Recruiting Montana High School Players

[BozoneCat]

I can give you another interesting recruiting story about Dan Carpenter. He had offers from both schools, but was waiting to here from a D-1 school (he was hoping for BSU). Kramer became frustrated with the process and gave him an ultimatum to decide right on the spot. He was not ready to decide so he declined to commit to the Cats. The next day Kramer offered Bolton at GFH. Dan was leaning toward the Cats but Kramer gets very frustrated with recruits who are considering the griz. He has pulled many offers from recruits who were interested in the griz but non-committal.

I understand how difficult the recruiting process is, and can only appreciate how draining it is on the coaches. This story may help to explain why many Montana folks think Kramer doesn't recruit Montana kids very well. I know Bolton got the schollie instead in this case, but I imagine there are many other cases where the schollie goes to an out-of-stater. Let me just state for the record that I have absolutely no bias towards out-of-state kids, and also that I am happy we got Bolton instead of Carpenter.

Stories like this make me think Kramer needs to practice just a little more patience. This is not a small decision for any kid, and though I realize that many (most?) coaches do try to pressure kids into making the committment, I don't really like it. Nothing wrong with a little gentle pressure, but forcing an ultimatum probably isn't the most effective way of endearing yourself to a kid or his family.

[El_Gato]

Bozone,

I think one dynamic you're omitting is that there is a time element involved here. Maybe the in-state kid is slightly less-talented or less-desired than an out-of-state prospect; he gets an offer, however, BECAUSE he is a MT kid and that looks better overall for your program. If that kid starts dragging his feet, what happens if another kid "slips through the cracks" while we're waiting on him? If the MT kid decides NOT to take MSU's offer, our Coach just missed out and like it or not, WE FANS are going to be on his ass if this happens too often.

We have an outstanding football program AND university; I really don't have a problem with Kramer being a bit on the "high-pressure" side when it comes to recruits; any kid that we offer should be honored and should understand that time IS ultimately $$$ in college football, for everyone involved.

[couloir41]

ok...let's talk about recruiting and performance and pressure as it applies to college athletics...these kids are usually 18...or so...and coaches who give scholarships worth tens of thousands of dollars and run programs that have relatively large budgets have right to apply a little pressure particularly when they are not performing up to expectations...after all they could have been recruited by the marines, the army or some other branch of the military and in unceremonious (no glamor) fashion really know what pressure is all about...and ultimately what life and death teamwork is about if they don't perform to expectations...

bottom line is any man who gets a shot at a schollie should be damn grateful and not get overly pissy if it gets yanked for underperformance...after all this is not life and death for the recruiter or the recruitee...it is a game that deserves the best effort of all involved if someone else is footing the bill...

sorry about the rant...

that said...go cats...

[SausageCrotch]

The griz out recruited us for years but that started to change in the 2001-2002 timeframe. Now I would put the percentages at 50/50. It is also true that they don't always go after the same kids. There are some MT high school players that either Hauck or Kramer (but not both) don't think can play at this level. The biggest losses (to the griz) that I can remember (and that I new the Cats wanted bad) were Murphy, Hilliard and Carlson).

On the other hand the concensus top pick out of Montana the last three years has become a Cat (Goodman 03, Ophus 04 and Hoffenbacker 05). These picks did not work out (Hoff yet to be determined) but they were the best players from the state.

C'mon gtapp, let's be realistic here. UM got 6 out of the top 7 in-state prospects last year. That's a long ways from 50/50. And you're going to call Ophus the gem of the '03 crop?

[Wolfman]

Scrogger, i'm sure Hauck can turn on the charm when he has to. However, those of us who have to endure his dour personality on a daily basis as Griz fans know the true man. It doesn't take Dr. Phil to realize how Bobby is on an everyday basis.

I was told by the father of a Griz player from Stevensville that Kramer's aggresive attitude during the recruiting of his son really turned off he and his wife. He pressured the kid to commit right there. The kid ended up going to UM. He was not impressed by Kramer's recruiting style.

As a father, I would not be impressed with either of them, to tell you the truth. I could never trust Kramer, because I think he's basically a bullsh*t artist. And Hauck's squeeze-ring is cinched up much to tightly for me.

