Letter & Response from Chronicle's Hinkelman

Post by **kmax** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:16 pm

Alright Jeff, first off I will say thank you for coming on and posting a response. Next I will ask why you ignore what many of us were saying we disliked about Hink's article and email response. Nearly everything you wrote dealt with complaints about wanting you to be a fan of the Bobcats, thinking you are Griz fans, etc. etc.

Now go back and read the posts from myself, Bozone, barechestcat, mchammer and the like. Again and again in response to people who have defended, as you did, the reporters right and duty to be unbiased we agreed and said we had no problem with that and I for one hope for that as well. What we did take offense to is him taking what amounts to a difference of opinion on a person and used it to tell off the "diehard" bobcat fans. I will say again, for probably the fifth time in this thread, if he is trying to be unbiased and stay away from the fan aspect this is not how you do it. Your article on Hauck from earlier this year at least presented a different side of Hauck to back up your opinion, regardless if people agree with you. Hink simply says it is irrational behavior and in essence calls everyone who thinks that way stupid. Talk about getting off on the wrong foot! Then in his response he admits that Bobby "can be surly and he may not have the recommended daily allowance of tact" yet he doesn't get why some Cat fans may not like him. In many rivalries just the fact he is the other teams coach is enough, and don't tell me you have never seen this in rivalries during your days of covering sports.

Bottom line, he got caught up in a rivalry argument and presented a "I'm right and your wrong" attitude about it. Just doesn't seem like jounalism to me, unbiased or not, it seems like something I would expect from from Rush or O'Reilly.

And if you think we have been ignoring all of the columns that reflect on MSU positively you should come on here more often than just when you get negative feedback on an article. You and I both know you will hear more about the bad than you ever will the good, but there have been many "good job's" and "thank yous" on this board over the improved coverage of the Bobcats.

Post by **kmax** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:20 pm

bozbobcat wrote:One of the improvements that the Chronicle could make on top of the many improvements made already is to note that the majority of Bobcat fans are good and intelligent people. It seems like some of the Chronicle staff talks down to us, and we would appreciate better. We have some damn good fans here and it would be great to hear it from the Chronicle. That basketball article last year made us mad. We have better attendance here than a lot of places, especially most of the Big Sky. By the way, the reason we don't like Hauck is because he refused to say the words "Montana" and "State" in the same sentence after we beat them in 2003. That's awfully poor sportsmanship.

I will agree to a point, in that Hink's article treated Bobcat fans that way, at least for the wrong reasons as I posted in the previous response. However I disagree about the need for the Chronicle to acknowledge the fans. The BBall article did not make me mad, in fact I thought it was right on target. It was not that long ago that I was attending MSU and BBall was a big event. Now we barely(if we do) sell out Cat-Griz. That article in my opinion was on the money and I thank Welsch for putting it out there.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:33 pm

Let me start by stating that I believe CatFamily was the only member here who requested that the local reporters write stories and report "as fans" of the Bobcats.

I stated this previously, Jeff, but I honestly have no problem if you & your staff choose to cover the Cats as "unbiasedly" as possible. I really don't care if you like them nor root for them. I only read the Chronicle when I'm in town for games so I can't speak to what you do during the week and for road games, but I think your coverage of the Cats on & around gamedays is fine.

Also, I was sincere when I posted early on in this thread that AH's coverage while at the Interlake WAS pretty neutral regarding Cat/Griz. Obviously he spent more time on the Griz but his pieces never led me to believe that he was a "fan".

Hopefully, my biggest beef with AH is obvious by now; I think it was a TERRIBLE lapse in judgement to debut with the piece he did. It was a slap in the face, IMO, to a significant # of Bobcat fans. The bottom line: If some of us choose not to like Hauck for whatever reason(s), why is that of concern to him? What compelled him to insult those particular fans in the manner he did? He is being paid to cover the local sports scene & yes, I suppose Bobcat fans fall into that realm, but as I said, it is a RIVALRY and I would venture that rarely is the animosity between bitter rivals grounded in anything substantive.

