Question for visiting Griz fans

Platinumcat · Post by **Platinumcat** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:31 am

Let me preface this by saying this is a honest question and I would like to see all parties respond in non-sarcastic manner:

I've noticed an increase in tension lately between Griz and Cat fans. Now, it is entirely possible that we are getting caught up in the season. But, the remarks are pretty much staying consistent. It seems that we, cat fans, come off as whiney, respect us respect us, Hauck haters. IMO Griz fans come off as brash, arrogant, not willing to give credit that the 'Cat program has improved drastically and, if not yet, has come very close to catching up with the Griz.

So, to my questions:

1) What is your true take on Coach Hauck from a professional and personal stand point?

2) Bobcat fans are starting to exude some confidence in our football team. From what I see, we are doing a lot of the same things that Griz fans do on egriz; critiquing team play, posting predictions on their team as well as others, generally having pro-griz/cat conversations. So, why the need to jump in on these conversations and respond with sarcasm and sharp wit?

3) Can we not be adversaries, yet be respectful of one another? I'm all for debating issues that arise on the Bobcat board. But, I'm well past the days of teasing your mother.

So, what say you Griz fans? Also, feel free to add in any other earnest thoughts you may have that pertain to this discusssion.

jagur1 · Post by **jagur1** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:33 am

info197176 · Post by **info197176** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:52 am

Ok, I’ll bite; Coach Hauck is a young, brash, blunt, honest Montana Guy. He has done some things in the past that I’m sure he regrets, but I do believe he has made huge improvements in his P.R. skills. The problem is he is under a microscope esp. by you cat fans. Things that he has said or may have said are often blown out of proportion. The same cannot be said for Kramer, i.e. last week on his pre-game show when asked about Weber State’s QB’s big numbers against the Griz his response was “that’s not surprising they can’t defend the pass”.(btw he may be right..we will see on Sat.) If Hauck said that or something akin to that he would be roasted and toasted by cat fans.. A friend of mine in Missoula who is not a Hauck supporter by any means probably said the most accurate statement that I’ve ever hear about our coach, “say what you want about Bobby, the son-of-a-bitch can coach”. Unfortunately for you he’s no Earl Salmonson.

You’re right..we shouldn’t jump in…I have attempted to be more reserved in my comments on your board the last several weeks, even when obviously stupid comments are made, i.e. “the fizz won because we beat ISU up for them the week before…”

I have and will continue to be respectful, say what you want TL is a stud and is the only guy in our league that can win a game single-handedly. I will be glad when he is gone. That being said, I wonder how your team will be next year without him??

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:00 am

barechestcat wrote:1) What is your true take on Coach Hauck from a professional and personal stand point?

I dont know him personally, so its hard to be real objective. I think the jury is out on him as a coach. His success last year I attribute more to Craig Ochs and the system inplace prior to Hauck arriving at UM than I do to Bobby. Given that, he has only been a head coach for 3 seasons now, and is obviously still learning - especially in the public relations department. As a recruiter, he is top notch. I honestly think he could go to MSU-Northern and recruit athletes there. Back to his public relations, he could use some serious work. Maybe its an act, but he wears his hatred for MSU on his sleeve, then again, maybe that's not such a bad thing when it comes to rivalries... look at Bo Schembecler/Woody Hayes in their days with UM-OSU, they got down right nasty. Still, some respect for the school and football program out of Bobby would be appreciated.

barechestcat wrote:2) Bobcat fans are starting to exude some confidence in our football team. From what I see, we are doing a lot of the same things that Griz fans do on egriz; critiquing team play, posting predictions on their team as well as others, generally having pro-griz/cat conversations. So, why the need to jump in on these conversations and respond with sarcasm and sharp wit?

Cat fans see a program on the rise, and want to see it go even higher. We've seen the success in Missoula the last 20 years, and see no reason why we cant have the same thing. We are getting closer, but still have quite a ways to go. Like winning a playoff game for starters... listening Coach Kramer!?!?!?!

barechestcat wrote:3) Can we not be adversaries, yet be respectful of one another? I'm all for debating issues that arise on the Bobcat board. But, I'm well past the days of teasing your mother.

