Mediocrity!!

Slackjaw · Post by **Slackjaw** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:29 pm

I am ashamed of the fact that a quarterback with Travis Lulay's abilities and heart is not going to the playoffs for his senior season. I have been a big fan of coach Kramer and thank him for taking us this far, but in order for this program to take the next step they need to move on. He hasn't shown the ability to place a disciplined team on the field week in week out. Lets move on and go find a coach that will win games on the road.

There's a good coach in Helena that seems to know how to take his team all the way, lets try to get him over here. I don't like starting this thread a week before the griz game, but I really need to vent. Who does everybody else want as the football coach of msu? Opinions wanted, realistic ones please.

bozbobcat · Post by **bozbobcat** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:43 pm

Let's wait until next week before calling for heads. But it gets harder each year that we underachieve. Eastern was a very good team, however. I can't take that away from them, but the Bobcats have to play a lot better next week or I imagine this debate will really grow.

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:44 pm

Kramer is too focused on being (acting like) a football coach than he is on coaching football. He needs to get over that if he's ever going to get off this middle of the pack he's been on his whole career. He's had one great team ('97 EWU). He's very similar to Mick Durham. Once every 10 years or so he comes up with something.

I agree that it's a shame that Lulay's career is over after UM. This loss by 21 points wipes what slim chance MSU had of making the playoffs at 7-4. Lulay takes MSU to the playoffs as frosh/soph, but has nothing to show for the last two years....hard to believe.

Yes, Van Diest is good and a proven winner. But MSU will never can Kramer, because they just don't operate that way. Never have. You have to really mess up to be sent packing.

Next year's team has a lot of promise, but that really rings hollow after three straight years of hearing it.

gtapp · Post by **gtapp** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:44 pm

Kramer needs to win next week! It is Cat/griz at home against what is probably the worst griz team in a decade. If he can't motivate the team to a win then yes, it is time for him to go. It will take care of itself next year either way. With the talent we lose the Cats could struggle next year to win more than 3 or 4 games. At that point a change will probably be made. Kramer has done an incredible job of selling the program to boosters and thus filling the stands. For that he should be congatulated. This was his self admitted dream team. He had all of the pieces in place and yet we are disapointed again. If we can beat the griz then I would conclude that it has been a good year. Can Kramer take us to the next level? Twelve years of coaching history in the BSC would indicate NO!

Shakermaker · Post by **Shakermaker** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:51 pm

bozbobcat wrote:Let's wait until next week before calling for heads. But it gets harder each year that we underachieve. Eastern was a very good team, however. I can't take that away from them, but the Bobcats have to play a lot better next week or I imagine this debate will really grow.

Agreed. You have a good chance to beat my beloved Griz. Our D outshines your team's day in and day out, but our O sucks sooooooooooo bad it's starting to make cameo appearances in porno.

williamfred · Post by **williamfred** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:15 pm

bozbobcat wrote:Let's wait until next week before calling for heads. But it gets harder each year that we underachieve. Eastern was a very good team, however. I can't take that away from them, but the Bobcats have to play a lot better next week or I imagine this debate will really grow.

I am not calling for Kramer's head. But he does need a better coaching staff. Our kids deserve better. Yes, he has done a great deal for MSU but spin time is now over. There are many fans who have never been convinced of Kramer. I stood by him even after his first two years and will continue to do so but he does need new asst coaches and probably a new offensive coord. One more year of poor coaching and I will be back in these forums asking for a new head coach.

go_catz! · Post by **go_catz!** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:00 pm

who cares if we win next week...still no playoffs. Get over the Cat/Griz game, I'd rather lose it every year and still play in the playoffs.

Posted this in another thread:

I've long been a reader of this board, but now, I can't hold my tongue any longer. What a pathetic performance today in Cheney. We need some change, instead of this bullsh!t every year getting the Cats' fans hopes up and then failing (miserably) in the big game.

As a season ticket holder, I am extremely disappointed. Could someone please tell me the Cats' road record the last few years? And what hasn't changed the last few years? Players...yes, coaches...NO! Look at the talent we have, look at the record, hold on while I vomit. If anyone thinks the players are to blame, think again. Who's in charge of this team full of talent? You'd think someone with that big of a head could figure it out a little better than that.

I'm tired of the sh!t we read and hear every year about how good our Cats are going to be and then see this. Not once in our "comeback" years have we been convincing...no outright BSC titles, no playoff wins. Lets get some staff in here who can lead us to a winning program instead of some idiot with stupid one-liners that make us laugh. Its not going to get any better either. Lulay is the best bobcat we've ever seen, but obviously he wasn't enough.

