though they have just as many out-of-state players on their team, the fact that MSU recruits more intensely in California than UM is somehow a material difference. They scatter their recruiting efforts over a couple different states and pull out-of-staters from a wider recruiting area, whereas MSU focuses their recruiting efforts in small geographic areas. Both methods result in the same number of out-of-state recuits, but one method is probably a bit cheaper (smaller geographic area).

It's just one of those desperate reaches to put down MSU, just like many other hollow arguments.

MSU and UM have roughly the same number of Montanans on their rosters, and both probably played roughly the same number of in-state and out-of-state kids over the last couple of years. Because some Montanans have an unhealthy obsession (a topic for another thread) regarding the evil nature of all things from California, though, the "MSU recruits in CA" putdown manages to maintain life on wobbly legs that no reasonable person not attached to the Cat/Griz rivalry would be able to make any sense of.

So, yes, MSU has a lot of kids from CA (from many very, very good families). UM has more kids from WA and CO. For those who don't otherwise know the difference, all of those places are outside of MT, so how a distinction can be made between any of them for chest-thumping purposes is well beyond my understanding.

cat_man_08 · Post by **cat_man_08** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:25 pm

bozbobcat wrote:
Swilly3224 wrote:Savage has too many off the field problems to even be considered to UM or MSU
What kind of problems are these? Does he get bad grades, is he a poor citizen, or is it something else?

He broke his hand four days before CMR played (and lost

) to GFH in a fight. I have also heard of other situations where he has gotten into problems.

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:27 pm

Didn't wolfman guarantee that selle wasn't going to UM? You let me down wolfie...what gives?

cornbreadfred · Post by **cornbreadfred** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:11 pm

First, I have nothing against California kids or any other out of staters for that matter. Although, I would like to see Kramer recruit Montana kids a lot harder than he already does. To point out a statement made earlier, UM Started 8 MT kids on D, (Both Thomas Boys, Tuff Harris, Ryan, McIntyre, Spencer, Murphy, Mullins), MSU only started 3 (Marudas, Mollohan, Papich)

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:42 pm

cornbreadfred wrote:First, I have nothing against California kids or any other out of staters for that matter. Although, I would like to see Kramer recruit Montana kids a lot harder than he already does. To point out a statement made earlier, UM Started 8 MT kids on D, (Both Thomas Boys, Tuff Harris, Ryan, McIntyre, Spencer, Murphy, Mullins), MSU only started 3 (Marudas, Mollohan, Papich)

And our defense was better than theirs was.

It still boils down to the fact that it doesn't matter how hard Kramer recruits in Montana, he is still fighting an uphill battle when it comes down to in-state recruits. See: Andrew Selle.

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:02 pm

cornbreadfred wrote:First, I have nothing against California kids or any other out of staters for that matter. Although, I would like to see Kramer recruit Montana kids a lot harder than he already does. To point out a statement made earlier, UM Started 8 MT kids on D, (Both Thomas Boys, Tuff Harris, Ryan, McIntyre, Spencer, Murphy, Mullins), MSU only started 3 (Marudas, Mollohan, Papich)

Question for Mr. Cornbread: So which of those kids from UM were not recruited by MSU? My guess is that all of them were.

Question #2: Out of Marudas/Mollohan/Papich, which of those were recruited by UM? My guess 1 (Mac).

So using that logic, it looks like MSU is recruiting a lot more Montana kids than UM, but just not as successfully.

I would love to hear your respnse to my thesis, and your take. I would also appreciate it if you could respond in a civil (non-smack) manner.

whitetrashgriz · Post by **whitetrashgriz** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:50 am

this is a dumb argument. i personally dont give a ****** when they give us a hard time about californians. last time i checked, recruiting is about trying to get the best kid possible at the position that you need him. and if montana was puttin' out all the best kids in the country, then all the coaches would be here. and i'm curious, does this only count for football? 'cause the last time i checked, basketball rosters aren't exactly flooded with homegrown kids! pretty sure the griz have a few from washington and cali on their rosters. we do to, but we already know that we are morons for recruiting out of state, just wanted to fill you in that you just might be morons too!

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:14 am

whitetrashgriz wrote:this is a dumb argument. i personally dont give a ****** when they give us a hard time about californians. last time i checked, recruiting is about trying to get the best kid possible at the position that you need him. and if montana was puttin' out all the best kids in the country, then all the coaches would be here. and i'm curious, does this only count for football? 'cause the last time i checked, basketball rosters aren't exactly flooded with homegrown kids! pretty sure the griz have a few from washington and cali on their rosters. we do to, but we already know that we are morons for recruiting out of state, just wanted to fill you in that you just might be morons too!

Of course it's a dumb argument. When you watch the likes of the "thug gangsta" Cali kids (as they, as well as some fellow Cat fans, so eloquently state) beat the hell out of their team on the field, they need to grasp for anything possible to try and deride them. Logistics don't prevail with the griz fans who post this drivel. We're talking about a state that has about 40 times the population of our own and when you throw that number out, it's no surprise that you can find quite a few gems who can play on the gridiron.

IDEALLY, I'd love to see 22 starters introduce themselves along with their native Montana roots, but that's a pipe dream.

Kramer and Co. are still going through the doldrums of getting more Montana kids to commit to us. The gap is slowly closing but we're still going to have to realize that the griz will probably outrecruit us in-state for a few more years.

There's a crop of about 10-12 (this is just a guess) of Montana players that seem to be on both team's radar.

The griz got Bender, another kid from Thompson Falls (is that where he's from), and now Selle.

The Cats have a verbal from Desin. We are also in the running (and maybe even favored) with Verlanic from Drummond, Larson from Cut Bank, Kramer is friends of the family of the big kid from Glendive, and the Miles City fella seems to be showing interest. I'm sure there are plenty of others but I can't think of them right now.

We're getting there but it's been a slow process.

LuvDaCats · Post by **LuvDaCats** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:13 am

cat_man_08 wrote:
bozbobcat wrote:
Swilly3224 wrote:Savage has too many off the field problems to even be considered to UM or MSU
What kind of problems are these? Does he get bad grades, is he a poor citizen, or is it something else?
He broke his hand four days before CMR played (and lost ) to GFH in a fight. I have also heard of other situations where he has gotten into problems.

Does Bozeman need another Savage with a reputation like that?

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:53 am

I still think that Cats should go back to recruiting Minnesota. We got a lot of good players from the Minneapolis area, and quite frankly they fit in better then the California players. Look at NDSU’s roster, most of them were Minnesota guys. NDSU is in their 2nd year of 1-AA football and they have been ranked in the top 15 already! I think they might have something figured out over there. It turns out that Cali isn’t the only state that has good football players!

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:10 am

mquast53000 wrote:I still think that Cats should go back to recruiting Minnesota. We got a lot of good players from the Minneapolis area, and quite frankly they fit in better then the California players. Look at NDSU’s roster, most of them were Minnesota guys. NDSU is in their 2nd year of 1-AA football and they have been ranked in the top 15 already! I think they might have something figured out over there. It turns out that Cali isn’t the only state that has good football players!

I know Brent was from Minn.
What others have we gotten from there in the past (in particular speed guys)?
Also, were the coaches recruiting there Kramer guys or did we stop going there once Kramer came and the coaches that knew Minnesota left?