I used to absolutely hate the Griz no matter who they were playing or what they were doing, but I've gotten past that. Maybe partly due to MSU finally beating them in football, I dont know. Now-a-days, if the outcome of a UM game doesnt effect how MSU will finish the season in the standings, I truly root for the Griz to do well. Just as I would if EWU was playing in the playoffs or against a I-A foe, if anyone in the Big Sky succeeds on a national level, it bodes well for everyone. I think you will hear the same answer from a few Griz fans, but see if that holds true if UM ever misses the playoffs and MSU is advancing in them. Will Griz fans be supporting us then? I am supporting them and their MT kids, I'd hope they'd do the same. This weekend, I am pulling for UM to beat EWU. EWU I think is the obvious best team in conference, and having them saddled with 2 losses really helps MSU. Plus, that leads up to Cat-Griz game being played for all the marbles yet again this year. And having UM finish second to MSU each and every year is what its all about!

grizbeer · Post by **grizbeer** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:24 am

1) I think Bobby is somewhat brash and cocky, with a sarcastic sense of humor. Some people like it, some don't. A Griz friend of mine couldn't stand Bobby until we went to the signing day party together and he got to see Bobby operate in his environment, not in a TV, radio or print interview, where he is personable and funny. I think if most Cat fans who hate Bobby, but didn't know what he looked like, ran into him in a bar or party they would think he is a great guy. I think this is the Bobby that most reporters get to see, and why they don't understand the Cat Nation hate for him.

2) As the Cat's have improved and the fan base has gotten bigger you are starting to pick up more fringe fans, or new fans that haven't been through the message board wars before. For whatever reason Cat fans this year also seem to feel that the Griz have fallen and aren't at the top of the league anymore - even some of the better posters on Bobcat Nation seem to pick the Griz to lose every week now. I really don't see Griz fans not giving MSU respect (except for the obvious smack), but I do see a lot of Cat fans predicting gloom and doom for the Griz, and Griz fans are reacting to this. Also there is a lot of interaction between E-Griz and this board, so somethings start on one board and follow to the other.

3) It might be easier to have civil conversations if every reference to the Griz wasn't jizz, fizz, or dUMb. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't hurt my feelings, but when you respond to post that says the jizz will lose because... or dUMb will lose because... you probably are not going to get a respectful reply.

4) Most of this is just how message boards work - read the free Oregon boards and look at the interactions between Duck and Beaver or Husky fans - Griz-cat interaction are polite by comparison.

anacondagriz · Post by **anacondagriz** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:12 pm

I think a lot of supposed Griz fans who post on here are probably the jerks that we as fans cringe at. They are just here to say stupid crap that will get the Cat nation up in arms. El Gato took a beating on Egriz this week for his comments that he would shocked if the Griz beat ISU. I say who cares, he has always been respectful on Egriz so let him eat some crow & move on. MslaCat is another guy who adds does nothing but up my respect for Cat fans, plus it is fun trying to decipher his spelling. I also think Grizlaw is a good poster on this board. What I am trying to say is message boards like this & Egriz are breeding grounds for morons who post something w/o the worry of repurcussions. My respect for MSU has grown exponentially in the last few years & while I still root for you guys to lose each week I can give you your due when you do win. I hope our rivalry continues but I also hope the hatred doesn't get out of hand like it seems to be heading.

Platinumcat · Post by **Platinumcat** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:31 pm

Jag - I'm uncertain of what you're unsure of. I'm just trying to gain more insight into the direction our dialogue goes a lot of the time.

grizbeer - I think that you are right to an extent about the boards being what they are. But, I share a concern with anacondagriz that it seems to be escalating. I look forward to this rivalry continuing strongly for a long time. But, I don't want to see it get to a point where I can't go to Wa Griz stadium all dressed in 'Cat wear due to violence; same for you coming to Bozeman.

grizbeer · Post by **grizbeer** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:43 pm

barechestcat wrote:Jag - I'm uncertain of what you're unsure of. I'm just trying to gain more insight into the direction our dialogue goes a lot of the time.

grizbeer - I think that you are right to an extent about the boards being what they are. But, I share a concern with anacondagriz that it seems to be escalating. I look forward to this rivalry continuing strongly for a long time. But, I don't want to see it get to a point where I can't go to Wa Griz stadium all dressed in 'Cat wear due to violence; same for you coming to Bozeman.

I don't think it will get that bad bcc - i know some people had a rough time at Bozeman in 2003, and I'm sure some people had a rough time in Missoula in 2004, but I think these are the exceptions.

When I was in Bozeman in 2003 I took a lot of good natured ribbing, and had fun with it. I did have one guy who stood up and started blustering, but it was easy enough to laugh and walk away, and he wasn't getting support from other Cat fans. Last year in Missoula I saw a jerk spray a Cat fan with silly string, and it really upset the women to the point that she got up and slapped the hat off the women who sprayed her, but the women had also sprayed a bunch of griz fans in the process, and everyone around figured it would be better of both parties left the area, which they did.

The point is there might be problems, but probably not any worse than it has been in the past, and Cat fans shouldn't have to be afraid to wear their colors in Missoula or Griz in Bozeman. In the end it comes down to how we deal with individuals, not how we deal with Cat or Griz fans.