In Kramer's defense, he has made some improvements...tough to improve from an 0-11 season though...

catsrback76 · Post by **catsrback76** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:21 pm

I too think that this game rests on the coaching staff. A timeout BEFORE the first play from scrimmage! Rookie mistake.

Travis had a horrible game but didn't need to. Playing calling was off the charts BAD.
Groves ran for over 50 in the first quarter and we never saw him again. WHY?

If we run a more conventional offense featuring a back who obviously producing yards that would open up some of the passing lanes for Travis to try and get the ball down field.

We paniced when we went down by one TD and started calling pure pass plays. Travis made bad reads and the coaches never settled him down.

Sure he is a senior and should know better, BUT, coaches needed to call something other than TRAVIS LULAY left and TRAVIS LULAY right. IT was painful to watch because the solution was clear. The recievers were not catching the ball. Travis forced every pass. Threw off his back foot and telegraphed everything. He needed to pitch it to Groves and let him produce with a completely different passing scheme. That rests with the coaches too.

The first quarter they called the right schemes, but once behind they failed to call for the adjustments that were clearly needed to succeed.
The motivation of the team rests on coaching. The adjustments to succeed were made in all the wrong ways and we lost. I feel bad for Lulay who played a miserable playoff/conference championship dependent game and got no help from the coaches.

Whats sad is that Eastern was very beatable. They are not that impressive. Sorry kids, we should have taken that one away from them.

Kramer is on the bubble. He had better make dramatic coaching changes from Offensive CO first. It appears that Kramer fell in love with Lulay for all the right reasons, but he lost his perspective to coach him correctly. Too bad, they both could have had a great senior year is the coaching staff had produced.

Next week is like kissing your sister. Beat the Griz just to redeem the year and get the right people in the right place for next year. It is going to be a long post season.

KillintheGriz · Post by **KillintheGriz** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:32 pm

To me the obvious was yet again obvious. Last year--at home playing EWU-- in OT on 1st and goal we run two pitch plays for losses then failed attempts to get in the end zone to come within an extra point from double OT. That was the game Lulay accounted for over 520 yards of total offense. Two runs (probably only one) by Lulay up the gut would have tied the score and given us another chance in 2-OT. Fast forward to today in Cheney. Excuse me while I go vomit......Evin Groves ran over EWU in the first quarter. That was the last time he touched the ball. Several consecutive three and outs via dropped passes and failed pass attempts killed the Cat's offense. We had control of the game--even when we were down 7 points. The coaching staff didn't see this. We had the D-line on their heels. Lulay had so much time in the pocket today the trainers had to shave the roots growing on his shoes every quarter. The O-line had awesome surges for Groves to run behind. Late in the 3rd quarter, the MSU offense could have done anything it wished if it kept running the ball up to that point. Bailey wanted quick scores via passing to get even or up a score. No Evin Groves. The coaching staff is solely to blame for this loss. If it wasn't for Travis Lulay, the Cats would have stunk this year. He accounted for most of the offsense this year--a lot of it on sheer desire to win--the "it" you can't quantify. I truly believe we are a play-off contender in two years with the young talent we have and up and coming defense monster. However, it will only happen if heads are rattled in the coaching staff. Bailey needs to go. I could do better calling the game.

Our chance at post season play is history. However, pride has to reign. The Cats need to step up for pride's sake and show the Griz no one wins in "our" house. I will not be happy unless we absolutely annihilate the Griz next week. No 2nd strings subs if we get up. A complete and utter ass kicking.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:35 pm

I'm not in the "run Kramer out of town camp"-absolutetly not! Just to make that clear.

But it is also clear that EWU managed to upgrade their head coaching position when the retained Wulff. With the injuries and bad luck that team has had it's a miracle they're where they're at this season.

Kramer is a good coach, but he's not the league's top coach-just like Mick Durham isn't the league's top coach in basketball. What can we do? Run them off and risk bringing in another Solomonson, or Dave Arnold? Before Kramer we had Hysell-he wasn't the league's top coach by a long stretch either. If we run off Kramer would it be like running off Lubick?Destroy our recruiting base and putting program in a 30 year dumper (with the exception of '84 with a team full of Lubick recruits).

I don't know what to think about the whole deal. It looked obvious to me that this team wasn't ready to play tonight. The offense is completely out of ideas and the defense is only as good as their conditioning can carry them-once they're tired they can't stop anybody (NAU game 2 weeks ago is a pretty good example).