Maybe AH IS one of those writers who WANTS to piss in the soup & get people talking about his work; maybe his debut WAS intended to get our blood boiling and start his Bozeman career with a BANG; I don't know. If that's his M.O., then I say mission accomplished but I would think the "brass" at the BDC might be a bit concerned about backlash. If not, then tell him to keep it up and continue to fire away! I'm pretty sure he'll always find more than enough folks here who will let him know how he's "progressing"!

I will add that I think the Missoulian gives more ink to their "hometown" teams than any paper I've ever read. It's not always positive nor from the perspective of a "fan" but they sure do cover the crap out of Missoula area sports! Anybody that can right 10 paragraphs about a Hellgate/Sentinel football game should get the Pulitzer in my book!

Overall, Jeff, I'll take the word of MOST of the posters I see here that the Chronicle's coverage of the Bobcats HAS improved immensely. I know that you don't take the stuff you read here TOO seriously; please keep up the effort!

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:41 pm

I was going to write a response to Jeff, but kmax and El Gato pretty much covered what I would have said. It is hard to fathom how bright people can continue to fail to read anything that doesn't fit into their preconceived notions (i.e., we all want a "fan" to report the Bobcat news, etc.).

I didn't disagree with one thing that Jeff wrote, and I also want to make sure to thank him for coming on here and addressing the situation in a very nice and professional way. It is a little disheartening to read the response and see that he missed the #1 complaint that has filled the 4+ pages of this thread, however.

Post by **rtb** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:02 pm

I would like to echo the comments. I appreciate Jeff coming here and speaking up, but you missed the whole reason this thread took off. Andrew's article was definately taken by many people the wrong way...you don't "call out" your main readership and give them a giant FU on your first day of work. On top of his article showing a poor attitude towards Cat fans, the email response he sent was very unprofessional. More than anything, I can't believe the way he responded. He needs to be taught a little bit on how to handle himself more professionally.

I would have to say that your job is a lot like a ref. No matter what you do, somebody is going to be upset. It is the ability to take a little criticism and respond with grace that makes you a professional. I remember when Jeff wrote the article making fun of BobcatNaiton, we all responded with rage and he replied with grace...now look where he is. On the other hand, Andrew just snapped back and pissed everyone off more!

I would like to see him step up with the class that Jeff did.

GOKATS · Post by **GOKATS** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:23 pm

rtb wrote:I would like to echo the comments. I appreciate Jeff coming here and speaking up, but you missed the whole reason this thread took off. Andrew's article was definately taken by many people the wrong way...you don't "call out" your main readership and give them a giant FU on your first day of work. On top of his article showing a poor attitude towards Cat fans, the email response he sent was very unprofessional. More than anything, I can't believe the way he responded. He needs to be taught a little bit on how to handle himself more professionally.

I would have to say that your job is a lot like a ref. No matter what you do, somebody is going to be upset. It is the ability to take a little criticism and respond with grace that makes you a professional. I remember when Jeff wrote the article making fun of BobcatNaiton, we all responded with rage and he replied with grace...now look where he is. On the other hand, Andrew just snapped back and pissed everyone off more!

I would like to see him step up with the class that Jeff did.

I really do appreciate the improved sports coverage of not only the 'Cats, but all the local sports teams. Jeff has said all along that their goal is to improve local sports coverage and that that once they, the "Chronicle" sports department filled their staff, things would only get better.

My disappointment is the way in which the new hire introduced himself to the area and the readership of the local paper.

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:47 pm

Just to thow in my 2 cents. My father was a newspaper man, among other things so I bring a little different approach.... or maybe not. I just found the articlewell...... lazy. From a writers point of view - which i am not- it was easy and simple. Simply a stream of conscienceness kind of thimg that will fill up space. There was no real attempt to find out why some Bobcats (for a lack of better term) feel the way we do. Just blurt some out some facts, draw some conclusions and blam in about 20 minutes he has filled up a column for a day. The problem was that it was his introduction column, and he took some broad shots at the people he was tring to introduce himself to. The story was incomplete.

For the record I have observed carefully from Missoula four UM football coachs and staff. Each staff has had its own image in my mind.

