Hyptothetical Assessment of the program and its direction =]

CelticCat · Post by **CelticCat** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:54 pm

Now that the dust has settle after Saturdays fiasco, and everyone (hopefully) is level-headed again, I want to discuss the direction of this program and determine what is and isn't acceptable anymore.

Hypothetical situation which I bring into question:

If the Cats finish 6-5, win the autobid and lost their first playoff game on the road, are we as fans content with this performance?

When do we get tired of 6-5 seasons and start to hunger for something more? I love Kramer to death, but if this situation happens again this year, I will start to question his ability as a coach to lead us into that upper echelon of elite schools in IAA football. He is the best thing to happen to Bobcat football since 84', but if he can't get us a home playoff game, or more improtantly, a playoff win with Travis Lulay, when will he be able to?

Question : has Kramer become a victim of his own sucess?

NOTE : I do not believe this will happen this year. I think we will only lost at most 4 games and hopefully we can get a home playoff game, or at least a winnable road game. This is purely hypothetical and it has been on my mind for the last year or so, and I know I am not alone in these sentiments.

If not this year, when?

Helcat72 · Post by **Helcat72** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:03 pm

Unfortunately I think this year is one where there are too many exceptional teams to get through. If we had this team last year we would have a much better chance...it just seems like everyone is good this year. Kramer just picked a bad year to be good!

tetoncat · Post by **tetoncat** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:08 pm

But it also appears there is no dominant team based on the number of losses at the top of the "polls". Maybe there are a lot of even teams who will play good on given days. Lets not write off the cats because of one loss just like we should not make too much out of other teams because of a couple of wins. Coastal Carolina had a great win then lost last weekend. NDSU had a big win then followed it up with a win at home but Weber is not a top tier team so what does that win really show.

WYCAT · Post by **WYCAT** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:20 pm

Great question Celtic Cat and I think the answer is what had so many of us upset after the loss. This is the season we really expected to take the next step. Not hoped to but expected to. We have a senior stud QB, qaulity skill players and an offense that was finally working the last 1/2 of the year before. We have 4 of 7 conference games at home and a pre-season schedule that after 2 weeks showed we weren't wrong in our confidence. I for one, will not be happy with 6-5 and an early exit from the playoffs again because I think this team has the talent to do much more and next year is shaping up to be a bit of a reloading year (ala the griz this season).

I agree Kramer has done a wonderful job rebuilding the programs fan base, $$$ support, and excitement but at some point wins do matter more than all of that. I hope to hell we get back on track and that starts this week. 2-2 with this OOC schedule is acceptable; 1-3 is not.

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:23 pm

I think the sound I hear is people jumping off the band wagon and it is loud. Which is to bad.

The Program is improved so much and it's expected to win. You play top teams and will lose some. You can always play Fort Lewis' and Southern Utahs and win most games. But why.

We have beat the Griz 2 of 3 years and I would expect they will beat them this year.

Just wonder how much sound it will be when people start climbing back on during the BSC season.

When ever there is a lose, the sky will not be falling and Baily is not at fault for everything.

I would suggest staying on the band wagon and enjoy the ride.

This team is a VERY GOOD team this year and solid for the future. The coaching staff has done an excellent job in bringing MSU back to where it should be, the upper half of the BSC with the stands totally full (try and find a seat this weekend).

The stadium will be made into a horseshoe soon and possible 4-5 years DIV-1A. Remember, once you jump off, you shouldn't try and climb back on without saying you shouldn't have jumped off in the first place.

WYCAT · Post by **WYCAT** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:29 pm

You didn't answer his question though. Would you be happy with 6-5 again this season?

Post by **kmax** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:32 pm

WYCAT wrote:You didn't answer his question though. Would you be happy with 6-5 again this season?

In a word, NO. Not with the talent on this team.

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:33 pm

WYCAT wrote:You didn't answer his question though. Would you be happy with 6-5 again this season?

I would be happy with a 7-4 or better. That would mean losing two more.

I would still enjoy the season at 6-5, but be somewhat disappointed.

I would be very happy with a 10-4 season.

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:34 pm

Honestly? OK...

Krames can stay in Bozo as long he wants as far as I'm concerned.

Same goes for Pete.

Same does not go for Bailey. I wonder if he's believing that his players can literally grasp what he is trying to teach them. I'm not saying the kids don't have the mental capacity - I'm saying the delivery might leave much to desire. Every year, it looks like the new guys are learning his system for at least half the season. Ya can't win championships that way.

6-5 would be a disappointment, mainly because I think our 2-deep is as good as anyone's in the country.

The rest of MSU Athletics is kickin' ass...I've even softened on Mick!

Post by **rtb** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:34 pm

I don't think anyone who visits this site can be accused of jumping off the bandwagon. There are a lot of die hard fans who stick with this team through ups and downs who are just frustrated with such an ugly loss. This is not a time to be calling people out for "jumping off the band wagon".

We all need to and I am sure we all do support the Bobcats 100% and can't wait for Saturday. However when you get beat this badly it is fair to step back and analyze the direction of the program to determine if we as fans like the direction it is going.

The Bobcat Bandwagon can still support a lot more fans so if you aren't on it....get on it!

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:41 pm

rtb wrote:I don't think anyone who visits this site can be accused of jumping off the bandwagon. There are a lot of die hard fans who stick with this team through ups and downs who are just frustrated with such an ugly loss. This is not a time to be calling people out for "jumping off the band wagon".

We all need to and I am sure we all do support the Bobcats 100% and can't wait for Saturday. However when you get beat this badly it is fair to step back and analyze the direction of the program to determine if we as fans like the direction it is going.

The Bobcat Bandwagon can still support a lot more fans so if you aren't on it....get on it!