Eastcoastgriz · Post by **Eastcoastgriz** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:17 pm

I have met the coach on three occasions and have enjoyed each visit. He is young, cocky (a good thing) and is very open. I am most familiar with his little sister who I know very well. Also know his mother and father. All are very nice people. His little sister has nothing but good things to say about her older brother. (On a side note, he doesn’t hate every thing msu)

I think there is no coach more dedicated to his team and winning then coach H. While he doesn’t have a ton of experience I see a huge upside to him and hope he is our head coach for years to come. Any of you cats who profess a strong dislike for him would not feel that way after spending an hour or two with him.

The rivalry is not more heated today than in the 80's and 90's. Or even the 50's and 60's for that matter. I've heard many stories from years gone by. The big difference now is the internet allows us greater access to each other. I might post 20 times here in a week. Before message boards, I would not have had 20 conversations with bobcat fans about football in week.

Communication is very difficult when we can’t hear the tone, inflection and see body language. I might type some thing that I think is funny or clever and with out hearing the words and see my body language, someone gets up in arms over it. Everybody who knows me enjoys my company and sense of humor. Even my cat friends. Most know my sign on and we’ve had many laughs over the postings here, on EGRIZ and on other web sites.

elkmcc · Post by **elkmcc** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:38 pm

1.) BH might come off a little to strong to bobcat fans but BH was born a Griz and has had all his life to learn, appreciate, and understand the Griz/cat rivalry. Kramer or Glenn can't say the same. I don't agree with a lot of BH's philosophy but I firmly believe he is deserving of peoples respect. If there is anything that raises my ire it is the lack of respect that cat fans show towards the Griz coach.

2.) I am glad bobcat fans are proud of their football team. They should be proud of the strides the program has made in the last few years. Sarcasm and witty remarks by both UM and MSU fans is part of what makes these message boards fun. Many cat fans are so used to being disrespected that they don't recognize compliments when they are given.

3.) The dissing of the Griz by cat fans ie: friz, dUMb, etc is done by virtually all of the the cat posters is disrespectful and does nothing more than fuel the fire. This subject has been argued to death, see:
http://www.bobcatnation.com/bobcatboard ... 293&start0 Admittedly this is also done by Griz fans but for cats that are looking for respect dropping the Griz dissing would go a long way. Just MHO.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:00 pm

elkmcc wrote:1.) BH might come off a little to strong to bobcat fans but BH was born a Griz and has had all his life to learn, appreciate, and understand the Griz/cat rivalry. Kramer or Glenn can't say the same. I don't agree with a lot of BH's philosophy but I firmly believe he is deserving of peoples respect. If there is anything that raises my ire it is the lack of respect that cat fans show towards the Griz coach.

2.) I am glad bobcat fans are proud of their football team. They should be proud of the strides the program has made in the last few years. Sarcasm and witty remarks by both UM and MSU fans is part of what makes these message boards fun. Many cat fans are so used to being disrespected that they don't recognize compliments when they are given.

3.) The dissing of the Griz by cat fans ie: friz, dUMb, etc is done by virtually all of the the cat posters is disrespectful and does nothing more than fuel the fire. This subject has been argued to death, see:
http://www.bobcatnation.com/bobcatboard ... 293&start0 Admittedly this is also done by Griz fans but for cats that are looking for respect dropping the Griz dissing would go a long way. Just MHO.

Fair enough, and good response.

If there is anything that raises my ire it is the lack of respect that cat fans show towards the Griz coach.

And vice versa. I would still tend to think that the coach should be the one to show respect first, before asking fans to do the same.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:01 pm

elkmcc wrote:1.) BH might come off a little to strong to bobcat fans but BH was born a Griz and has had all his life to learn, appreciate, and understand the Griz/cat rivalry. Kramer or Glenn can't say the same. I don't agree with a lot of BH's philosophy but I firmly believe he is deserving of peoples respect. If there is anything that raises my ire it is the lack of respect that cat fans show towards the Griz coach...

elk, I know we're all trying to make nice here, but I can't just let this slide, no offense to you personally but you essentially "forgive" BH for HIS attitude (SOME would call it disrespect) toward MSU & the Bobcats and then you state that OUR subsequent lack of respect for BH raises you ire?