Read; The Architect and teacher.
Dennehy; The clown
Glenn; The protypical big time college coach (or the little Ronald Regan)
Hauck; The obnouxiuos SOB

There is a reason they get their reputation, that is where the real Story lies.

BTW for my griz friends to be Fair

Solmenson; The Joke
Hysell; The good guy, who just can not get it done.
Kramer; The big Human (or the not so little Jessie Ventura)

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:52 pm

Jeff Welsch wrote:So, here goes: Some of what I've read in this thread is so patently absurd it defies logic. The Chronicle's maroon flag a reflection of our school loyalties? Please. I'd conservatively estimate that 80 percent of the people who work here could care less about the Cat-Griz rivalry.

Jeff took that little off the cuff comment of mine a little too seriously-the Chronicle's maroon banner isn't that big of an issue for me. Back when the Chronicle was just getting online and Jeff was off in Boise or somewhere, the Chronicle's only web address was www.gomontana.com. I figured it was probably some um journalism grad's idea of being funny, but I didn't care much one way or the other.

Since Jeff has taken over the sports pages of the Chronicle I think it has been much improved. The gameday page is terrific and the 2 or 3 articles and pictures and stats in the Sunday edition are more big time than we've been used to. I also appreciate the international coverage we've seen of events like the Tour de France and World Cup qualifying.

Of course the Chronicle can't please everyone. There's a recent letter to the editor complaining of too much Bobcats and not enough local high schools sports. This person apparantly thinks more coverage of Manhattan's girl's cross-country will expand their readership.

profisme · Post by **profisme** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:54 pm

First off I want to say that it is nice to have columnists who care about their job (i.e. like what they are doing and choose to do it in a professional manner). I didn't believe that "Hink's" article was overly abrasive to myself because I never take too seriously what is written by sports writers. It seems like superlatives are the norm in sportswriting and you almost have to go "over the top" (not the Sylvester Stallone movie) just to grab the average reader's attention.

This, however, isn't a forum in which a person has to make outlandish claims to get attention, nor is it a place to berate someone for their views (the place for that is the smack board). I believe that all we Cat fans here would be overly satisfied if the sportswriters at the Chronicle, namely "Hink", would approach their job like it is something they enjoy doing. Choosing to ridicule Bobcat fans for their zeal towards their team, whether founded or not, is not a way to do that (unless you were the 5th grade bully who never grew up).

In conclusion, Jeff and "Hink", whether your writing is biased or not, whether the articles are positive or not, we ask simply for you to write well and to report what is happening as if you cared for the subject upon which you write. Thank you again Jeff.

spider · Post by **spider** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:33 pm

GFGriz wrote:
mchammer wrote:Then he should be a reporter and report something. His first column assumed a different calling. Reporters should report, and let fans be fans, whether he understands them or not.
The only difference is that the focus of Griz fans are the Griz and their coach, while the focus of State fans are ................. the Griz and their coach.

Hey GFGriz you reminded me of the lyrics of a popular song,

"YOU'RE SO VAIN, YOU PROBABLY THINK THIS SONG IS ABOUT YOU....DON'T YOU....DON'T YOU."

GFGriz · Post by **GFGriz** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:53 pm

spider wrote:
GFGriz wrote:
mchammer wrote:Then he should be a reporter and report something. His first column assumed a different calling. Reporters should report, and let fans be fans, whether he understands them or not.
The only difference is that the focus of Griz fans are the Griz and their coach, while the focus of State fans are ................. the Griz and their coach.
Hey GFGriz you reminded me of the lyrics of a popular song,

"YOU'RE SO VAIN, YOU PROBABLY THINK THIS SONG IS ABOUT YOU....DON'T YOU....DON'T YOU."

Actually, that's not true. Ok, so you are obviously covered by the Americans With Disabilities Act. I guess I have to t y p e really s l o w l y. I come on this board and find all of you State fans in a panic because a reporter has reported the obvious: you have this unnatural fixation on the Griz coach, who is demonstrably a good guy. And now we have page after page of State outrage at being called on it by an objective reporter. You've been diss'ed because a reporter won't join you in your fixation. In the end, it's all about the Griz, and Bobby, and "We Hate The Griz." It's like watching a train wreck: you know you should stay away, but it's so pathetic it can't be ignored.

