Idaho State

Mr Lisle · Post by **Mr Lisle** » Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:55 pm

Bengal fans must be holding their breath. Saragin.....I know, but Saragin has ISU rated ahead of (among others) South Dakota, SMU, Tulsa, New Mexico, Southern Mississippi, Army, Tulane, UTEP, Florida Atlantic, CENTRAL ARKANSAS. Thirteen up the line are the Bobcats. According to Saragin ...I know....the CATS playing ISU in Bozeman are currently 8.29 favorites. If you're an ISU fan you gotta be believing any good news. I can't comment on a Simon Frazier blow out, but some of what they've done is very legit.

John K · Post by **John K** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:43 am

Mr Lisle wrote:Bengal fans must be holding their breath. Saragin.....I know, but Saragin has ISU rated ahead of (among others) South Dakota, SMU, Tulsa, New Mexico, Southern Mississippi, Army, Tulane, UTEP, Florida Atlantic, CENTRAL ARKANSAS. Thirteen up the line are the Bobcats. According to Saragin ...I know....the CATS playing ISU in Bozeman are currently 8.29 favorites. If you're an ISU fan you gotta be believing any good news. I can't comment on a Simon Frazier blow out, but some of what they've done is very legit.

Sagarin has them as the 4th best team in the BSC, and that just might be accurate. It took him a little longer than it did at EWU and MSU, but it appears that Kramer has the ISU program headed in the right direction. In another year or two, I expect them to be a legitimate BSC title/playoff contender, if they're not already.

Mr Lisle · Post by **Mr Lisle** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:36 pm

I honestly don't think he had much to do with Eastern. His predecessor, Dick Zornes, had done a fine job of leading them out of DII and immediately into the BSC. His DII teams ('79-'83) went 33-16. They entered the BSC in 1984 and right away beat the eventual 1AA National Champion Bobcats, going 7-2-1. His first four years in the Big Sky he went 26-17-1. Compare that with other recent DII's who have moved up to the BSC, like Northern Colorado and Davis. It's not easy. His next four years were rocky, but he finished out with 7-4 and 7-3 seasons. In his 10 years in the Big Sky he went 56-50-2 (52.8%) . Coach Kramer started in 1994 and went 4-7, 3-8, 6-5. In 1997 he had a Dave Arnold experience and went 12-2. His losses were to Youngstown State in the playoffs and to Cliff Hysell and the Bobcats. He finished his last two season with an unremarkable 5-6 and 7-4. Overall he went 37-32 (53.6%).
I anticipate there will be a bunch of this type of stuff written as the ISU game gets closer, even though it's been previously beaten to death on BN.
This is not to demean Coach Kramer in any way. There's much I admire about him. Just want to make sure coach Zornes, a good man and fine coach, doesn't get lost in the hype.

John K · Post by **John K** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:42 pm

Mr Lisle wrote:I honestly don't think he had much to do with Eastern. His predecessor, Dick Zornes, had done a fine job of leading them out of DII and immediately into the BSC. His DII teams ('79-'83) went 33-16. They entered the BSC in 1984 and right away beat the eventual 1AA National Champion Bobcats, going 7-2-1. His first four years in the Big Sky he went 26-17-1. Compare that with other recent DII's who have moved up to the BSC, like Northern Colorado and Davis. It's not easy. His next four years were rocky, but he finished out with 7-4 and 7-3 seasons. In his 10 years in the Big Sky he went 56-50-2 (52.8%) . Coach Kramer started in 1994 and went 4-7, 3-8, 6-5. In 1997 he had a Dave Arnold experience and went 12-2. His losses were to Youngstown State in the playoffs and to Cliff Hysell and the Bobcats. He finished his last two season with an unremarkable 5-6 and 7-4. Overall he went 37-32 (53.6%).
I anticipate there will be a bunch of this type of stuff written as the ISU game gets closer, even though it's been previously beaten to death on BN.
This is not to demean Coach Kramer in any way. There's much I admire about him. Just want to make sure coach Zornes, a good man and fine coach, doesn't get lost in the hype.

