UM Champions Center

[Griznationalist]

I'll give um credit for coming so far in such a short amount of time. You guys have come so far since the 1990's when your football program started.

Interestingly, BEFORE the 1990s, Montana led the series over State by a 56-32 margin. That was through 1989. I know what comes next. Someone will cherry pick a 20-year period out of the decade where if you start it and stop it in just the right year, the Cats appeared competitive. For a program that "started" in the 1990s, how did it get credit for 56 wins in the Griz-Cat rivalry before 1990?

"A 20-year period out of a decade..." I hope I never have one of those.

How about a 30-year period? From 1956-85 it was MSU 22, um 8. It's um 31, MSU 26 since MSU joined the NCAA and the playing field was made level. Since then, each team has two national titles. MSU has 15 BSC titles um has 18. It's one of the closest and best rivalries in the nation.

What is even crazier to fathom, MSU did all of this including the stadium improvements without one main benefactor like the Griz had with Uncle Denny in Missoula. Can you imagine where the Griz would be without Uncle Denny?

By the way, guess who has the longest current streak of winning seasons in the Big Sky? It is Montana State University!

I think you may be making some erroneous assumptions. Following WWII until the mid-80s MSU not just spent more, but spent substantially more, on their football program than UM did. UM seriously considered dropping football during MSU's "reign" because it was not a priority. Washington's in-kind donation in building the stadium was to a large extent evening the playing field between the two schools, but once it did it jump started UM to where it is today.

You completely missed my point. We built our program with our own money. We did not have an Uncle Denny to build us a stadium. Take away Uncle Denny and the Griz would be an afterthought. Isn't it a more impressive accomplishment that the Cats have one the premier facilities in the Big Sky without having an Uncle Denny?

Martel gave more to the MSU stadium renovation than Washington gave to the UM stadium construction. Washington bid on and built the stadium for payment and discounted the price (which got his name on it). Until the new Champions Center, Washington was no more of a sugar daddy than Martel, despite the Bobcat Nation version of folklore.

[Cataholic]

I'll give um credit for coming so far in such a short amount of time. You guys have come so far since the 1990's when your football program started.

Interestingly, BEFORE the 1990s, Montana led the series over State by a 56-32 margin. That was through 1989. I know what comes next. Someone will cherry pick a 20-year period out of the decade where if you start it and stop it in just the right year, the Cats appeared competitive. For a program that "started" in the 1990s, how did it get credit for 56 wins in the Griz-Cat rivalry before 1990?

"A 20-year period out of a decade..." I hope I never have one of those.

How about a 30-year period? From 1956-85 it was MSU 22, um 8. It's um 31, MSU 26 since MSU joined the NCAA and the playing field was made level. Since then, each team has two national titles. MSU has 15 BSC titles um has 18. It's one of the closest and best rivalries in the nation.

What is even crazier to fathom, MSU did all of this including the stadium improvements without one main benefactor like the Griz had with Uncle Denny in Missoula. Can you imagine where the Griz would be without Uncle Denny?

By the way, guess who has the longest current streak of winning seasons in the Big Sky? It is Montana State University!

I think you may be making some erroneous assumptions. Following WWII until the mid-80s MSU not just spent more, but spent substantially more, on their football program than UM did. UM seriously considered dropping football during MSU's "reign" because it was not a priority. Washington's in-kind donation in building the stadium was to a large extent evening the playing field between the two schools, but once it did it jump started UM to where it is today.

You completely missed my point. We built our program with our own money. We did not have an Uncle Denny to build us a stadium. Take away Uncle Denny and the Griz would be an afterthought. Isn't it a more impressive accomplishment that the Cats have one the premier facilities in the Big Sky without having an Uncle Denny?

Martel gave more to the MSU stadium renovation than Washington gave to the UM stadium construction. Washington bid on and built the stadium for payment and discounted the price (which got his name on it). Until the new Champions Center, Washington was no more of a sugar daddy than Martel, despite the Bobcat Nation version of folklore.

Next you are going to tell me the tooth fairy is real too...

