Kramer or Hauck?

longhorn_22 · Post by **longhorn_22** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:00 am

Thought this would be interesting fodder for Cat / Griz week. Got this from Efriz. Though the results would be interesting to see over here compared to over there.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:15 am

I think Hauck has the personality of a 2x4, could use some obvious work on his PR skills, but he is an amazing recruiter, and one thing for sure that his teams can say which Kramer's cant....

UM gets better as the year progresses... MSU regresses

BobCatFan · Post by **BobCatFan** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:58 am

how about a third option. Niether

longhorn_22 · Post by **longhorn_22** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:44 am

I did this poll to show how biased it is on both sites. Over on efriz Hauck is winning by a lot and over here Kramer is winning by a lot. I basically did it to show the griz fans that Hauck is not all everyone wants.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:47 am

What's interesting to me is that when I ran this poll last year, Kramer took a HUGE lead here PLUS he was ahead of Hauck on egriz for about 10 days as well! Even when it ended, Hauck didn't hold the lead that he does today.

Looks like a # of griz fans are a little more accepting of Hauck these days. Can't say I blame them.

GFGriz · Post by **GFGriz** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:08 am

El_Gato wrote:What's interesting to me is that when I ran this poll last year, Kramer took a HUGE lead here PLUS he was ahead of Hauck on egriz for about 10 days as well! Even when it ended, Hauck didn't hold the lead that he does today.

Looks like a # of griz fans are a little more accepting of Hauck these days. Can't say I blame them.

What's interesting to me is that twice as many folks on this site prefer Hauck as folks on eGriz prefer Kramer. Both sites attract fans of each team, so it's difficult to come to any solid conclusions. My take: This time of year, nothing focuses the mind of a team's fans as getting into the playoffs, and Hauck does that. What would be interesting would be to add Mike Van Diest into both sites' polls.

UpwithMontanaBoys · Post by **UpwithMontanaBoys** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:17 am

El_Gato wrote:Looks like a # of griz fans are a little more accepting of Hauck these days. Can't say I blame them.

Careful, they could take your card and privileges away for comments like that.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:29 am

There's an OCEAN between accept & like, UWMB.

elkmcc · Post by **elkmcc** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:59 pm

When Dennehey left for USU I was sure that Kramer would get offered and accept the Griz job if he wasn't offered the Cat job first. I was surprised that Kramer didn't know about Mick leaving for USU before it became public knowledge. Mick and Kramer were close friends and I would have thought Mick would have tipped him off about the opening. I might be all washed up but my feeling is Kramer would have jumped at the opportunity to coach the Griz.

It would be really interesting to know how successful Kramer would have been if he had taken the Griz job. Would he still be coaching the Griz or would he, like Glenn, have moved on to perhaps say WSU or Wyoming for that matter.

Anyway my point is Glenn (the politician) and Hauck (the recruiter) have really done nothing much more than keep the caddi on the road. Kramer has brought the Cats up by the bootstraps and transformed the Cats into a real contender. If Glenn and Hauck had accomplished in relative terms as much as Kramer has with the Cats the Griz would have more than 1 more NC trophy in the case. Just some thought for consideration before all of you throw the baby out with the bath water.

As you might guess I like Kramer and I have for many years. I also like BH and there are things about both of these gentlemen that sort of rub me the wrong way. But isn't that true of just about everyone? Well, everyone except Don Read perhaps. When you think about it if it hadn't been for Don Read both of the Montana programs could still be mired in mediocrity. Don built the Griz program that forced the Cats to raise their standards in order to compete. Don is truely a genius, a politician and a class guy.

Hell's Bells · Post by **Hell's Bells** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:19 pm

elkmcc wrote:When Dennehey left for USU I was sure that Kramer would get offered and accept the Griz job if he wasn't offered the Cat job first. I was surprised that Kramer didn't know about Mick leaving for USU before it became public knowledge. Mick and Kramer were close friends and I would have thought Mick would have tipped him off about the opening. I might be all washed up but my feeling is Kramer would have jumped at the opportunity to coach the Griz.

It would be really interesting to know how successful Kramer would have been if he had taken the Griz job. Would he still be coaching the Griz or would he, like Glenn, have moved on to perhaps say WSU or Wyoming for that matter.

Anyway my point is Glenn (the politician) and Hauck (the recruiter) have really done nothing much more than keep the caddi on the road. Kramer has brought the Cats up by the bootstraps and transformed the Cats into a real contender. If Glenn and Hauck had accomplished in relative terms as much as Kramer has with the Cats the Griz would have more than 1 more NC trophy in the case. Just some thought for consideration before all of you throw the baby out with the bath water.

As you might guess I like Kramer and I have for many years. I also like BH and there are things about both of these gentlemen that sort of rub me the wrong way. But isn't that true of just about everyone? Well, everyone except Don Read perhaps. When you think about it if it hadn't been for Don Read both of the Montana programs could still be mired in mediocrity. Don built the Griz program that forced the Cats to raise their standards in order to compete. Don is truely a genius, a politician and a class guy.

Robcat · Post by **Robcat** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:23 pm

Elk-words of wisdom allways come from the cooler heads. Very good post.

GrizinWashington · Post by **GrizinWashington** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:41 pm

elkmcc wrote:When Dennehey left for USU I was sure that Kramer would get offered and accept the Griz job if he wasn't offered the Cat job first. I was surprised that Kramer didn't know about Mick leaving for USU before it became public knowledge. Mick and Kramer were close friends and I would have thought Mick would have tipped him off about the opening. I might be all washed up but my feeling is Kramer would have jumped at the opportunity to coach the Griz.