You make a good point about Zornes, who obviously had a very successful tenure in Cheney. EWU didn't join the BSC until the 1987 season though. When they beat MSU in 1984, it was a non-conference game.

Mr Lisle · Post by **Mr Lisle** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:03 pm

John K wrote:
Mr Lisle wrote:I honestly don't think he had much to do with Eastern. His predecessor, Dick Zornes, had done a fine job of leading them out of DII and immediately into the BSC. His DII teams ('79-'83) went 33-16. They entered the BSC in 1984 and right away beat the eventual 1AA National Champion Bobcats, going 7-2-1. His first four years in the Big Sky he went 26-17-1. Compare that with other recent DII's who have moved up to the BSC, like Northern Colorado and Davis. It's not easy. His next four years were rocky, but he finished out with 7-4 and 7-3 seasons. In his 10 years in the Big Sky he went 56-50-2 (52.8%) . Coach Kramer started in 1994 and went 4-7, 3-8, 6-5. In 1997 he had a Dave Arnold experience and went 12-2. His losses were to Youngstown State in the playoffs and to Cliff Hysell and the Bobcats. He finished his last two season with an unremarkable 5-6 and 7-4. Overall he went 37-32 (53.6%).
I anticipate there will be a bunch of this type of stuff written as the ISU game gets closer, even though it's been previously beaten to death on BN.
This is not to demean Coach Kramer in any way. There's much I admire about him. Just want to make sure coach Zornes, a good man and fine coach, doesn't get lost in the hype.
You make a good point about Zornes, who obviously had a very successful tenure in Cheney. EWU didn't join the BSC until the 1987 season though. When they beat MSU in 1984, it was a non-conference game.

Your are correct, sir. Thank you.

SkyRider · Post by **SkyRider** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:35 pm

ISU signed Kramer to a 3 year extension today.

http://www.isubengals.com/news/2014/10/ ... 41842.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ilovethecats · Post by **ilovethecats** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:14 pm

well deserved.

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:18 pm

I'm so happy for him. He gave a great part of his life to MSU and well deserves this extension. Congratulations to Coach.

77matcat · Post by **77matcat** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:31 am

[THUMBS UP SIGN][THUMBS UP SIGN]

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catbooster · Post by **catbooster** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:56 pm

Good move by ISU to give him the extension.

Montanabob · Post by **Montanabob** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:06 pm

I heard a rumor that the Sun Belt offered Idaho State a spot so they could fill the void of U of I Vandals dropping to DII for football only.

Cheshire-CAT · Post by **Cheshire-CAT** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:22 am

Cat Grad wrote:I'm so happy for him. He gave a great part of his life to MSU and well deserves this extension. Congratulations to Coach.

Couldn't disagree more, after the trainwreck he left at MSU and his unrepentant attitude about it. He still brings it up in interviews at ISU, how he was mistreated at MSU and had to fight his way back. Just this week he talked about the "liars, cheaters and thieves" he inherited when he took over at ISU (and he sued MSU for slander?) and my instant thought was that at least they weren't drug dealers, kidnappers and murderers. He was suspended for shoving a player at ISU last year, then promptly closed practices and suspended the player - ISU happily plays along because he's such a charismatic coach. I have enjoyed the hell out of watching his losing record at ISU.

ilovethecats · Post by **ilovethecats** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:13 am

John K · Post by **John K** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:47 am

Cheshire-CAT wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:I'm so happy for him. He gave a great part of his life to MSU and well deserves this extension. Congratulations to Coach.