I'm sorry, but you can't have it both ways. Whether a significant # of you griz fans will admit it or not, a # of us Bobcat fans have seen & heard enough stories over the years that we have interpreted as disrespect from Hauck. Honestly answer this question: Did Cat fans feel this way about Glenn? Or Dennehy? Or Read? Or even Donovan? Personally, I didn't. I didn't care for Glenn's handling of a few specific issues (Joey Thomas, the Cats breaking the Streak on his watch, the way he gave his team the finger when he left town), but I never got the feeling that he disrespected the Cats and I know that I respected his abilities as a coach. As a matter of fact, I remember stories of several Cat/Griz events where Kramer & Glenn "whooped it up" together. I really can't see that happening between Kramer & Hauck and I'm pretty sure KRAMER hasn't changed.

Referring back to my comments above, from my perspective, the PERCEIVED disrespect came FIRST FROM HAUCK TOWARD MSU & THE BOBCATS, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. I submit my comments about Hauck's predecessors as evidence/proof. Cat fans, what do you think? Did you feel the same way about Glenn, Dennehy, Read, etc that you feel about Hauck?

elk, I honestly don't intend this as an attack on you personally; I just think that some of you griz fans put the blinders on regarding Hauck and refuse to see the obvious: Bobby hates MSU and the Bobcats; as you stated, he has for his whole life & now that he is in a high profile position, that hatred has had a lot of unintended consequences.

elkmcc · Post by **elkmcc** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:24 pm

Gato you have a point about the other Griz coaches but other than Mick (who was just a nice guy), the others were never raised to be a Griz.

I guess I just fail to see how BH's reference to MSU as "State" is disrespectful. I see John L. Smith refer to his team as "State" over and over again. I hear cheerleaders chant "Go State". I could go on and on but I think you get my point. I can only imagine that BH has much juicier metaphors for the bobcats but doesn't use them in public.

Anyway guys, I am all for everyone getting the respect they deserve and giving the respect the other guys have justly earned.

And I still believe that the Montana schools should always be 1 & 2 in the BSC. And that really makes me proud of Montana.

Eastcoastgriz · Post by **Eastcoastgriz** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:30 pm

El_Gato wrote: a # of us Bobcat fans have seen & heard enough stories over the years that we have interpreted as disrespect from Hauck.

What I find interesting is the number of cat fans that interpreted comments being disrespectful from our coach. BAC started a thread on this exact subject a month or two ago and no one could provide any real substance of disrespect. And while his PR skills were a little lacking at first, not one cat fan could point to any comment made in the past 18 months.

I feel Hink hit the nail on the head when he stated "There is a segment of Bobcat fans out there that has an irrational hatred of Bobby Hauck, and I felt they deserved to be called out for it." When I was in Missoula for Homecoming I had conversations with several GRIZ fans that felt the same way.

Platinumcat · Post by **Platinumcat** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:49 am

Eastcoastgriz wrote:
El_Gato wrote: a # of us Bobcat fans have seen & heard enough stories over the years that we have interpreted as disrespect from Hauck.
What I find interesting is the number of cat fans that interpreted comments being disrespectful from our coach. BAC started a thread on this exact subject a month or two ago and no one could provide any real substance of disrespect. And while his PR skills were a little lacking at first, not one cat fan could point to any comment made in the past 18 months.

I feel Hink hit the nail on the head when he stated "There is a segment of Bobcat fans out there that has an irrational hatred of Bobby Hauck, and I felt they deserved to be called out for it." When I was in Missoula for Homecoming I had conversations with several GRIZ fans that felt the same way.

Perhaps this makes me a poor arguer, but my wife constantly will ask me to give her specific examples of something we may be discussing. Which I usually respond that I don't take daily notes of activities and can't provide such list.
To me, it seems odd that such an overwhelming population of Bobcat fans (from casual to fanatic) have gotten the same feeling from Coach Hauck. I know it irritated me in the Cat/Griz post game interview two years ago when he wouldn't say Montana State (noone including the cheerleaders ever says just "state"). Also, in that same interview, it also bothered me that he didn't give any credit to the Bobcat players for playing a hard fought victory. His take was that the only reason we won was they messed up so much. I just feel that a person's true personality comes out in challenging times. And, I can't say as I was impressed with his.

Admittedly, these are not hard core, written-in-text facts. Perhaps I need to spend more time looking through old newspaper articles. But, again, how does so many people get the same vibe if it's not true?

One last thought: when I was in high school, Dennehey was the coach. I would have loved to play for him. I thought that Glenn was a good guy too (until he left in such a sour way).

theblackgecko · Post by **theblackgecko** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:05 pm

1.) While Bobcat fans hate Hauck for his comments, Kramer isn't known for being diplomatic. It seems quite hypocrtical to dislike Bobby for his quotes when Kramer is loved by the media for Kramer quotes. I'll give Hauck credit for being somewhat of a diplomat (not at the level of Glenn or Selving). I also give Hauck credit for recruiting heavily on the in-state players. I think Hauck's conservative playcalling kept the Griz from having a chance to comeback against PSU / JMU last year.
On the whole, I'd give Hauck massive credit for being a true Grizzly. Hauck isn't the sort of guy who is going to be looking for a better job when he should be coaching the team in the playoffs, and he'll be man enough to tell his players in person when he leaves.