Are these guys thinking? It's 4th and 19 and we're way behind so Lulay decides to tuck and run??? What's the point of that? Take the risk-throw the dang ball! EWU has 4th and forever-their quarterback throws it up and Grenfell intercepts at the 10 instead of knocking it down!!! DUMB, DUMB, DUMB! Sure the game was way over by that point but that play tells me he's playing for the stats and not for the team-and Lulay doesn't want to risk the interception so he puts himself in danger on a hopeless run. How about coach deciding to kick a 44 yard field goal at the end of the half into the wind on 4th down instead of going for with one time out still remaining? He should know by now that Hastings has a weak leg and a field goal from that distance has no chance. What was he thinking?

This team and their coaching staff had their collective heads up their rear ends!

I'll probably come around later in the week-but right now I could care less about the stupid Cat-griz game. I'm guessing our players feel the same way-judging by the effort they gave tonight. The griz will beat us by 20.

go_catz! · Post by **go_catz!** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:55 pm

I agree, Obviously we weren't ready to play today. How in the **** can't you get up to play the biggest game of the year?!?! Everyone knew this game is bigger than next week's game as far as playoffs go.

It's appalling.

RIP Cats, next year...whew. You'll be lucky to win as many games you would've this year without Lulay (2).

Thanks Travis, we love watching you play. And I hope to hell the coaching staff thanks you for giving them a job the last 3 years.

SteelheadBum · Post by **SteelheadBum** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:18 pm

The coaches will get their arses handed (chewed not fired; that's next year) to them this week by the QB Club and Alumni. Deservingly so.

However, the CATS are a veteran ball team this year. They shouldn't need a whole lot of rah, rah, speeches to get them going. They are the biggest bunch of underachievers in the history of football. Travis played like crap today. He looked more like a chump than a Champ. The Receivers absolutely sucked!! How many dropped passes today?? Our special teams are terrible on their best day. The defense, well, we know they couldn't stop a Class C powder puff team, but at least try to improve your arm tackles BEFORE CAT/Griz on Saturday. Just an overall shameful, embarrassing, disgusting, piss poor performance as a football program.

For the record, the O-line, and Groves played well today but to no avail. The secondary played OK sometimes.

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:48 pm

I'm not in the "run Kramer out of town camp"-absolutetly not! Just to make that clear.

But it is also clear that EWU managed to upgrade their head coaching position when the retained Wulff. With the injuries and bad luck that team has had it's a miracle they're where they're at this season.

Kramer is a good coach, but he's not the league's top coach-just like Mick Durham isn't the league's top coach in basketball. What can we do? Run them off and risk bringing in another Solomonson, or Dave Arnold? Before Kramer we had Hysell-he wasn't the league's top coach by a long stretch either. If we run off Kramer would it be like running off Lubick?Destroy our recruiting base and putting program in a 30 year dumper (with the exception of '84 with a team full of Lubick recruits).

I don't know what to think about the whole deal. It looked obvious to me that this team wasn't ready to play tonight. The offense is completely out of ideas and the defense is only as good as their conditioning can carry them-once they're tired they can't stop anybody (NAU game 2 weeks ago is a pretty good example).

Are these guys thinking? It's 4th and 19 and we're way behind so Lulay decides to tuck and run??? What's the point of that? Take the risk-throw the dang ball! EWU has 4th and forever-their quarterback throws it up and Grenfell intercepts at the 10 instead of knocking it down!!! DUMB, DUMB, DUMB! Sure the game was way over by that point but that play tells me he's playing for the stats and not for the team-and Lulay doesn't want to risk the interception so he puts himself in danger on a hopeless run. How about coach deciding to kick a 44 yard field goal at the end of the half into the wind on 4th down instead of going for with one time out still remaining? He should know by now that Hastings has a weak leg and a field goal from that distance has no chance. What was he thinking?

I'm with you on most of this BB. However, I have cooled off, and I am looking forward to Cat/Griz.

I like Kramer and overall I think we are lucky to have him. However, I have never been impressed with his overall game strategies and his special teams calls/coaching. Also, sometimes I have my doubts about the offensive play calling, but at times have been reasonably impressed (when we win!!). I'm not really into calling for peoples' heads, but thinking at the very least we should get a special teams coach. Or better yet a special teams/assistant offensive coordinator. It seems to me once Kramer/Bailey get something in their heads on what they want to accomplish in a game, they do not make the adjustments when the defense is showing weaknesses in certain areas. I think we need to take what is given (by the defense), more than try to dictate what we want to do (unless we have dominating talent). It does seem like we are in a rut, some outside creativity sure wouldn't hurt. Another set of eyes to see how defenses are reacting and help in play calling/adjustments. Maybe this would help in cutting down getting in plays late/delay of game penalties (I would guess we lead the league in this).