GavinDonos · Post by **GavinDonos** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:33 am

I've an improvement for the Chronicle. I'd like to see a 10-15 page poster book of glossy photograhps from the previous day's game included with every Sunday ed.

Thanks in advance,
Gav

P.S. GFGriz, us 'Cat fans can focus on several million subjects at once... your dorky coach is but one of them. To say we only talk about the Griz obviously means that the only threads you pay any attention to on here are the ones that have something to do with your teddies, you silly, self-absorbed attention princess! There, now you've been called out and diss'ed... please log out and immediately forget your password.

Down With the Foe! · Post by **Down With the Foe!** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:38 am

GavinDonos wrote:There, now you've been called out and diss'ed... please log out and immediately forget your password.

Smack

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:36 am

rtb wrote:I would like to echo the comments. I appreciate Jeff coming here and speaking up, but you missed the whole reason this thread took off. Andrew's article was definately taken by many people the wrong way...you don't "call out" your main readership and give them a giant FU on your first day of work. On top of his article showing a poor attitude towards Cat fans, the email response he sent was very unprofessional. More than anything, I can't believe the way he responded. He needs to be taught a little bit on how to handle himself more professionally.

I would have to say that your job is a lot like a ref. No matter what you do, somebody is going to be upset. It is the ability to take a little criticism and respond with grace that makes you a professional. I remember when Jeff wrote the article making fun of BobcatNaiton, we all responded with rage and he replied with grace...now look where he is. On the other hand, Andrew just snapped back and pissed everyone off more!

I would like to see him step up with the class that Jeff did.

Couldn't have said it better myself. My thoughts exactly.

Ponycat · Post by **Ponycat** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:20 am

Anyone ever heard the saying "if makes you made than it's probably true"

I personally haven't been a fan of the Chronicle sports page for some time now but it has nothing to do with their Cats, Griz, or Hauck coverage.

Also Mr. Welsch, for the first time (I read the Sunday paper about once a month when it's not football so I've missed a lot of your articles) I was very impressed with your writing this Sunday. Not sure I agree with you theory but really enjoyed the article. More of these please.

CatFamily · Post by **CatFamily** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:04 am

After reading the any responses I have a few things to follow up on my first thread.

One, I very much appreciate Jeff responding on BobcatNation to all the discussions. Thanks Jeff. This tells me the website has some very meaningful information and good feedback in the discussions. I for one appreciate the biggest majority of the BobcatNation participants.

Two, I believe I was wrong in suggesting Hink be a "fan of the Bobcats" as so well analyzed by the board. It is the papers responsibility to report on the facts and stories of the athletics in and around the Bobcat teams. Since I have been reading the Chronicle (20+ years) the coverage of Bobcat sports is by far and away the best I have read. Thank you Jeff for that also.

Third, I do however, feel very strongly about Hink's respsonse to me and in the article taking a very negative shot at Bobcat fans. He made it personal to a segement of fans, was very sarcastic in his delivery, and "called out" the fans. This has been discussed enought, but Jeff, you know he was wrong in this attack and Hink, you need to evaluate your professionalism. Now, I think we have made our points and we need to go forward and be done with this for now. Thanks everyone.

Platinumcat · Post by **Platinumcat** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:16 am

Jeff Welsch wrote:Since first viewing this thread yesterday, I have been debating whether to respond. Conventional wisdom in the sports writing and coaching community is to avoid Internet message boards like the plague, but -- until now -- I've tended to view BobcatNation.com as a rare bastion of rationality and have appreciated my occasional stopovers here.

Because I've the civil discourse on this board, and because of my continuing commitment to connecting with Bobcat fans, I'll plow ahead nevertheless, probably destined for shark-infested waters.

So, here goes: Some of what I've read in this thread is so patently absurd it defies logic. The Chronicle's maroon flag a reflection of our school loyalties? Please. I'd conservatively estimate that 80 percent of the people who work here could care less about the Cat-Griz rivalry.