2.) See 'Cat fans on other boards. However, it does keep us all in line, knowing that plenty of other teams have fans that will keep our in line. Just be willing to eat crow after predicting doom and gloom in Grizzlyland.

3.) The major problem is have is that a lot of people in Bozeman, at Bobcat games, etc. seem more ready to bust on the Griz than support the 'Cats. I've heard from players that they are sick and tired of all the attention focused on the Griz by the so-called 'Cats. If someone wants to boo the score when the Griz are winning, whatver. However, if that person won't make noise when the 'Cats are on defense and it's third down, then that person has no proper business calling themselves a Bobcat fan.
Of course, I'd rather just go to games and have a good time. I've got respect for any true fan, regardless of which team's colors they paint themselves with.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:40 pm

To put is short and simple. First impressions pretty much make 90% of what you see in someone you meet. And I didn't have a very good first impression of Hauck (nor do I now). Yes there were some of the remarks that some of us have pointed out on here, but something with him just rubs me the wrong way. I would like to say it is just die hard Cat/Griz rivalry beliefs that make me feel that way towards him, but then why did I like and respect Papa Bear and Glenn then? I can't put a main reason on it, but I just do not respect or seem to like the guy. Maybe it is a lot of the short man syndrome cockiness he has I don't know. He just rubs me the wrong way (maybe same way Kramer bugs the Griz fans with his Kramerisms

).

Hell's Bells · Post by **Hell's Bells** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:45 pm

elkmcc wrote:Gato you have a point about the other Griz coaches but other than Mick (who was just a nice guy), the others were never raised to be a Griz.

I guess I just fail to see how BH's reference to MSU as "State" is disrespectful. I see John L. Smith refer to his team as "State" over and over again. I hear cheerleaders chant "Go State". I could go on and on but I think you get my point. I can only imagine that BH has much juicier metaphors for the bobcats but doesn't use them in public.

Anyway guys, I am all for everyone getting the respect they deserve and giving the respect the other guys have justly earned.

And I still believe that the Montana schools should always be 1 & 2 in the BSC. And that really makes me proud of Montana.

because - well i am paraphraseing a bit here but - as BH put it "the cats should not have montana in their name because they dont deserve it"

seataccat · Post by **seataccat** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:39 pm

I really think most everyone on this board underestimates bobby hauck. How is this for a theory? When Phenicie brought in Jason Washington from Bowling Green he was touted as a great QB which he obviously is not. Hauck realized this right off the bat but new he could not get away with starting the freshman CB ahead of Washington because of all the alumni, fan and media pressure to go with the great 1-A transfer that believed he would be the next Craig Ochs. During the non-league part of the schedule he showed just how bad the griz would be with him starting. This got the media, alumni and fans off his back and he got the QB that he wanted just before league play started. I don’t think Washington’s separated shoulder is a season ending injury but mark my word he will not start another game as long as CB is healthy. CB is a good QB and Bobby Hauck is not stupid.

Just a thought, I am not really sure who brought in Washington From Bowling Green but I’ll be it was Phenicie.

Post by **kmax** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:47 pm

seataccat wrote:I really think most everyone on this board underestimates bobby hauck. How is this for a theory? When Phenicie brought in Jason Washington from Bowling Green he was touted as a great QB which he obviously is not. Hauck realized this right off the bat but new he could not get away with starting the freshman CB ahead of Washington because of all the alumni, fan and media pressure to go with the great 1-A transfer that believed he would be the next Craig Ochs. During the non-league part of the schedule he showed just how bad the griz would be with him starting. This got the media, alumni and fans off his back and he got the QB that he wanted just before league play started. I don’t think Washington’s separated shoulder is a season ending injury but mark my word he will not start another game as long as CB is healthy. CB is a good QB and Bobby Hauck is not stupid.

Just a thought, I am not really sure who brought in Washington From Bowling Green but I’ll be it was Phenicie.

In listening to Griz fans and reading the media I don't think there was anyone after training camp that would have been upset had CB started ahead of Washington. There were plenty of Griz fans saying they would back Washington because he was the starter that the coaches picked, but I honestly don't remember any saying that it had to be Washington just because he was a I-A transfer.

Question for visiting Griz fans

Question for visiting Griz fans

Re: Question for visiting Griz fans