Krakauer review in NYT

[SonomaCat]

This is the first I've seen of details of what is actually in the book. Sounds like it will be a rehashing for the national audience of a lot of the same things we have all heard about ... although presumably far better researched than what any of us had at our disposal in the past.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/20/books ... .html?_r=0

[tampa_griz]

It really makes you wonder how the Beau Donaldson thing would've turned out if there was never a recorded confession.

[info197176]

Another review.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... story.html

[TomCat88]

Beau Donaldson is up for parole in 2-3 months (June 10?), assuming his behavior has been good. I believe he was originally sentenced to 30 years with 20 years suspended. Of the remaining ten years he was eligible for parole in 2.5 years.

[allcat]

I have no idea what any answers are to this. Kids are going to drink. Many times when you ask a kid what they are going to do, they say get drunk. Once they are drunk, throw out any reason.

[GRIZ1STCATS2ND]

".....although presumably far better researched....."

Seriously?

[John K]

I have no idea what any answers are to this. Kids are going to drink. Many times when you ask a kid what they are going to do, they say get drunk. Once they are drunk, throw out any reason.

Lots of guys (including myself when I was that age) drink excessively on a fairly regular basis during their college years and early adulthood, and most of us have done plenty of stupid things on those occasions when we've drank too much, but there's a line that most guys won't cross, even during instances of extreme inebriation. I think it's letting guys off a bit too easy, to blame this sort of behavior on having had too much to drink.

[Sportin' Life]

I have no idea what any answers are to this. Kids are going to drink. Many times when you ask a kid what they are going to do, they say get drunk. Once they are drunk, throw out any reason.

Lots of guys (including myself when I was that age) drink excessively on a fairly regular basis during their college years and early adulthood, and most of us have done plenty of stupid things on those occasions when we've drank too much, but there's a line that most guys won't cross, even during instances of extreme inebriation. I think it's letting guys off a bit too easy, to blame this sort of behavior on having had too much to drink.

Being drunk is never an excuse to commit a crime. Any kid that commits a violent crime against someone while they are drunk deserves to be end up in prison like Beau Donaldson.

[RickRund]

Wasn't the mantra when Mel Gibson has his crash to earth that the alcohol brought out the real person.....

[allcat]

I have no idea what any answers are to this. Kids are going to drink. Many times when you ask a kid what they are going to do, they say get drunk. Once they are drunk, throw out any reason.

Lots of guys (including myself when I was that age) drink excessively on a fairly regular basis during their college years and early adulthood, and most of us have done plenty of stupid things on those occasions when we've drank too much, but there's a line that most guys won't cross, even during instances of extreme inebriation. I think it's letting guys off a bit too easy, to blame this sort of behavior on having had too much to drink.

Being drunk is never an excuse to commit a crime. Any kid that commits a violent crime against someone while they are drunk deserves to be end up in prison like Beau Donaldson.

I agree, if you do the crime, you do the time. It's a tough deal though, the girls drink too and we have seen the Duke deal and the recent one in Virginia. I'm not condoning any action here, just saying how tough an issue it is.

[catatac]

I have no idea what any answers are to this. Kids are going to drink. Many times when you ask a kid what they are going to do, they say get drunk. Once they are drunk, throw out any reason.

Lots of guys (including myself when I was that age) drink excessively on a fairly regular basis during their college years and early adulthood, and most of us have done plenty of stupid things on those occasions when we've drank too much, but there's a line that most guys won't cross, even during instances of extreme inebriation. I think it's letting guys off a bit too easy, to blame this sort of behavior on having had too much to drink.

I was gonna say..... what does getting drunk and "throwing out any reason" have to do with rape?

[allcat]

I have no idea what any answers are to this. Kids are going to drink. Many times when you ask a kid what they are going to do, they say get drunk. Once they are drunk, throw out any reason.

Lots of guys (including myself when I was that age) drink excessively on a fairly regular basis during their college years and early adulthood, and most of us have done plenty of stupid things on those occasions when we've drank too much, but there's a line that most guys won't cross, even during instances of extreme inebriation. I think it's letting guys off a bit too easy, to blame this sort of behavior on having had too much to drink.