The Grizzlies tried to build a new facility for over a decade. The old facility, Dornblaser, was one of the worst in the Big Sky. After a scandal with Swarthout, there was even a push to kill athletics at U of M. A savior by the name of Dennis Washington donated a third of the cost to build Washington Grizzly stadium. Following is an article from the Misoulian about the stadium. A Grizzly great, Brad Salonen even gives Washington credit for basically saving the program.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/um-s-w ... 002e0.html

Go to your cesspool at egriz and your fan base also credits Denny for much of your success:

http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?t=41289

As for your comment about Martel, to put Martel and Washington in the same category is laughable. Martel contributed $50,000 to the capital campaign. On one of the stadium expansions, Martel was the contractor and the project was over budget. Instead of forcing the school to come up with the cost overage, he donated the amount. It was substantial and we are very fortunate to have him, but it was no where near one-third of the cost of the project.

[Griznationalist]

You are wrong on the Msrtel gift. He gave more than the discount that Washington provided. You don't get a field named after you for $50K. But you are very entertaining! The sugar daddy myth that you promulgate about the stadium in Missoula is just a search for the reason for Griz success against the Cats, kind of like the truthers' and the birthers' theories about 9/11 or Kenya/Hawaii. But it provides for entertaining tales, even though your facts are contorted.

[Griznationalist]

http://www.bobcatnation.com/bobcatbb/vi ... 4&start=20

The entire profit on the construction job was the gift in both Martel's and Washington's case. We're talking two renovations worth in Bozeman. If you don't think it was worth $1 million (same as Washington's gift in the UM stadium construction), then you apparently don't think.

There are no unique sugar daddies in Missoula. Bozeman gots 'em too. The stadium in Missoula seated 13,000 when it opened and was expanded to almost 26,000 through season-ticket revenue, not gifts.

[Griznationalist]

http://www.bobcatnation.com/bobcatbb/vi ... 4&start=20

The entire profit on the construction job was the gift in both Martel's and Washington's case. We're talking two renovations worth in Bozeman. If you don't think it was worth $1 million (same as Washington's gift in the UM stadium construction), then you apparently don't think.

There are no unique sugar daddies in Missoula. Bozeman gots 'em too. The stadium in Missoula seated 13,000 when it opened and was expanded to almost 26,000 through season-ticket revenue, not gifts.

[Cataholic]

http://www.bobcatnation.com/bobcatbb/vi ... 4&start=20

The entire profit on the construction job was the gift in both Martel's and Washington's case. We're talking two renovations worth in Bozeman. If you don't think it was worth $1 million (same as Washington's gift in the UM stadium construction), then you apparently don't think.

There are no unique sugar daddies in Missoula. Bozeman gots 'em too. The stadium in Missoula seated 13,000 when it opened and was expanded to almost 26,000 through season-ticket revenue, not gifts.

Apparently they don't make you take a finance class in Missoula to graduate. You are aware that $1 million in 1985 is considerably more than $1 million in 2010? That is a difference of 25 years... It is called Time Value of Money. Your initial stadium construction cost of $3 million yielded 12,000 seats of which Denny put in $1 million. That is one third if you also missed math class. Please show us where Martel did something on that magnitude.

By the way, I referenced a news article about the initial cost and contribution by Denny. You were kind enough to post some message board fodder, but it probably is not as accurate as the Missoulian. There is no question that Martel has donated money, but to put him in the same category as Washington is laughable.

Do you really think the Griz would be in the state they are today if Uncle Denny did not pony up one third of the stadium cost? This all happened after a decade of failed fundraising, poor football teams and a push eliminate athletics at U of M.

I can't comment on the Kenya/Hawaii issue. Afraid that we don't get the liberal education you guys do in Missoula.

[[cat_bracket]]

Football is #1 at um. Next is basketball. Third is academics. I have no problem with that, but there is a problem with that.

The grizz need to pump money into sports to stay at the top or risk a further decline in enrollment. Let's not kid ourselves, Missoula is a party town and um is a party school. Successful sports, and the great marketing that goes with it, and partying go hand in hand. Take away the sports and the party students go elsewhere.