Having heard Kramer speak in person several times, he seems to be a great motivator in general. It really leaves me scratching my head when I see his teams come out flat (like the offense did today). After most times I hear him speak, I am ready to strap on a helmet myself and give it a go.

liqud360 · Post by **liqud360** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:21 am

Is it really over? I thought I heard Kramer talking at the end of the game tonight about trying to win against the griz to get another ring and banner. So, is it really over, does he know something that I donot, can we still go the playoffs? What is Kramer talking about!

Bozgriz · Post by **Bozgriz** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:35 am

liqud360 wrote:Is it really over? I thought I heard Kramer talking at the end of the game tonight about trying to win against the griz to get another ring and banner. So, is it really over, does he know something that I donot, can we still go the playoffs? What is Kramer talking about!

Yes, it is really over. The best the cats can do is a 3 way tie for the title with EWU winning the tiebreakers for the automatic bid (the Griz would be getting an at-large bid at 8-3). The cats getting a bid now would be a miracle...

VictorG · Post by **VictorG** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:51 am

gtapp wrote:Kramer needs to win next week! It is Cat/griz at home against what is probably the worst griz team in a decade. If he can't motivate the team to a win then yes, it is time for him to go. It will take care of itself next year either way. With the talent we lose the Cats could struggle next year to win more than 3 or 4 games. At that point a change will probably be made. Kramer has done an incredible job of selling the program to boosters and thus filling the stands. For that he should be congatulated. This was his self admitted dream team. He had all of the pieces in place and yet we are disapointed again. If we can beat the griz then I would conclude that it has been a good year. Can Kramer take us to the next level? Twelve years of coaching history in the BSC would indicate NO!

I have to agree with you about the Griz. Right now this is the best defensive team the Griz have had in some time. But, as the last 2 games have showed, the offense is lacking! All in all, I feel more uncertain about this game than ANY in the last 10 years and I an 8 -2 in that time frame.................still.....................Griz win................!!

And let me be the 1st Griz fan to say....just wait until you see our team next year! It will be MUCH better!!!

go_catz! · Post by **go_catz!** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:10 am

Yeah, huge head!! You have it figured out. Keep trying to pull the shades over Bozeman's eyes. You have been less than mediocre. Get out of here, take your huge head and your slick comments with you. We want a winning program here, and its obvious you can't deliver.

I'm a big Cats fan, but for our sake, I hope we lose by 50 next week. Otherwise, everyone will talk about how great of a coach you are for turning it around. Belgrade High would have beat us by 2 touchdowns this week and that's unacceptable.

Again, Kramer, you owe Travis a lot of money. Can you even imagine how pathetic your career would've been if you didn't have him? How many games did he win for you? You didn't win sh!t. Lulay made you look good because he's a competitor.. If Lulay would've been a Griz, 2 national championships for him. You're not fooling me anymore, and I won't support you until you show us you can take us into the playoffs.

...And we're not stupid enough to believe we still have a shot this year. You had a week to get the team ready to play this week and you failed miserably. No chance this year, and losing Lulay, no chance next year. You're stupid little smile is losing its credit...fast

liqud360 · Post by **liqud360** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:21 am

I've got that feeling in my stomach...like when that girl you first really fall in love with turns around months later and tells you she doesnt love you any more. Man, that hurts. I think alot of us feel that kick in our stomach now...sucks. But, I just got done reading a commentary by Andrew Hinkelman from the Bozeman Chronicle...I think he kind of nailed it for me. This game is over... its done...now, lets stand up, and cheer on this Bobcat team and enjoy Lulay and Co. sticking it one last time to the Griz!

And check out that article by Hinkelman, its pretty good.

Shakermaker · Post by **Shakermaker** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:36 am

liqud360 wrote:I've got that feeling in my stomach...like when that girl you first really fall in love with turns around months later and tells you she doesnt love you any more. Man, that hurts. I think alot of us feel that kick in our stomach now...sucks. But, I just got done reading a commentary by Andrew Hinkelman from the Bozeman Chronicle...I think he kind of nailed it for me. This game is over... its done...now, lets stand up, and cheer on this Bobcat team and enjoy Lulay and Co. sticking it one last time to the Griz!

And check out that article by Hinkelman, its pretty good.

Jesus Christ, I think you have it right my friend. Now I hope you lose as a Griz fan, but as a former Satanic worshiper, I think if the cock and the ass, along with the moon, are all aligned, then I think the Cats will win. If less sheep sodimizing, cattle prod'n, and Kramer head shaving goes on.... well then, the Griz win. Go Griz!!! Yeah, I'm drunk.

ChiOCat · Post by **ChiOCat** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:08 am

When will it be the Year of the Cat?? I'm so sick of going into a game with a sick feeling, knowing that if we win it's more luck than anything, just we happened to have more points than we've allowed the other team when time runs out.

Mediocrity!!

Mediocrity!!

la da da

keep believing Kramer!!