Couldn't disagree more, after the trainwreck he left at MSU and his unrepentant attitude about it. He still brings it up in interviews at ISU, how he was mistreated at MSU and had to fight his way back. Just this week he talked about the "liars, cheaters and thieves" he inherited when he took over at ISU (and he sued MSU for slander?) and my instant thought was that at least they weren't drug dealers, kidnappers and murderers. He was suspended for shoving a player at ISU last year, then promptly closed practices and suspended the player - ISU happily plays along because he's such a charismatic coach. I have enjoyed the hell out of watching his losing record at ISU.

I can't believe we're still arguing about this after all these years, but I will always defend Coach Kramer. He may have made some mistakes, but he left the program in infinitely better shape than it was when he came here. What we have today, would not have been possible without Kramer's contributions. Coach Ash has done a great job, but I don't believe he could have resurrected a program that had been down so low, for so long, if he had been hired back in 1999, rather than Kramer. That took someone with Kramer's charisma and enthusiasm, warts and all. I don't know how old you are...maybe you're not old enough to remember what MSU football was like from 1985-2000, but I remember, and it wasn't very fun being a Bobcat fan back in those days. All Bobcat fans should be able to appreciate his contributions, while also acknowledging his faults. I don't want to contribute to this becoming yet another never ending debate about the Kramer era, so this will be my one and only post on the subject, but I just couldn't let your comments go by without a rebuttal.

allcat · Post by **allcat** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:02 am

John K wrote:
Cheshire-CAT wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:I'm so happy for him. He gave a great part of his life to MSU and well deserves this extension. Congratulations to Coach.

Couldn't disagree more, after the trainwreck he left at MSU and his unrepentant attitude about it. He still brings it up in interviews at ISU, how he was mistreated at MSU and had to fight his way back. Just this week he talked about the "liars, cheaters and thieves" he inherited when he took over at ISU (and he sued MSU for slander?) and my instant thought was that at least they weren't drug dealers, kidnappers and murderers. He was suspended for shoving a player at ISU last year, then promptly closed practices and suspended the player - ISU happily plays along because he's such a charismatic coach. I have enjoyed the hell out of watching his losing record at ISU.
I can't believe we're still arguing about this after all these years, but I will always defend Coach Kramer. He may have made some mistakes, but he left the program in infinitely better shape than it was when he came here. What we have today, would not have been possible without Kramer's contributions. Coach Ash has done a great job, but I don't believe he could have resurrected a program that had been down so low, for so long, if he had been hired back in 1999, rather than Kramer. That took someone with Kramer's charisma and enthusiasm, warts and all. I don't know how old you are...maybe you're not old enough to remember what MSU football was like from 1985-2000, but I remember, and it wasn't very fun being a Bobcat fan back in those days. All Bobcat fans should be able to appreciate his contributions, while also acknowledging his faults. I don't want to contribute to this becoming yet another never ending debate about the Kramer era, so this will be my one and only post on the subject, but I just couldn't let your comments go by without a rebuttal.

Cliff Hysell brought me back to the games, he may not have beaten the gritz and he could not talk to a crowd without liquid lubrication but he did make us respectable. I love what Kramer did, but most people want to leave out what Hysell did.

Cheshire-CAT · Post by **Cheshire-CAT** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:22 am

John K wrote:
Cheshire-CAT wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:I'm so happy for him. He gave a great part of his life to MSU and well deserves this extension. Congratulations to Coach.