MSU does fine with or without sports, but having strong teams certainly helps and MSU should continue to support its athletic programs as they will help with continued growth, but they're not a necessity like at um.

[blueandgoldblitz]

I'm glad the U of M is building an athletics center while their academics side is losing more and more students (some would say failing) at what a university is supposed to do. Meanwhile, MSU is fundraising with the "What it Takes" program in order to make the academic side even more inviting (and to accommodate their surging enrollment) to prospective students. U of M is worried about weight rooms, coaches offices, locker rooms, and shrines to the past for the small percentage of student athletes that use them. MSU is building new, state of the art business buildings, engineering buildings, and dorms for the vast majority of students that need them.

I wonder who has their priorities straight? But by god, you guys still have Monte!

[HelenaCat]

Football is #1 at um. Next is basketball. Third is academics. I have no problem with that, but there is a problem with that.

The grizz need to pump money into sports to stay at the top or risk a further decline in enrollment. Let's not kid ourselves, Missoula is a party town and um is a party school. Successful sports, and the great marketing that goes with it, and partying go hand in hand. Take away the sports and the party students go elsewhere.

MSU does fine with or without sports, but having strong teams certainly helps and MSU should continue to support its athletic programs as they will help with continued growth, but they're not a necessity like at um.

Exactly! Big differences in our two universities and really the main reason MSU is growing and has surpassed um by a substantial margin given the big discrepancy the other direction for many years.

[grizatwork]

Why are cat fans criticizing and griz fans apologizing for Denny Washington? Every school has a sugar daddy to one degree or another. Where would Oregon be without Phil Knight? Oklahoma State without Pickens? I for one will say publicly "Thank You Mr. Washington! Is there anything else you want us to name after you?" Don't forget that the education building is named after his wife. The Washington foundation has been good to UM both athletically and academically. He is not the only "sugar daddy". John Hoyt left a million for the athletic program. The Davidson's have been good to the university both athletically and academically.

To put Missoula as a "party town" and UM as a "party school" minimizes the numerous lawyers, pharmacists, physical therapists. MBA's, teachers, foresters, etc who have done very well with their degerees. from there. It would be the same as calling MSU an Ag school and not recognizing the engineers, architects, teachers, business majors, etc who have excelled with their degrees.

I get it. Griz hate cats so therefore everything from Bozeman is inferior. Cats hate griz so everything from Missoula is inferior. You guys go on playing gotcha back and forth. I am going to go have a beer with my brothers who both graduated from MSU and talk about the games both teams have tomorrow.

[BR GRIZ]

Football is #1 at um. Next is basketball. Third is academics. I have no problem with that, but there is a problem with that.

The grizz need to pump money into sports to stay at the top or risk a further decline in enrollment. Let's not kid ourselves, Missoula is a party town and um is a party school. Successful sports, and the great marketing that goes with it, and partying go hand in hand. Take away the sports and the party students go elsewhere.

MSU does fine with or without sports, but having strong teams certainly helps and MSU should continue to support its athletic programs as they will help with continued growth, but they're not a necessity like at um.

It depends on what you mean when you state "pump money into sports." UM receives a lot more in the form of ticket sales and contributions to fund its athletic budget than MSU does. MSU receives a lot more in institutional support and student fees to fund its budget than UM does. If you look at institutional support, i.e. the number of tax dollars being used to support athletics, MSU "pumps" a lot more into sports than UM does because UMs athletic programs (primarily football) do a lot better job of funding themselves. For 2014 UM's athletic budget was about 10% higher than MSU's, but it "pumped" in about 25% less in institutional funds to get there.

[Hawks86]

More enrollment = more student fees.

[Cataholic]

Why are cat fans criticizing and griz fans apologizing for Denny Washington? Every school has a sugar daddy to one degree or another. Where would Oregon be without Phil Knight? Oklahoma State without Pickens? I for one will say publicly "Thank You Mr. Washington! Is there anything else you want us to name after you?" Don't forget that the education building is named after his wife. The Washington foundation has been good to UM both athletically and academically. He is not the only "sugar daddy". John Hoyt left a million for the athletic program. The Davidson's have been good to the university both athletically and academically.