[thecitygriz]

i'm mighty suspicious of this wolfman character. i think he has multiple identities, all dedicated to the proposition that hauck is a bad guy and a bad coach, and all disguised to give impression that there are many griz fans disgruntled with hauck. this in point of fact is simply not true. this is one man's opinion.

as for hauck's recruiting abilities, let's play a game. i'll name the in-state recruits he's signed since he took over as head coach, and one of you cats out there name the ones kramer has signed the past three years, and we'll compare lists. okay?

hauck's 2003 class:
ryan gustafson, lex hilliard, tyson johnson, kelly kain, matt lebsock, eric michel, kyle ryan, kyle sampson, loren utterback;

hauck's 2004 class:
ryan bagley, kroy biermann, jesse carlson, dan carpenter, colon dow, mike ferriter, trapper hight, karl pitcher, rob schulte, torrey thomas;

hauck's 2005 class:
gabe brown, chris dyk, terran hillesland, kevin klaboe, shawn lebsock, austin mullins, jace palmer, tyler palmer, jolly righetti, shann schillinger, brandon utterback.

you guys claim 50-50, but i think it's more like 80-20 in hauck's favor. among those i know kramer would have loved to get: the lebsock brothers, the utterbacks, hillesland, carlson, hilliard and just about all the great falls kids--bagley, schulte, kain, mullins.

i've purposely left murphy off this list because i don't know if he was a hauck recruit, or joe glenn.

rebuttal?

p.s. i have no idea if you recruited him or not, but bozeman's andrew schmidt displayed a lot of talent at running back for us this spring.

p.p.s. as i look over this list, i see that kyle sampson transferred to northern and gabe brown has been something of a mystery man, either hurt or ineligible or both, but except for those two, these kids have all turned out well, and are either making solid contributions to the team, or are expected to next year.

[gtapp]

i'm mighty suspicious of this wolfman character. i think he has multiple identities, all dedicated to the proposition that hauck is a bad guy and a bad coach, and all disguised to give impression that there are many griz fans disgruntled with hauck. this in point of fact is simply not true. this is one man's opinion.

as for hauck's recruiting abilities, let's play a game. i'll name the in-state recruits he's signed since he took over as head coach, and one of you cats out there name the ones kramer has signed the past three years, and we'll compare lists. okay?

hauck's 2003 class:
ryan gustafson, lex hilliard, tyson johnson, kelly kain, matt lebsock, eric michel, kyle ryan, kyle sampson, loren utterback;

hauck's 2004 class:
ryan bagley, kroy biermann, jesse carlson, dan carpenter, colon dow, mike ferriter, trapper hight, karl pitcher, rob schulte, torrey thomas;

hauck's 2005 class:
gabe brown, chris dyk, terran hillesland, kevin klaboe, shawn lebsock, austin mullins, jace palmer, tyler palmer, jolly righetti, shann schillinger, brandon utterback.

you guys claim 50-50, but i think it's more like 80-20 in hauck's favor. among those i know kramer would have loved to get: the lebsock brothers, the utterbacks, hillesland, carlson, hilliard and just about all the great falls kids--bagley, schulte, kain, mullins.

i've purposely left murphy off this list because i don't know if he was a hauck recruit, or joe glenn.

rebuttal?

p.s. i have no idea if you recruited him or not, but bozeman's andrew schmidt displayed a lot of talent at running back for us this spring.

You are never SURE but from what I have heard:

2003: Hilliard was the only one he wanted bad, even though Lebsock you would think would have been on the list. Utterback was not offered at all until right before signing day and then there was little enthusiasm. He was just trying to keep the Fort Benton pipeline alive.

2004: Bagley, Carlson, Carpenter, and I think Thomas. He wasn't big on Schulte (even the griz have moved him from RB). Carlson actually gave a verbal to Kramer but got talked out of it by relatives and friends playing for the griz.

2005: I think it was Dyk and the Palmer's. Again, you would think Lebsock would be on the list but I think Kramer just conceded that one and did not make the effort.

Again,
I look at this list and I am not impressed. You never know how they will turn out. Each year the griz and Cats each bring in 18 to 24 kids (approx.) On average only 5-8 make it all 4 or 5 years. Marudas is the only player left from his class (he was the only one after only two years). Glenn's last class only had one player left after two years also. Of the remaining kids half are probably out of state recruits so that leaves 3 or 4 MT kids per class. Not a huge difference.

[gtapp]

C'mon gtapp, let's be realistic here. UM got 6 out of the top 7 in-state prospects last year. That's a long ways from 50/50. And you're going to call Ophus the gem of the '03 crop?

I heard from several sources at UM that Ophus was at the top of our list and your list for MT kids. And yes, it makes sense since he was a incredible athelete (6'4" 255 lbs. and could really move)(Very good Bball player).

The year before was Goodman who was expected to go D-1 and was by far the top recruit. Kramer called him the top MT recruit in the state in the last 20 years (over stated I will admit).

And this year it was Hoff.

These guys never worked out (Hoff future still unknown) but they were the TOP recruits in the State and they picked MSU.

[gtapp]

I forgot about Murphy (since he was not on citygriz's list). MSU wanted him very bad and the griz only offered a grey shirt. That one hurt!