A few other thoughts:

* You want the Chronicle to "support" or be a "fan" of the Cats? All right, then what message exactly does at least one football story a day send to you? Show me another media outlet that does that and I'll tip my hat to whomever that is, and try to step it up here.

* If you find our coverage lacking, tell us WHERE it is lacking. One or two of you weren't happy with the Weber State coverage; fair enough, I can accept that we can always do better. But we did have two stories and eight photographs. Tell me who exceeded our efforts, and why. Be constructive.

* It seems message board fans, being on the extreme wing of fandom (c'mon, we all have to admit that), can't fathom a sports writer not being a fan. If we're not Bobcats, then surely we're Grizzlies or devoted to somebody else, and, well, if we're in Bozeman we should be MSU fans. No. I'm a fan of people who play sports, and I enjoy sports. Period. I like almost everybody I've dealt with at MSU, and hope they do well, but feel the same way about UM, Weber, PSU, etc. But I don't have emotional sports attachments to institutions - not even my alma mater, Arizona State.

* I will say again that I fervently believe that you as Bobcat fans and readers are better served if we AREN'T fans of the teams. As paying customers, I'd think you'd want somebody out there keeping an objective eye out for you, just the way you need the media to keep an objective eye out for government, etc. Without it, we have no credibility ... just look at Fox and CBS, among others. Does anybody really believe they're getting an objective, believable slant from either of these outlets? If we only seek out "positive" news on the Cats and "negative" news on the Griz, then you'd know you have to take everything we write with a grain of salt. And how would that help the Cats?

P.S.: It's remarkable to me that many of you guys get so bent out of shape about Hink's column or my piece on Bobby Hauck, and you completely ignore the many stories that do reflect positively on MSU, most recently the column I wrote last week on Nick Marudas. The same credibility gap thus exists, only in reverse. If your criticism doesn't come from an objective place, it doesn't have much credibility, either.

* Experience has shown me that the only way to avoid criticism on these boards is to be a shameless homer/apologist. Well, I worked with one of those writers in Corvallis, and while he was popular on OSU's message boards, nobody in our profession or in the athletic department respected him, and even the majority of OSU fans I knew felt that way. If we're not irritating you from time to time, we're not doing our jobs, and when we praise the Cats (e.g., Marudas), we need you to know it's authentic.

As I said, our "support" is in the amount of copy we provide on MSU -- more than any other media outlet, I'm certain (much to the chagrin of many of our readers who think we have WAY too much on the Cats). It isn't support as much as it's recognition that our readers want Cat news, and we have the opportunity to do something better than anybody else.

A final thought: The goal of a columnist is to provoke thought and water-cooler discussion. Like them or not, many of our columns, including Hink's, have people talking about what's in the Chronicle. I'm guessing in the past few years, you've been talking about what's NOT in the Chronicle.

All right. Fire away. Thanks for the vine and, again, if you have some constructive criticism, I'm all ears.

jeff welsch

Jeff,
I do appreciate your responding. Also, I do give you kudos on doing exactly what you set out to do when the new staff came to town in late summer of '04. Your local coverage has become exponentially better and I'd be willing to bet you're starting to get those calls from coaches after their game/match (which I know wasn't coming when you got here). The stories on Marudas and King and every other one are exactly what I like seeing in the Chronicle. I also like seeing the stories on local high school athletes from time to time. As I know you're aware, many times we don't speak up unless irritated (no news from us is usually good news).

Now, to your response:

1) Only one person on this board has said that they want you to write as if you were a fan. If you truly read this you would have seen many people state that they want fair reporting on SPORTS. For Hink's first article to "call out" a local fan base is not reporting the sports. That's taking a pot shot from a position of advantage. The people on this board couldn't have cared less if he was a Griz fan, Cat fan, no fan. To characterize even a few people as the consensus for a group is stereotypical and very poor journalism at best.

2) You're not going to go without criticism. Again, you know that you can't satisfy all of the people all of the time. Those Bobcat fans that hate the Griz no matter what are not ever going to want to see a story about Coach Hauck and what a swell guy he is (just like you've heard from the fans of the golf team, volleyball team and I'm sure a host of others as to the lack of equality in coverage).