I was gonna say..... what does getting drunk and "throwing out any reason" have to do with rape?

I think many of the rapes that occur, happen where someone is drunk. They then do things that when are sober they may think about it, they constrain themselves. I see that as a loss of reason.

[SonomaCat]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/21/us/in ... ports&_r=0

I really have no idea whether many of these scenarios (the unprosecuted and/or ignored claims) were truly rapes, and I would hate to be a person put in the situation of having to make that kind of judgment (although I am very happy that there are people out there making those hard analyses). I do think, however, that UM and Missoula are probably getting far more negative publicity as a result of this book than they really deserve. I'm sure there are individuals who deserve heaps of scorn for things that have happened, but I'm feeling bad for all of the good people at both UM and in Missoula who are being cast in a negative light merely by association right now.

I just keep thinking about MSU back in the drug ring/murder days, and cringe at the idea of somebody coming along and writing a book about all of that. It would not have been hard at all to come up with something quite marketable and quite damning that could have really been a black eye (far more so than it was, which was already more than bad enough) for both MSU and Bozeman for years to come.

[LTown Cat]

I just keep thinking about MSU back in the drug ring/murder days, and cringe at the idea of somebody coming along and writing a book about all of that. It would not have been hard at all to come up with something quite marketable and quite damning that could have really been a black eye (far more so than it was, which was already more than bad enough) for both MSU and Bozeman for years to come.

You could be right on that but I'm willing to bet that the SI article reached a much larger audience than this book ever will.

[SonomaCat]

I just keep thinking about MSU back in the drug ring/murder days, and cringe at the idea of somebody coming along and writing a book about all of that. It would not have been hard at all to come up with something quite marketable and quite damning that could have really been a black eye (far more so than it was, which was already more than bad enough) for both MSU and Bozeman for years to come.

You could be right on that but I'm willing to bet that the SI article reached a much larger audience than this book ever will.

Good point ... you may be right.

[[cat_bracket]]

I just keep thinking about MSU back in the drug ring/murder days, and cringe at the idea of somebody coming along and writing a book about all of that. It would not have been hard at all to come up with something quite marketable and quite damning that could have really been a black eye (far more so than it was, which was already more than bad enough) for both MSU and Bozeman for years to come.

You could be right on that but I'm willing to bet that the SI article reached a much larger audience than this book ever will.

I'm sure this makes me a grizz-hater (again), but a fairer comparison would be the SI story with the Time story. Both mags have 3 million subscribers and 25 million per readers per week. While the book may not sell anywhere near that many copies, it is being talked about in many major daily newspapers and other media.

I don't know of a book written about MSU's crimes, especially one by a prominent author like Krakauer. I also believe the media coverage locally and nationally has been more pronounced about the um situation.

[Sportin' Life]

I like the book so far. He's making me famous.

[[cat_bracket]]

The book is good. The main thrust is about educating people on what rapists look like in general. It isn't really about Jordan Johnson or Beau Donaldson, etc.

Pabst and Van Valkenburg are taking their lumps, but they aren't the story. To me it's more about how acquaintance rapists operate and how many of them don't even realize they're raping someone. For some it's like a game. Prosecutors and people in general don't know this and it's very interesting that way. The part on "Frank" is especially informative.

[PapaG]

I just keep thinking about MSU back in the drug ring/murder days, and cringe at the idea of somebody coming along and writing a book about all of that. It would not have been hard at all to come up with something quite marketable and quite damning that could have really been a black eye (far more so than it was, which was already more than bad enough) for both MSU and Bozeman for years to come.

You could be right on that but I'm willing to bet that the SI article reached a much larger audience than this book ever will.

Good point ... you may be right.

Even if so, the thing that I remember the most from that article were the unfortunate comments from Ashley Koon.

ETA - link to previous conversation from last April.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=32920&start=80#p515136

[SonomaCat]

I like the book so far. He's making me famous.

Are you quoted a bit from your egriz posts?