Recruiting Montana High School Players
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- BobcatNation Letterman
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Recruiting Montana High School Players
As a Griz fan, it is rather obvious that the "popular" opinion in Grizland is that Hauck is able to get virtually any Montana high school kid he wants, and the Cats are left with the left-overs.
As Cat fans, do you agree with their assessment?
As Cat fans, do you agree with their assessment?
- El_Gato
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First of all, wolf, I'll mildly disagree with your comment; you should say that the GRIZ are able to get virtually any Montana kid they want...
I think WaGriz, the gameday experience, and the overall Griz football "tradition" bring in far more Montana kids than any single coach, including Hauck. Let's face it, for the past 15 years, they've dominated the headlines and airwaves across our state, "indoctrinating" countless youngsters to the excitement & success of Griz football.
Even were I to grant that Bobby is a solid recruiter, I still contend that the OTHER factors attract and bring in more "local" kids than he does. Look at it this way: The MT kids who have come into the program under Hauck have 2, maybe 3 years experience with him but they have 15+ years hearing/seeing/experiencing Grizzly football.
I've said it many times before; given the success of the 2 programs over the past decade+ and the significant difference in our stadiums and our gameday atmospheres, I'm quite impressed that MSU has managed to get as many MT kids as we have and that a number of them end up being very solid football players, not just "left-overs". I'm pretty sure the likes of Adam Cordiero, Kane Ioane, Mac Mollohan and others would've found their way onto the field for the Griz just as they did/have for the Cats.
Getting a kid like Brandon Hoffenbacker says a lot for the program as well; I think if Kramer & Hauck both signed 3 year contracts today, the "battle" over MT recruits would continue to tighten, just as it has over the past 3 years or so, especially if the Cats can take the next step in stadium improvements and continue to enhance our gameday atmosphere.
But above all else, winning is a far better recruiter than any single coach could ever hope to be.
I think WaGriz, the gameday experience, and the overall Griz football "tradition" bring in far more Montana kids than any single coach, including Hauck. Let's face it, for the past 15 years, they've dominated the headlines and airwaves across our state, "indoctrinating" countless youngsters to the excitement & success of Griz football.
Even were I to grant that Bobby is a solid recruiter, I still contend that the OTHER factors attract and bring in more "local" kids than he does. Look at it this way: The MT kids who have come into the program under Hauck have 2, maybe 3 years experience with him but they have 15+ years hearing/seeing/experiencing Grizzly football.
I've said it many times before; given the success of the 2 programs over the past decade+ and the significant difference in our stadiums and our gameday atmospheres, I'm quite impressed that MSU has managed to get as many MT kids as we have and that a number of them end up being very solid football players, not just "left-overs". I'm pretty sure the likes of Adam Cordiero, Kane Ioane, Mac Mollohan and others would've found their way onto the field for the Griz just as they did/have for the Cats.
Getting a kid like Brandon Hoffenbacker says a lot for the program as well; I think if Kramer & Hauck both signed 3 year contracts today, the "battle" over MT recruits would continue to tighten, just as it has over the past 3 years or so, especially if the Cats can take the next step in stadium improvements and continue to enhance our gameday atmosphere.
But above all else, winning is a far better recruiter than any single coach could ever hope to be.
Grizzlies: 2-5 when it matters most
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- torrybruce
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Plus I think Hauck is wearing out his welcome in Griz land. He is not the most well liked by the Griz Faithful. They still support him because they are just that Griz Faithful, but still we have a lot to do when it comes to the experience offered. I think if a recruit were to sit down in a room with Hauck and Kramer a kid would choose Kramer because he just cares about the students...it's the UM experience that is the sell, not Bobby Chauck!!
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I personally can't attest to what Hauck is like in the recruiting process. Or the PR game with the Griz boosters.
But, I do know what Kramer is like. The Big Human's energy is infectious. When you spend even a little time around him, you find yourself ready to move worlds in order to help Kramer and the program.
But, I do know what Kramer is like. The Big Human's energy is infectious. When you spend even a little time around him, you find yourself ready to move worlds in order to help Kramer and the program.
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I can not disagree with what you're saying. You know, as in life, people have to be able to sell themselves, before they can sell their product. High school kids and their parents will evaluate the coach first, before the program.
This is where I think Kramer is making headway against Hauck in-state. Joe Glenn was a different story. He was one of the most likeable, regular guys you could want. I'm sure the parents loved this guy when he sat in their living room. The prospect of having your kid mentored by a guy like Glenn would have to be appealing. However, Hauck has the personality of a wet rag. He is secretive, guarded, and does not make anyone feel comfortable when talking with them. I guess the word "uptight" would accurately describe him.