To put Missoula as a "party town" and UM as a "party school" minimizes the numerous lawyers, pharmacists, physical therapists. MBA's, teachers, foresters, etc who have done very well with their degerees. from there. It would be the same as calling MSU an Ag school and not recognizing the engineers, architects, teachers, business majors, etc who have excelled with their degrees.

I get it. Griz hate cats so therefore everything from Bozeman is inferior. Cats hate griz so everything from Missoula is inferior. You guys go on playing gotcha back and forth. I am going to go have a beer with my brothers who both graduated from MSU and talk about the games both teams have tomorrow.

Agree with the second paragraph of your post. You are right. As for the rest, I was acting in response to the know it all blowhard Griz fan. He is apparently downplaying the contributions of Uncle Denny. Glad you feel comfortable with it. He made some inaccurate comments about our stadium so I set him straight.

Sorry you didn't care for the back and forth exchange. Next time, go to another post! Didn't care for your tone and like you said, we don't like Griz. I wonder why??? Couldn't be the sanctimonious and holier than though attitude. I forgot we were on a Bobcat board. Next time I will watch what I say when setting a Bobcat post. Why don't you take this post and go ask your fans what they think of your new correctional facility?

[Griznationalist]

This thread is funny. Basically, it's full of Cat fans acknowledging that Montana is the superior school for student-athlete performance. Not only does Montana lead the BSC in all-academic student athletes, but those superior student athletes perform better on the court and on the field year after year, after year, after year, after year. As for academics apart from sports, how's the head-to-head match-up for Truman Scholars, Rhodes Scholars, Sears Interns, etc.? Slam dunk. To read Bobcat Nation, all you say you got going is enrollment. Which is bigger, Harvard or Yale? And who cares?

[Griznationalist]

This thread is funny. Basically, it's full of Cat fans acknowledging that Montana is the superior school for student-athlete performance. Not only does Montana lead the BSC in all-academic student athletes, but those superior student athletes perform better on the court and on the field year after year, after year, after year, after year. As for academics apart from sports, how's the head-to-head match-up for Truman Scholars, Rhodes Scholars, Sears Interns, etc.? Slam dunk. To read Bobcat Nation, all you say you got going is enrollment. Which is bigger, Harvard or Yale? And who cares?

[Hawks86]

If only there was some kind of award given to Big Sky schools that combined academics with athletics.

[Griznationalist]

If only there was some kind of award given to Big Sky schools that combined academics with athletics.

There is. Check out last semester's BSC All-Academic awards. I can post the link if you need it. UM cleaned up. Apart from athletics, count the Rhodes, Truman and Goldwater Scholars. I'm not trying to denigrate or malign MSU. It's a great university. But I am calling some of you out on your ridiculous assertions that UM is not.

[Hawks86]

If only there was some kind of award given to Big Sky schools that combined academics with athletics.

There is. Check out last semester's BSC All-Academic awards. I can post the link if you need it. UM cleaned up. Apart from athletics, count the Rhodes, Truman and Goldwater Scholars. I'm not trying to denigrate or malign MSU. It's a great university. But I am calling some of you out on your ridiculous assertions that UM is not.

I'm referring to the presidents cup. You have more academic awards than us because you have soccer and softball.

[Griznationalist]

If only there was some kind of award given to Big Sky schools that combined academics with athletics.

There is. Check out last semester's BSC All-Academic awards. I can post the link if you need it. UM cleaned up. Apart from athletics, count the Rhodes, Truman and Goldwater Scholars. I'm not trying to denigrate or malign MSU. It's a great university. But I am calling some of you out on your ridiculous assertions that UM is not.

I'm referring to the presidents cup. You have more academic awards than us because you have soccer and softball.

Soccer and softball? You have skiing and rodeo.

[Hawks86]

Those aren't Big Sky sports.