Welcome to the off-season, griz fans.

[Grizlaw]

WOW!

Another griz fan taking the arse-kicking 2 straight weeks pretty hard!

GL, of all people, you surprise me.

I'm dealing with it alright, actually. I was only pointing out what I considered to be a flawed argument (more on that below), and with the help of a few glasses of scotch, I probably threw in a little more p!ss and vinegar than I intended.

Third (no pun intended; well, on second thought...); the fact is that 2 & 3 seasons ago, while the Big Sky was a 3 way tie, the Cats got the autobid, which DOES mean, IMO, that we were the Big Sky champs. Last year, you guys were (and I believe I've stated that sentiment before) the Champs, and this year it was clearly Eastern. We're ALL so hungry for success, however, that we'll ALL claim a Big Sky title (don't act like you guys haven't been crowing about an 8th consecutive BSC Title) even when we don't win the autobid but again, IMO, the autobid recipient IS the Big Sky Champ. Since the Griz lost to BOTH teams they tied with, it isn't that big of a stretch to say you finished 3rd (and we finished 2nd).

I just think it's hard to rank the top three teams in a three-way tie for first, because to do so assumes that some conference losses are less significant than others. We all lost two conference games; are Eastern's losses less significant than ours because they came against two weaker teams (while beating their two co-champs)? I would argue not; the fact is that the entire season counts, and Eastern didn't get the job done against BSC teams precisely the same number of times during the year as we didn't. The same is true of the Cats; you beat us, but you didn't get it done against PSU (and we did). Why should beating us mean that your conference season was better than ours? The autobid is one thing; the conference only gets one, so there has to be a rule for breaking the tie for that purpose, but for purposes of conference bragging rights, I think you have to look at the entire season, not just 2 or 3 games.

The overall point of this post & this thread, GL, is that I predicted that griz fans would attempt to somehow claim superiority over the Cats, even though they were soundly beaten the last 2 weeks and really had identical success in 2005. Looks like I was just as right as my 10-2 record picking Griz games this year...

Yep...it's a rivalry; that's going to happen. Fans of both teams are always going to cling to whatever they can to claim superiority over the other (and hopefully, some will do so in a more reasonable manner than others). Should this really surprise anyone?

Sorry so many of you are having such a bad 8 days...

Thanks. Like I said, we're dealing with it.

--GL

[BobCatFan]

You should read the Egriz boards. Man, they are not happy in Griz land. Some groups are mad at the coaches while others are mad at the fans. The bandwagon has a flat and nobody knows how to fix it. It guess it takes an Engineering student for that.

[wbtfg]

Oh, by the way, does the word fan imply booing your home team?

booing offensive coordinator = yes
booing players = no

they were booing rob phenecie.

not throwing trash and tortilla shells at the home bench

So do you think that the recruits that were in attendance knew that the fans were booing the coaches and not the the players??? Doubtful.

Either way, do you think that they'd want to play in a place with such negative energy?

I hope all your recruits are currently logged on to egriz....

[Wolfman]

Hey, if it takes fans leaving in droves mid-way into the 4th quater, with the game still winable, and lots of booing, to get rid of Bobby Hauck, then I say go for it.

It ain't gonna get any better if they keep Hauck around next season. This is a slow leak, and the boat is just starting to take on water. I'm in favor of pulling the plug and starting over, like the Cats did after firing Hysell.

I tried to tell these Griz sugar coaters that Hauck would ruin this proud program, but I was called a "bad fan". Now, let these idiots gravel in their stupidity for awhile. Interesting that they don't have the gonads to show their face now, isn't it?

[Another Arrogant Griz Fan]

Look back at the first post in this thread, tacoma.

You qualify.

Get off your imaginary high horse & realize your precious team just got it's arses handed to them in back-to-back weeks; you're out of the playoffs with a WaGriz loss.

Personally, if my choices were 1) beat the Griz but miss the playoffs OR 2) lose to the Griz AND lose in the first round of the playoffs at home, I'd take option 1.

Rather than brag about LAST year(s), just start dealing with the fact that you're done precisely 1 week later than we were. The great Griz machine broke down the last 2 weeks and your 3rd place finish in the Big Sky coupled with your performance today shows that this years Griz team simply wasn't up to your standards and really was no better than the Cats' season.

Throwing out your win over a high school team, you went 7-4. The Cats went 7-4; the Eagles went 7-4. You lost to the Cats & the Eagles; deal with it.

Ok, so selectively removing games from our opponent's schedule to validate our arguments is allowed in this discussion? In that case, I'll just nullify your win over a weak SFA team. Ha! Now your record is 6-5 and we're still better.

Seriously though, it would be hard to convince anyone outside of Bozo that the Cats season was as successful as the Griz this year. The fact is that we made the playoffs and had a better record. Some more food for thought: This was the Cats self-proclaimed "best team in 20 years", and for the Griz it was a rebuilding year. So, even if you did have an equally successful season, is that really something to brag about?

[Cat in SoDak]

I think it depends on your perspective.

If you define "success" as meeting expectations, I'd say the Cats were more successful.