I have a hard time understanding how Bobby can be such a great recruiter with his personality. Just doesn't make sense to me. Kramer, on the other hand, could get a nun fired up to give communion.
I just wondered if you, as Cat fans, buy into the fact that UM is able to get almost any Montana high school kid they want, and leave MSU with the crums.
By the way, I heard that Ioane wanted to go to UM, but was not offered by Glenn. Is that true?
This is where I think Kramer is making headway against Hauck in-state. Joe Glenn was a different story. He was one of the most likeable, regular guys you could want. I'm sure the parents loved this guy when he sat in their living room. The prospect of having your kid mentored by a guy like Glenn would have to be appealing. However, Hauck has the personality of a wet rag. He is secretive, guarded, and does not make anyone feel comfortable when talking with them. I guess the word "uptight" would accurately describe him.
I have a hard time understanding how Bobby can be such a great recruiter with his personality. Just doesn't make sense to me. Kramer, on the other hand, could get a nun fired up to give communion.
I just wondered if you, as Cat fans, buy into the fact that UM is able to get almost any Montana high school kid they want, and leave MSU with the crums.
By the way, I heard that Ioane wanted to go to UM, but was not offered by Glenn. Is that true?
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- Golden Bobcat
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The griz out recruited us for years but that started to change in the 2001-2002 timeframe. Now I would put the percentages at 50/50. It is also true that they don't always go after the same kids. There are some MT high school players that either Hauck or Kramer (but not both) don't think can play at this level. The biggest losses (to the griz) that I can remember (and that I new the Cats wanted bad) were Murphy, Hilliard and Carlson).
On the other hand the concensus top pick out of Montana the last three years has become a Cat (Goodman 03, Ophus 04 and Hoffenbacker 05). These picks did not work out (Hoff yet to be determined) but they were the best players from the state.
On the other hand the concensus top pick out of Montana the last three years has become a Cat (Goodman 03, Ophus 04 and Hoffenbacker 05). These picks did not work out (Hoff yet to be determined) but they were the best players from the state.
Gary Tapp
Graduated MSU 1981
Hamilton High School
Minneapolis, MN
Graduated MSU 1981
Hamilton High School
Minneapolis, MN
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So who cares more about the students, Hauck or Krammer?torrybruce wrote:Plus I think Hauck is wearing out his welcome in Griz land. He is not the most well liked by the Griz Faithful. They still support him because they are just that Griz Faithful, but still we have a lot to do when it comes to the experience offered. I think if a recruit were to sit down in a room with Hauck and Kramer a kid would choose Kramer because he just cares about the students...it's the UM experience that is the sell, not Bobby Chauck!!
Krammer doesnt care about football just about the students??
The GRIZ, a quarter century of total football dominance over the cats.
- JahGriz
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- Down With the Foe!
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- BozoneCat
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Agreed. I don't think we have come all the way to a 50-50 split, although we certainly have closed the gap over the last half-decade. How far, I don't know. It certainly isn't correct for griz fans to say that they get everyone they want and we get the scraps, that just plain is not true. They do get more kids than not, though.Down With the Foe! wrote:Let's talk starters and impact players over the last 3 clases:
Bobby Vs. The Large Bald guy.
50/50????
fellas, c'mon now.
Kramer has a much tougher sell with all things being equal. I ask myself, if I was a kid with absolutely no bias one way or another (education, family, etc.), where would I go? Face the facts, just about every 18-year-old kid would want to play in Washington-grizzly over Bobcat Stadium. It is as simple as that.
Personally, and I'm biased, I think MSU has a lot of things going for it that push it way over the top of what UM can offer. I just don't think many 17 and 18 y/o's have the maturity to really take those things into consideration. I wouldn't have when I was that age. I would have wanted to play in front of that crowd in that stadium. School would have been a distant afterthought.
This is why it is imperative for MSU to get the ball rolling with the stadium project. And not just adding more boxes for all the rich folks, but enclosing the endzone and giving us a true big-time college atmosphere. That, and only that, is what will bring us onto a level playing field in recruiting against the grizzlies.
- BozoneCat
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I think there is enough momentum that it wouldn't matter if we go 6-5 again this year - it will be built regardless. In fact, if we did finish at 6-5 again, I think that would only fuel the fire to get it built in more of a hurry. You'll be hearing word out of MSU in the near, near future concerning the stadium expansion.
- Down With the Foe!