[Eastcoastgriz]

i'm mighty suspicious of this wolfman character. i think he has multiple identities, all dedicated to the proposition that hauck is a bad guy and a bad coach, and all disguised to give impression that there are many griz fans disgruntled with hauck. this in point of fact is simply not true. this is one man's opinion.

as for hauck's recruiting abilities, let's play a game. i'll name the in-state recruits he's signed since he took over as head coach, and one of you cats out there name the ones kramer has signed the past three years, and we'll compare lists. okay?

hauck's 2003 class:
ryan gustafson, lex hilliard, tyson johnson, kelly kain, matt lebsock, eric michel, kyle ryan, kyle sampson, loren utterback;

hauck's 2004 class:
ryan bagley, kroy biermann, jesse carlson, dan carpenter, colon dow, mike ferriter, trapper hight, karl pitcher, rob schulte, torrey thomas;

hauck's 2005 class:
gabe brown, chris dyk, terran hillesland, kevin klaboe, shawn lebsock, austin mullins, jace palmer, tyler palmer, jolly righetti, shann schillinger, brandon utterback.

you guys claim 50-50, but i think it's more like 80-20 in hauck's favor. among those i know kramer would have loved to get: the lebsock brothers, the utterbacks, hillesland, carlson, hilliard and just about all the great falls kids--bagley, schulte, kain, mullins.

i've purposely left murphy off this list because i don't know if he was a hauck recruit, or joe glenn.

rebuttal?

p.s. i have no idea if you recruited him or not, but bozeman's andrew schmidt displayed a lot of talent at running back for us this spring.

You are never SURE but from what I have heard:

2003: Hilliard was the only one he wanted bad, even though Lebsock you would think would have been on the list. Utterback was not offered at all until right before signing day and then there was little enthusiasm. He was just trying to keep the Fort Benton pipeline alive.

2004: Bagley, Carlson, Carpenter, and I think Thomas. He wasn't big on Schulte (even the griz have moved him from RB). Carlson actually gave a verbal to Kramer but got talked out of it by relatives and friends playing for the griz.

2005: I think it was Dyk and the Palmer's. Again, you would think Lebsock would be on the list but I think Kramer just conceded that one and did not make the effort.

Again,
I look at this list and I am not impressed. You never know how they will turn out. Each year the griz and Cats each bring in 18 to 24 kids (approx.) On average only 5-8 make it all 4 or 5 years. Marudas is the only player left from his class (he was the only one after only two years). Glenn's last class only had one player left after two years also. Of the remaining kids half are probably out of state recruits so that leaves 3 or 4 MT kids per class. Not a huge difference.

In the number of Montana kids who stay 4 years or the total number of Montana kids recruited?

[thecitygriz]

i await your complete list of in-state recruits for the past three years, as i have provided. what surprises me about my list is how few washouts there have been. most of these kids are still in the program, and producing. i think you could easily make the case that a higher percentage of in-state kids stay with the program than out-of-state kids.

your envelope, please!

[gtapp]

i await your complete list of in-state recruits for the past three years, as i have provided. what surprises me about my list is how few washouts there have been. most of these kids are still in the program, and producing. i think you could easily make the case that a higher percentage of in-state kids stay with the program than out-of-state kids.

your envelope, please!

The instate kids I am sure have a higher % that stay on the team. We lose kids (both programs) from out of state because (among other reasons) they are homesick and miss friends and/or a girlfriend.

One reason it is hard to compare is the difference in philosophy's. Kramer believes that few MT kids can play at this level. He prefers CA kids (which makes up the majority of our roster). Everytime Hauck recruits a kid the griz assume MSU lost out and everytime Kramer gets a stud (like Goodman or Hoff) the griz say they did not really want him that bad. I am pretty sure that at least one half of your in state recruits Kramer was not interested in. Not that they can't play at 1-AA but that he thinks he can get better players out of state. I am not convinced of this but I beleive that Kramer is. I still don't believe Hauck's classes have been real good. Time will tell. His first class has been compared to a D-II class. Other than Hilliard, who on that list is a 1st team all BSC performer.

[twentythreeOh4]

One reason it is hard to compare is the difference in philosophy's. Kramer believes that few MT kids can play at this level. He prefers CA kids (which makes up the majority of our roster). Everytime Hauck recruits a kid the griz assume MSU lost out and everytime Kramer gets a stud (like Goodman or Hoff) the griz say they did not really want him that bad. I am pretty sure that at least one half of your in state recruits Kramer was not interested in. Not that they can't play at 1-AA but that he thinks he can get better players out of state. I am not convinced of this but I beleive that Kramer is. I still don't believe Hauck's classes have been real good. Time will tell. His first class has been compared to a D-II class. Other than Hilliard, who on that list is a 1st team all BSC performer.