MSU was ranked #18 in the preseason national poll and picked to finish 3rd in the Big Sky Conference. So while not making the playoffs was a disappointment, a 7-4 record, co-BSC championship and victory over the Griz are all positives for the program.

Montana was ranked #3 in the preseason national poll and picked to finish 2nd in the Big Sky Conference. The co-BSC championship is certainly a positive, but an 8-4 record, first round home playoff loss and debacle in Bozeman certainly can't be spun as meeting expectations.

Just out of curiosity, is 2006 another rebuilding year or will you wait to see how the results play out first?

[SonomaCat]

Look back at the first post in this thread, tacoma.

You qualify.

Get off your imaginary high horse & realize your precious team just got it's arses handed to them in back-to-back weeks; you're out of the playoffs with a WaGriz loss.

Personally, if my choices were 1) beat the Griz but miss the playoffs OR 2) lose to the Griz AND lose in the first round of the playoffs at home, I'd take option 1.

Rather than brag about LAST year(s), just start dealing with the fact that you're done precisely 1 week later than we were. The great Griz machine broke down the last 2 weeks and your 3rd place finish in the Big Sky coupled with your performance today shows that this years Griz team simply wasn't up to your standards and really was no better than the Cats' season.

Throwing out your win over a high school team, you went 7-4. The Cats went 7-4; the Eagles went 7-4. You lost to the Cats & the Eagles; deal with it.

Ok, so selectively removing games from our opponent's schedule to validate our arguments is allowed in this discussion? In that case, I'll just nullify your win over a weak SFA team. Ha! Now your record is 6-5 and we're still better.

Seriously though, it would be hard to convince anyone outside of Bozo that the Cats season was as successful as the Griz this year. The fact is that we made the playoffs and had a better record. Some more food for thought: This was the Cats self-proclaimed "best team in 20 years", and for the Griz it was a rebuilding year. So, even if you did have an equally successful season, is that really something to brag about?

Apparently the concept of only comparing D-I game records is a bit too complex for Mr. Sausage Crotch (now posting under AAGF). Selectively removing games from consideration makes perfect sense if the game removed is against a school that isn't a D-I school. The same analysis could be done with I-A schools, as they could/should be excluded as well to drop the loss that really isn't indicative of anything other than the already known fact that 20 extra scholarships and ten million more dollars a year in the budget will make a team noticeably better.

Otherwise, if a NAIA team went undefeated, your logic holds that they would be a better team than the Pittsburgh Steelers, as the Steelers have a couple losses.

It's a silly debate, but if you want to make an argument that your team had a better season, you must at least be willing to do so on an apples to apples comparison. When doing that, both teams had identical records against 1-AA competition. I guess that makes it a draw.

[Wolfman]

isn't it pathetic when Griz fans use YET ANOTHER lame-*ssed excuse for the inept product they put on the field this year. Where do they get this "rebuilding year" bullsh*t? Did Don Read ever have a "rebuilding year"? Did Dennehy? Did Glenn?

Don't embarrass the many knowledgable Griz fans out here with your incessant whining about why we s_cked . It had nothing to do with re-building, and everything to do with coaching incompetancy.

[Another Arrogant Griz Fan]

I think it depends on your perspective.

If you define "success" as meeting expectations, I'd say the Cats were more successful.

MSU was ranked #18 in the preseason national poll and picked to finish 3rd in the Big Sky Conference. So while not making the playoffs was a disappointment, a 7-4 record, co-BSC championship and victory over the Griz are all positives for the program.

Montana was ranked #3 in the preseason national poll and picked to finish 2nd in the Big Sky Conference. The co-BSC championship is certainly a positive, but an 8-4 record, first round home playoff loss and debacle in Bozeman certainly can't be spun as meeting expectations.

Just out of curiosity, is 2006 another rebuilding year or will you wait to see how the results play out first?

For the context of this conversation, I was basing my definition of "success" on which team had accomplished more this season. But, since you brought the subject of expecations into the mix, we can go down that road. There isn't much analysis that goes into preseason rankings, they are basically based on where the teams finished the previous year (that is why JMU started out ranked #1). A better gauge would be fan expectations. I think we could all agree that the general consensus among Cat fans at the start of the season was that this would be "the year" for the Cats. At that time, anything short a deep playoff run would have been deemed a dissapointment. As for the Griz, we had more question marks than ever coming into the season, so expectations weren't nearly as high. And to answer your question, I will certiainly NOT consider next season another rebuilding year for the Griz, but I do think it will be for the Cats.

Apparently the concept of only comparing D-I game records is a bit too complex for Mr. Sausage Crotch (now posting under AAGF). Selectively removing games from consideration makes perfect sense if the game removed is against a school that isn't a D-I school. The same analysis could be done with I-A schools, as they could/should be excluded as well to drop the loss that really isn't indicative of anything other than the already known fact that 20 extra scholarships and ten million more dollars a year in the budget will make a team noticeably better.

Otherwise, if a NAIA team went undefeated, your logic holds that they would be a better team than the Pittsburgh Steelers, as the Steelers have a couple losses.

It's a silly debate, but if you want to make an argument that your team had a better season, you must at least be willing to do so on an apples to apples comparison. When doing that, both teams had identical records against 1-AA competition. I guess that makes it a draw.