3) You and I have had discussions via e-mail regarding this whole "provocative journalism" in order to stimulate a response. I still don't agree with it. Again, you talk about doing unbiased reporting. But, when you throw your own opinions in on something are you not being biased at that point? Here's my point: If Hink would have done some actual research to support his comments at least he would have had something to fall back on in this case of whiplash (that's good reporting right). But, instead he states his opinion and it comes off as being very offensive.

4) In the end you need to realize that this whole topic has not been so much a knock on the Chronicle's sports department but on one specific individual who has introduced himself in a bad way. The only comments on the Chronicle in general have been that to stop supporting the paper if it is going to allow this kind of "reporting" to take place.

Edit: Looks like I forgot to look at the last page of responses and have repeated what many have already said.

Platinumcat · Post by **Platinumcat** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:36 am

GFGriz wrote:
spider wrote:
GFGriz wrote:
mchammer wrote:Then he should be a reporter and report something. His first column assumed a different calling. Reporters should report, and let fans be fans, whether he understands them or not.
The only difference is that the focus of Griz fans are the Griz and their coach, while the focus of State fans are ................. the Griz and their coach.
Hey GFGriz you reminded me of the lyrics of a popular song,

"YOU'RE SO VAIN, YOU PROBABLY THINK THIS SONG IS ABOUT YOU....DON'T YOU....DON'T YOU."
Actually, that's not true. Ok, so you are obviously covered by the Americans With Disabilities Act. I guess I have to t y p e really s l o w l y. I come on this board and find all of you State fans in a panic because a reporter has reported the obvious: you have this unnatural fixation on the Griz coach, who is demonstrably a good guy. And now we have page after page of State outrage at being called on it by an objective reporter. You've been diss'ed because a reporter won't join you in your fixation. In the end, it's all about the Griz, and Bobby, and "We Hate The Griz." It's like watching a train wreck: you know you should stay away, but it's so pathetic it can't be ignored.

GFGriz,
I'm not quite sure how to talk to you: YELL, t a l k s l o w, or use simple words. The reason for my opening statement is your commitment to the belief that we spend our life talking about nothing but Coach Hauck. Have you looked at the other topics on this board? Have you looked at some of the topics on the egriz? So, we're still pissed at some things that Coach Hauck did two and three years ago. Yeah! So? If you have been on egriz recently you would have noticed the five page conversation on whether Lulay is the best QB in BSC history. My point? Don't sit there and pretend that it's only Bobcat fans who obsess over their rival. Griz fans do it just as much also. That's what a rivalry is. So, if you're going to accuse us of being myopic just know that it's on both sides!!!

Jeff Welsch · Post by **Jeff Welsch** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:39 am

All right ... this is more like it. Thoughtful responses all.

Enough beating of the dead horses. A coupla more thoughts:

* Though we all like kudos more, I really don't mind criticism, constructive or otherwise. Beats the heck out of apathy or indifference.

* Columns are meant to be biased; they are the reporter's bias. The rest is supposed to be impartial, though truth be known that's virtually impossible. We all see a game or story through our own lenses; every time we choose an angle to a story, we're making an editorial judgment. The important thing is not to get caught up into it emotionally.

* I appreciate all the feedback about the Chronicle sports, supportive and otherwise. We're a young staff, definitely a work in progress, but be assured everyone here is focused on providing a section of utmost value for a wide variety of readers in the Gallatin Valley and in Bobcat Nation.

* Obviously I'm not going to comment publicly on the work of any employee ... good, bad or otherwise.

* Can we not let this thread go on much longer? Heaven forbid that the newbie reporter get more "replies" and "views" than the sports editor's piece on Bobby Hauck. Don't make me bump that one.

-- jw

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:47 am

Jeff Welsch wrote:=* Can we not let this thread go on much longer? Heaven forbid that the newbie reporter get more "replies" and "views" than the sports editor's piece on Bobby Hauck. Don't make me bump that one.

Too true, too true.