Couldn't disagree more, after the trainwreck he left at MSU and his unrepentant attitude about it. He still brings it up in interviews at ISU, how he was mistreated at MSU and had to fight his way back. Just this week he talked about the "liars, cheaters and thieves" he inherited when he took over at ISU (and he sued MSU for slander?) and my instant thought was that at least they weren't drug dealers, kidnappers and murderers. He was suspended for shoving a player at ISU last year, then promptly closed practices and suspended the player - ISU happily plays along because he's such a charismatic coach. I have enjoyed the hell out of watching his losing record at ISU.
I can't believe we're still arguing about this after all these years, but I will always defend Coach Kramer. He may have made some mistakes, but he left the program in infinitely better shape than it was when he came here. What we have today, would not have been possible without Kramer's contributions. Coach Ash has done a great job, but I don't believe he could have resurrected a program that had been down so low, for so long, if he had been hired back in 1999, rather than Kramer. That took someone with Kramer's charisma and enthusiasm, warts and all. I don't know how old you are...maybe you're not old enough to remember what MSU football was like from 1985-2000, but I remember, and it wasn't very fun being a Bobcat fan back in those days. All Bobcat fans should be able to appreciate his contributions, while also acknowledging his faults. I don't want to contribute to this becoming yet another never ending debate about the Kramer era, so this will be my one and only post on the subject, but I just couldn't let your comments go by without a rebuttal.

Third generation MSU grad, Cat fan as long as I can remember and attended MSU during those years when we couldn't buy a win. While I can appreciate the rebuilding Kramer accomplished, I hate that he did so with disreputable players and coaches and, to this day, takes zero responsibility for his part in the mess. Given what Ash has accomplished while maintaining high academic and personal standards for players and coaches, I do believe he could have rebuilt and done it the right way. As much fun as a winning record is, I would trade the Kramer wins in a heartbeat to erase the rotten things that happened during those years. Living close to Pocatello, ID now, and attending ISU games, seeing the way Kramer comports himself here only solidifies my assessment of his character.

John K · Post by **John K** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:22 am

allcat wrote:
John K wrote:
Cheshire-CAT wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:I'm so happy for him. He gave a great part of his life to MSU and well deserves this extension. Congratulations to Coach.

Couldn't disagree more, after the trainwreck he left at MSU and his unrepentant attitude about it. He still brings it up in interviews at ISU, how he was mistreated at MSU and had to fight his way back. Just this week he talked about the "liars, cheaters and thieves" he inherited when he took over at ISU (and he sued MSU for slander?) and my instant thought was that at least they weren't drug dealers, kidnappers and murderers. He was suspended for shoving a player at ISU last year, then promptly closed practices and suspended the player - ISU happily plays along because he's such a charismatic coach. I have enjoyed the hell out of watching his losing record at ISU.
I can't believe we're still arguing about this after all these years, but I will always defend Coach Kramer. He may have made some mistakes, but he left the program in infinitely better shape than it was when he came here. What we have today, would not have been possible without Kramer's contributions. Coach Ash has done a great job, but I don't believe he could have resurrected a program that had been down so low, for so long, if he had been hired back in 1999, rather than Kramer. That took someone with Kramer's charisma and enthusiasm, warts and all. I don't know how old you are...maybe you're not old enough to remember what MSU football was like from 1985-2000, but I remember, and it wasn't very fun being a Bobcat fan back in those days. All Bobcat fans should be able to appreciate his contributions, while also acknowledging his faults. I don't want to contribute to this becoming yet another never ending debate about the Kramer era, so this will be my one and only post on the subject, but I just couldn't let your comments go by without a rebuttal.
Cliff Hysell brought me back to the games, he may not have beaten the gritz and he could not talk to a crowd without liquid lubrication but he did make us respectable. I love what Kramer did, but most people want to leave out what Hysell did.

OK...I lied about not posting anymore on this topic, but only because I wanted to agree with you about Hysell. I'm not sure that attendance, or even just the general enthusiasm among Bobcat fans, improved much during his tenure, but certainly the on-field product was significantly better, versus the Solomonson era. You're absolutely right...many people, including myself, tend to overlook his contribution to the rebuilding process.

Mr Lisle · Post by **Mr Lisle** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:13 pm

Idaho State 35 SSU 21 at the half. Announcers talking about a big crowd on hand in Pocatello.

77matcat · Post by **77matcat** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:55 pm

I believe JK has Kramer spot on.

Cliff got beat by griz by giving up 10 points with no time on clock. Think he was ok. But that's about it.

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