My point is one game is one game, no matter how BAD.
You don't reassess the entire direction of a program because of one loss (especially if it's a preleague loss and not to the Griz).

The coaches and players care as much or more about that loss as we do. But they need to get it behind them. Learn the lessons and move on.

This team is going to be successful. Just don't think reassessing the entire direction of a program because of one loss makes sense.

(As you can tell, I am still on the bandwagon and will remain there no matter what the final record is!!)

Post by **kmax** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:43 pm

rtb wrote:I don't think anyone who visits this site can be accused of jumping off the bandwagon. There are a lot of die hard fans who stick with this team through ups and downs who are just frustrated with such an ugly loss. This is not a time to be calling people out for "jumping off the band wagon".

We all need to and I am sure we all do support the Bobcats 100% and can't wait for Saturday. However when you get beat this badly it is fair to step back and analyze the direction of the program to determine if we as fans like the direction it is going.

The Bobcat Bandwagon can still support a lot more fans so if you aren't on it....get on it!

Agree, I don't think people were jumping off the bandwagon...but there is no question that alot of doubt crept into the minds of people who had little before the weekend.

I will always be a Bobcat fan and supporter, regardless of the record they put up or how things go on the field. However, with that in mind I still stand by my statement that 6-5 will not be "good enough" this season, barring significant injuries or other catastrophy that would change the makeup of this team.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:44 pm

The Griz got creamed last year down at Sam Houston and still went to the National Championship game. We have new receivers on this team so we will probably be inconsistent a little bit for a while. Having Gatewood back on this team will hopefully really help. We just need to tackle better this next game and I think we will be fine. It's going to be a good game. From those of you that watched that game on Saturday .. WE ARE NOT THAT BAD. I think we got down from that first turnover and started pressing/got tight as the game went on and then that 2nd one just killed us. We are starting 0-0 this next game and these kids just need to RELAX this weekend and go out and have fun. This is a big game, but if they don't relax/enjoy playing the game they will again be tight this week etc. We need to make as much noise as possible (Both sides of the stadium this week) and make it very hard on the NDSU QB to call audibles at the line. From the sounds of it they run the ball and also run short quick passing game. So there will definately be some audibling going on at the line. I really think the 3-4 this week will help us defend if they are truly a 3-4 short passing team. We should have a lot of bodies in space out there. We need the front DL to really have a good game/push and our quick guys will take care of the rest.

It's going to be a great game.

Post by **kmax** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:45 pm

A great game indeed Cardiac, can't wait for it!

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:53 pm

The NDSU game should be fun.

In the Poly game, Lulay was without two of his three wideouts (Miller and Gatewood) and we are a passing team. That will make a HUGE difference this week.

I don't think NDSU is going to take this lightly and there will be a couple of unhappy bobcat players that want to show last week was not really this team.

It should be a great week!!

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:23 pm

Found this on the Chargers site and thought it sounded kind of familiar

I had to put up with teams blitzing the H*ll out of my teams 2 days in row

Or, in the words of the other tackle, Shane Olivea, they "stunk it up outside of one drive" in the second half.

"We want to be a dominant line and a line that people fear," Olivea said. "We made too many mistakes, and Drew was on the floor too many times. We'll be the first to say that was our fault.

"We played as bad as we've (played) since I've been here as a unit (in the second half). . . . It's pretty depressing."

None of the linemen had an explanation, especially without seeing game film. But none made excuses, either. They said they expected Denver to blitz, just as Dallas had during last week's season-opening loss.

"We practiced for everything we thought they were going to do," Oben said. "Obviously once the game starts you get 60 minutes to get it done and we just didn't get it done in certain crucial areas against a good football team on the road."

They'll have to get it figured out quickly. As Tomlinson said, "We're going to continue to see that (pressure). Until you show people you can block it, you're going to see it every week."

********************

This just goes to show you that any team (especially football) can have a bad game. It all starts up front on the OL/DL. If we don't win the battles there, we aren't going to have a very good shot at winning the game. Denver completely controlled the 2nd half against a VERY GOOD SD offensive team. So from Tomlinson's words above, until we can stop it, or beat them with big plays .. we are going to see it nonstop in my opinion.

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:29 pm

I don't see anything wrong with the program. Yeah, the score looked bad but we gave them three touches, for crying out loud

We did what we do, and no, you don't abandon the 3-4 just because you're playing an option team. It's over and done with and time to look forward to playing NDSU. We just have another opportunity to slap a top ten team around

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:30 pm

I wonder if Domineck can play tight end?

CelticCat · Post by **CelticCat** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:40 pm

I didn't want this to turn into what a fan should be type discussion. You guys are putting too much important on the Cal Poly game. Consider it a breaking point for me, because this isn't the first letdown game we've gone through.

And remember I made this entire discussion hypothetical, and I even reassured everyone at the end of my initial post that I do think we will finish 7-4 at worst.

This is a discussion that has nothing to do with Cal Poly, though it may be the game that triggered me to speak up on this issue.

I just want to know if we finish with 5 losses in the regular season for the 4th straight year, and get no further than the 1st round in the playoffs (or miss them like last year), do you think changes need to be made, or do you think Kramer and Co will be able to build from that hypothetical situation?

Wolfman · Post by **Wolfman** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:54 pm

The poster who pointed out that the Griz were embarrassed by Sam Houston last year, then went to the NC game, is right on the money. Look there are certain games in which everything seems to go bad. Lulay gave up 14 points without Cal Poly having to run a play. That is very difficult to overcome, especially on the road.

It also changes your game plan when you are forced to play catch-up football.

I think that the Cats will still be a formidible team in the chase for the Big Sky Crowne. The Griz are down this year, so the Cats need to take advantage of this fact and play some football. Your big test will be the EWU game. If the Cats can somehow win that game, they will be in the drivers seat.