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And if my cow had balls, she'd be a bull.Wolfman wrote:All I know is, it is a good thing that Kramer does not have the luxury of the Griz stadium, tradition, and fan base in his pocket while recruiting! If the roles were reversed, and Kramer was recruiting for the Griz and Hauck for the Cats, Bobby would never get a kid who Kramer wanted.
Your point is?
(it's a rhetorical question, no answer really required)
They have come a long ways....just not 50/50.
Boooooo Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa - Go Griz!
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Having gone thorugh the recruiting process recently, not I, but a family member. I can tell you that Hauck was very personable and the complete opposite of wolfman's description. We found him very friendly and engaging. Far Far from a "wet rag".
We also found Kramer to be very personable, however not as engaging as Kramer. My thought were that both coaches are great people with great people skills.
While my son is either a cat nor a griz because he choose baseball over football. His comments to me were that he would have followed Hauck to whatever school he was coaching if he had persued football.
I am not writing this to slam Kramer or the cats whatsoever, I just thought I would give you alittle insight to the recruiting trail.
We also found Kramer to be very personable, however not as engaging as Kramer. My thought were that both coaches are great people with great people skills.
While my son is either a cat nor a griz because he choose baseball over football. His comments to me were that he would have followed Hauck to whatever school he was coaching if he had persued football.
I am not writing this to slam Kramer or the cats whatsoever, I just thought I would give you alittle insight to the recruiting trail.
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- Golden Bobcat
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Are we talking Montana recruits or overall recruits? As far as MT recruits I would guess it is about 50/50. The reason it is so hard to tell is that the griz and Cat coaches always downplay it when a recruit picks the other school. If Reggie Bush went to the griz instead of the Cats Kramer would say "we were not that high on him (too small). And Hauck has proven to be the same way.
As far as overall recruting the edge has to go to Kramer. I think we have had many more 1st team, 2nd team and HM selctions the last few years (have to double check this one). I wish more of our top players were from MT but winning will help that.
One concern I have is that having a larger (better looking) stadium will help but that help will be minimized if it is not full. HS players don't pick the griz because the stadium is larger. They pick um because the stadium is full and thus the expereince is great.
As far as overall recruting the edge has to go to Kramer. I think we have had many more 1st team, 2nd team and HM selctions the last few years (have to double check this one). I wish more of our top players were from MT but winning will help that.
One concern I have is that having a larger (better looking) stadium will help but that help will be minimized if it is not full. HS players don't pick the griz because the stadium is larger. They pick um because the stadium is full and thus the expereince is great.
Gary Tapp
Graduated MSU 1981
Hamilton High School
Minneapolis, MN
Graduated MSU 1981
Hamilton High School
Minneapolis, MN
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- Golden Bobcat
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I can give you another interesting recruiting story about Dan Carpenter. He had offers from both schools, but was waiting to here from a D-1 school (he was hoping for BSU). Kramer became frustrated with the process and gave him an ultimatum to decide right on the spot. He was not ready to decide so he declined to commit to the Cats. The next day Kramer offered Bolton at GFH. Dan was leaning toward the Cats but Kramer gets very frustrated with recruits who are considering the griz. He has pulled many offers from recruits who were interested in the griz but non-committal.
Gary Tapp
Graduated MSU 1981
Hamilton High School
Minneapolis, MN
Graduated MSU 1981
Hamilton High School
Minneapolis, MN
- BozoneCat
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I still disagree that MSU is getting 50% of the Montana recruits that both schools are actively recruiting. I don't think we can realistically hope to do any better than 50/50, but I don't think we are there yet.gtapp wrote:Are we talking Montana recruits or overall recruits? As far as MT recruits I would guess it is about 50/50. The reason it is so hard to tell is that the griz and Cat coaches always downplay it when a recruit picks the other school. If Reggie Bush went to the griz instead of the Cats Kramer would say "we were not that high on him (too small). And Hauck has proven to be the same way.
I agree that a large, nice, empty stadium does nothing to bring in recruits. But, I don't see our stadium being empty. I think that the best way to draw new fans from the many out-of-state transplants is to build a professional, big-time college football stadium. This will help to change the perception that MSU plays inferior football, and I have talked to many folks who have that perception upon moving up here.gtapp wrote:One concern I have is that having a larger (better looking) stadium will help but that help will be minimized if it is not full. HS players don't pick the griz because the stadium is larger. They pick um because the stadium is full and thus the expereince is great.
If (and when) we do proceed with the stadium expansion, we need to consider that we will have that many more seats to fill. We need to proactively think about how we are going to attract new fans to fill those seats so that the atmosphere continues to improve. I think the best way is to build the stadium so that the game itself has a big-time college football "feel" to it, as it does here in Missoula. The rest of the pieces will fall in place from there.