It would be really interesting to know how successful Kramer would have been if he had taken the Griz job. Would he still be coaching the Griz or would he, like Glenn, have moved on to perhaps say WSU or Wyoming for that matter.

Anyway my point is Glenn (the politician) and Hauck (the recruiter) have really done nothing much more than keep the caddi on the road. Kramer has brought the Cats up by the bootstraps and transformed the Cats into a real contender. If Glenn and Hauck had accomplished in relative terms as much as Kramer has with the Cats the Griz would have more than 1 more NC trophy in the case. Just some thought for consideration before all of you throw the baby out with the bath water.

As you might guess I like Kramer and I have for many years. I also like BH and there are things about both of these gentlemen that sort of rub me the wrong way. But isn't that true of just about everyone? Well, everyone except Don Read perhaps. When you think about it if it hadn't been for Don Read both of the Montana programs could still be mired in mediocrity. Don built the Griz program that forced the Cats to raise their standards in order to compete. Don is truely a genius, a politician and a class guy.

Wait! I agree with the sentiment of this post because I like Krames, but to claim that all Glenn and Hauck have done is keep the Cadi on the road is ridiculous. It is REMARKABLY hard to win year after year, and to do it at the level the Griz have over 15 years is nothing short of staggering. If you think its easy to just roll out a winner and have them win again, explain to me why of last year's semi-finalists (JMU, SHSU, W&M, UM) only Montana will make the playoffs.

DaGriz · Post by **DaGriz** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:34 pm

I think Kramer has done wonders with the Cats. Took them from a joke of a team to a contender in a very difficult conference. I do have to say though, if Hauck still had Ochs and was not going to make the playoffs this year, Lulay had graduated and Kramer had the Cats in first place with a frosh QB, would there even be a debate on who the better coach is? I just think if the roles were reversed Kramer would be considered a god and Hauck the worst coach ever.

bobcatgrad2005 · Post by **bobcatgrad2005** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:13 pm

Kramer IS a god in my house. I swear the man could sell an eskimo a cooler...

While Kramer was being offered the job @ MSU, UM was calling his hotel room upstairs, as was U of Idaho, and Chris Tormey offering him an assistant position at U. NEv. Reno. (M cousin was a UM athletics intern at the time). But Krames had already committed to the 'Cats, where he was a better fit anyway (farm boy). Fate, eh? Now consider if Kramer had taken the UM position, and Glenn the MSU position...

anacondagriz · Post by **anacondagriz** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:17 pm

bobcatgrad2005 wrote:Kramer IS a god in my house. I swear the man could sell an eskimo a cooler...

Now consider if Kramer had taken the UM position, and Glenn the MSU position...

Ugh, that thought gives me nightmares. Thank you for not picking up the phone Mike Kramer. Nothing against Mr. Clean but I am very happy w/ended up w/Joe Glenn, even though he left after 3 years.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:24 pm

While I enjoyed your post, elk, I will say that I don't think winning 3 National Championships at 3 different levels in 3 different decades (as well as 8 Big Sky Championships) prior to Read landing in Missoula qualifies as "mired in mediocrity".

elkmcc · Post by **elkmcc** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:21 pm

GrizinWashington wrote: Wait! I agree with the sentiment of this post because I like Krames, but to claim that all Glenn and Hauck have done is keep the Cadi on the road is ridiculous. It is REMARKABLY hard to win year after year, and to do it at the level the Griz have over 15 years is nothing short of staggering. If you think its easy to just roll out a winner and have them win again, explain to me why of last year's semi-finalists (JMU, SHSU, W&M, UM) only Montana will make the playoffs.

Glenn was the one that made the "caddilac" statement. I was just paraphrasing him. BH has yet to win one so its pretty hard to say he has taken the Griz to new levels. You are absolutely right about the difficulty of maintaining the winning % over the years. Coaches come and coaches go. However, the thing that has remained present over all those years is the program itself and to a large extent the people behind the program. I don't know if that explains why the Griz are the only one of last years final four to make the playoffs, but the Griz have made the playoffs for 13 years straight. Maybe those other programs were not expected to make the playoffs. The Griz were expected to make it and like the last 12 years before it, they did. Sounds like nonsense but it works.

El: Read came to Montana in '86. Two years after MSU won its last NC. I was not refering to any time prior to '86. Are you arguing that the years '86-'00 were not mediocre for the Cats? I can almost assure you that without the coming of Don Read to Montana, the Griz would still be indistinguishable from the other 110 odd I-AA teams out there. A wise man once told me: "Learn to accept a compliment when one is given. Failure to do so will prevent you from recognizing one when it is given and using it to your benefit later".

FootballFan · Post by **FootballFan** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:49 pm

Kramer has taken the Cats up from bootstraps! At least five losses every year (of course could break his streak on Sat.) is taking a program up from the bootstraps. My how the expectation is so low.

FootballFan · Post by **FootballFan** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:52 pm

If losing at least five games in every season he has coached at MSU is taking a program up by the bootstraps your expectation level isn't very high! McBride at Weber has matched Kramers best record in his first year and he has less to work with.

BWahlberg · Post by **BWahlberg** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:43 pm

So cat fans, you'd rather have a coach that on average takes a team 6-5 or 7-4 than a coach that takes a team 9-2 or 8-3? Wow...

Kramer or Hauck?

Who would you rather have as head coach?

Kramer or Hauck?