I understand your point BAC, but answer me this: If the Cats played Ft Lewis and the Griz SFA, would there be any difference in our records? I think we would all agree that there would not. The fact is that both teams were cupcakes and would have lost to the Griz OR the Cats so it is a moot point.

[SonomaCat]

I understand your point BAC, but answer me this: If the Cats played Ft Lewis and the Griz SFA, would there be any difference in our records? I think we would all agree that there would not. The fact is that both teams were cupcakes and would have lost to the Griz OR the Cats so it is a moot point.

It's impossible to tell -- the Griz didn't play SFA. It's quite possible that SFA would have beat UM.

I'm not sure where the data got out of whack that I have no seen repeated by a couple Griz fans, but SFA was not a cupcake team. They ended up with a bad conference record (only beating Nichols State, a very tough team), but they did beat UC-Davis (a team that beat Cal Poly and Stanford) and they played some very high-profile teams very tough all season. The only team that blew them out was MSU.

Comparing Ft. Lewis and SFA as equals is absurd. A win over Ft. Lewis does not count as a legit Division I victory. A win over SFA does.

[BWahlberg]

isn't it pathetic when Griz fans use YET ANOTHER lame-*ssed excuse for the inept product they put on the field this year. Where do they get this "rebuilding year" bullsh*t? Did Don Read ever have a "rebuilding year"? Did Dennehy? Did Glenn?

Don't embarrass the many knowledgable Griz fans out here with your incessant whining about why we s_cked . It had nothing to do with re-building, and everything to do with coaching incompetancy.

Ah hah! Double posts, Wolfman you posted the exact same thing as Roaring Griz on grizzlyboards.com.

And the reply was this, YES, Read had 3 consecutive "rebuilding years" 90 - 92 where they never won more than 7 in a season, and didn't make the playoffs. So shut the hell up, b/c you don't know what you're talking about.

[WeedKillinCat]

Wasn't SFA ranked in the top 20 at one point this season?

[grizzh8r]

Wasn't SFA ranked in the top 20 at one point this season?

In week 7 they were ranked 23rd

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/rankings? ... nYear=2005

[Wolfman]

I post under NO OTHER SCREEN NAMES. I post on NO OTHER BOARDS. Just because another poster is smart enough to post similar sh*t as me, does not make him me.

Re-Max, you're getting to be annoying. You are not an athlete. Why masquerade as one? Go away.

[BWahlberg]

I know Wolfy, I hurt your feelings when I bring up little things known as "the truth," "facts," and "statistics."

And I've never pretended to be an athlete. I golf, play softball, and pickup basketball. I'm your steriotypical semi-fat guy, I have no problem with that.

I was just giving you a dose of your own medicine, you insult, and don't support many of your statements with truth, so I thought I'd lob a shot your way.

[UMclassof2002]

You should read the Egriz boards. Man, they are not happy in Griz land. Some groups are made at the coaches while others are made at the fans. The bandwagon has a flat and nobody knows how to fix. It guess it takes an Engineering student for that.

^^^^^^^^^

Tacit admission that an MSU degree can only get you a job:

A. At a gas station (Gato)
B. Driving a tow truck (nell, I'm guessing)









Take care!

[lifeloyalsigmsu]

You should read the Egriz boards. Man, they are not happy in Griz land. Some groups are made at the coaches while others are made at the fans. The bandwagon has a flat and nobody knows how to fix. It guess it takes an Engineering student for that.

^^^^^^^^^

Tacit admission that an MSU degree can only get you a job:

A. At a gas station (Gato)
B. Driving a tow truck (nell, I'm guessing)









Take care!

Actually, it's EG who signs the paychecks for his employees that pump the gas and operate the register. His employees are graduates of um.

Hope that helps.

[UMclassof2002]

You should read the Egriz boards. Man, they are not happy in Griz land. Some groups are made at the coaches while others are made at the fans. The bandwagon has a flat and nobody knows how to fix. It guess it takes an Engineering student for that.

^^^^^^^^^

Tacit admission that an MSU degree can only get you a job:

A. At a gas station (Gato)
B. Driving a tow truck (nell, I'm guessing)









Take care!

Actually, it's EG who signs the paychecks for his employees that pump the gas and operate the register. His employees are graduates of um.

Hope that helps.

EG needs a new avatar. I'll help:

[Hell's Bells]

You should read the Egriz boards. Man, they are not happy in Griz land. Some groups are made at the coaches while others are made at the fans. The bandwagon has a flat and nobody knows how to fix. It guess it takes an Engineering student for that.

^^^^^^^^^

Tacit admission that an MSU degree can only get you a job:

A. At a gas station (Gato)
B. Driving a tow truck (nell, I'm guessing)









Take care!

Actually, it's EG who signs the paychecks for his employees that pump the gas and operate the register. His employees are graduates of um.

Hope that helps.

EG needs a new avatar. I'll help:

wait thats BearBack

[El_Gato]

2002,

What's up with the personal attacks? I thought we'd been getting along swimmingly in recent weeks.

Were you one of those dUMb grads I rejected for employment recently?