One difference in philosophy that hasn't been mentioned is transfers players. Kramer has taken more transfers, and thus has had fewer scholarships to devote to developing high school players.

As for question the 1st team players, most of the 2003 class are only sophomores this year and still have a lot of games ahead of them.

[Down With the Foe!]

Anyone?


a Bobcat list over the past 3 seasons?


Inquiring minds want to know.

[Eastcoastgriz]

One reason it is hard to compare is the difference in philosophy's. Kramer believes that few MT kids can play at this level.

The GRIZ have proven this wrong.

[Wolfman]

Yeah right, Sh*ttyGriz, i'm a multiple identity guy. Well, how do you like THIS part of my identity? Shove your suspicious to an anaerobic environment!

So, Griz fans don't think Hauck is a joke, huh? Apparently you don't frequent Missoula bars. Every time I start talking Grizzly football in a Missoula bar, all I hear are complaints about Hauck. And, the esugar.comhasno Hauck-haters either, huh? Oh, I forgot, they are all the sameposter...ME! Get a clue or stop posting ridiculous sh*t like this!

Hauck is dislike by more than 50% of Griz fans. He can't coach, and is bring down the Grz program. Of course, how would you know?

[jagur1]

I need to see a link on that 50%? Prove it. Stop calling people names. This isn't the smack board.

[Wolfman]

This "recruiting genius" lable that GRiz fans have given to Hauck is totally without justification. First, look at the U. of Washington program. They have almost no seniors starting from Hauck's last recruiting class. THat program is in the sh*tter. Great job there, Bobby! Same for Colorado. Hauck's recruits at Colorado stunk. When he bolted for UDub after the heat was turned up on RickyN and his Hitler Youth, Hauck left the cupboard bare for Barnett.

UM fans don't form opinions based on fact, they embellish things to fit into their compact little mind-set which states that anything and everything to do with the Griz is perfect in every way. This attitude is born out every day, and is nauseating to me, a true Griz fan.

Bobby Hauck is able to get the best Montana recruits because of the stadium,tradition, and state fan base. Period. It has NOTHING to do with his recruiting prowess. Furthermore, Kramer is MUCH BETTER at securing impact IA drop-downs, as well as recruiting out-of-state high school players. To suggest that Hauck is even in the same league in this area is not supported by the number of All-conference players from out-of-state in the two programs.

[grizindahouse]

Wolfy, here is my take on the Hauck deal. I would say a majority of the fans are displeased with many of his coaching decisions on a weekly basis. But here is the difference, you are showing your personal dislike for him as a person, and taking every shot possilbe to levy personal attacks on the man. What you here in the bars, is people complaining about the state of Montana football with Hauck as coach, which I will not argue with, but I believe that you are one of the few that takes every chance possible to go beyond showing your dislike for how he coaches, and shows your personal dislike, almost hatred, for the guy. This is why so many people get into sophomoric name calling sessions with you, the personal attacks you throw at everyone that does not agree with you philosophy on a topic, Oh boy, do not disagree with Wolfy. Wolfy, if you stayed away from the personal attacks, many more people would express the same ideas as you more often. Hauck as a person does have some issues, but a mafority of the people complain about his handling of the Grizzlies, and not about a personal dislike for him. (Unless you are a Cat fan )

[El_Gato]

The following are all Montana kids that are Juniors or under; I'm not sure of the red shirt status of any of them, but they would all most likely be recruited within the last 3 years.

Jesse Anderson, FR
Elliot Barnhart, SO
Bryan Beniger, FR
Brant Birkeland, JR
Tyler Bolton, FR
Brandon Bostick, FR
Adam Brockway, FR
Kyle Burch, FR
Clayton Curley, JR
Bobby Daly, FR
Adam DeCock, SO
Chris Drewiskie, SO
Grant Elliot, JR
Ben Fjare, FR
Dane Fletcher, FR
Chase Gazzero, FR
Derek Green, FR
Jeff Hanson, FR
Brandon Hoffenbacker
Brett Irigoin, FR
Dylan Kinkelaar, FR
Ty McDonald, SO
Sean Neill, FR
Aaron Papich, SO
Nick Parker, FR
Matt Peebles, FR
Jeff Price, FR
Michael Rogers, JR
Toby Rundle, FR
Joe Schreibeis, FR
Chris Smith, FR
Braxton Thelan, FR
Jim Verlanic, FR

24 Freshmen, 5 Sophomores; the jury is out on how most of these kids will pan out; no doubt some will turn out to be great players (Bobby Daly is already very good) while some will no doubt fall into the "left-over" category.