Tailgate MIP/assault disc. -- Split from Atmosphere thread

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:14 pm

barechestcat wrote:bozone,
This must have taken place on the student side of tailgating. The law enforcement is rarely seen on the booster side.

Speaking of which, did any of you guys see the 5 cops taking down that one guy in the student side of tailgating? I have no idea what he did or what he was on, but they were having a heck of a time cuffing him. They were struggling with the guy for nearly 5 minutes. It was some pretty good pre-game entertainment! Maybe he was upset that he didn’t get a bratwurst at Kmax’s tailgate?

Post by **kmax** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:17 pm

mquast53000 wrote:
barechestcat wrote:bozone,
This must have taken place on the student side of tailgating. The law enforcement is rarely seen on the booster side.
Speaking of which, did any of you guys see the 5 cops taking down that one guy in the student side of tailgating? I have no idea what he did or what he was on, but they were having a heck of a time cuffing him. They were struggling with the guy for nearly 5 minutes. It was some pretty good pre-game entertainment! Maybe he was upset that he didn’t get a bratwurst at Kmax’s tailgate?

Must have been El Gato raging cause he was too blind to find the tailgate.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:20 pm

I hadn't even had any alcohol yet!! My vision gets blurrier the "dryer" I get!

orsalak · Post by **orsalak** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:05 pm

mquast53000 wrote: Speaking of which, did any of you guys see the 5 cops taking down that one guy in the student side of tailgating? I have no idea what he did or what he was on, but they were having a heck of a time cuffing him. They were struggling with the guy for nearly 5 minutes. It was some pretty good pre-game entertainment! Maybe he was upset that he didn’t get a bratwurst at Kmax’s tailgate?

I heard about this kid on the news here in Bozeman tonight. I guess he is spending the night in jail because he busted up a cops head. The cop needed staples to close the gash. I guess they were on him for a MIP.

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:02 am

orsalak wrote:
mquast53000 wrote: Speaking of which, did any of you guys see the 5 cops taking down that one guy in the student side of tailgating? I have no idea what he did or what he was on, but they were having a heck of a time cuffing him. They were struggling with the guy for nearly 5 minutes. It was some pretty good pre-game entertainment! Maybe he was upset that he didn’t get a bratwurst at Kmax’s tailgate?
I heard about this kid on the news here in Bozeman tonight. I guess he is spending the night in jail because he busted up a cops head. The cop needed staples to close the gash. I guess they were on him for a MIP.

Bozeman man accused of assaulting police at MSU football game

By TED SULLIVAN Chronicle Staff Writer

A 19-year-old Bozeman man was charged Monday with repeatedly punching a Montana State University police officer in the face at the Bobcat football game Saturday.

Luke Thomas Coder appeared in Gallatin County Justice Court. He is charged with assaulting a police officer, a felony, and three misdemeanors relating to underage drinking and resisting arrest.

He remains in Gallatin County's jail on $50,000 bond.

"The defendant got into a raucous melee with an officer," Deputy Gallatin County Attorney John Worsfold told the court. "The defendant punched the officer several times."

Coder was tailgating during the MSU Bobcat football game when an officer asked him whether he was old enough to drink beer.

Coder told the officer "no," according to court records.

The officer told Coder to accompany him to his patrol car, but Coder attempted to run, and the officer grabbed him.

Coder tackled the officer, smashing his head into the ground, Worsfold said. It took two staples to close the officer's scalp wound; he also injured his hip.

A second officer saw Coder hitting the officer in the face and shoulder and tried to pull Coder off, but Coder began biting at his arm, according to court records.

Coder, who is 5 feet 9 inches tall and weighs 150 pounds, continued to fight until five officers detained him and transported him to jail.

In court Monday, Worsfold asked the court for $75,000 bond, saying Coder has a history of assaulting police officers and resisting arrest.

Coder struck an officer in the head with a cocktail glass in August and fled the scene, Worsfold said. Those charges are still pending.

"He is a danger to law enforcement," Worsfold said. "He has hurt two officers."

Coder's attorney, Deputy Public Defender Eric Brewer, told the court that Coder's criminal history was limited, saying bond should be $1,000.

"These are mere allegations," Brewer said. "We don't know what happened here."

Judge G. L. Smith found the charges disturbing.

"It concerns the court greatly" when a person assaults a police officer, Smith said.

Coder faces a minimum of two years in prison, a maximum of 10 years in prison and a $50,000 fine for assaulting a police officer.

Coder faces additional jail time and fines for underage drinking, obstructing a police officer and resisting arrest.

He will enter a plea to the charges in Gallatin County District Court.

http://bozemandailychronicle.com/articl ... aulted.txt

canyoncat · Post by **canyoncat** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:10 am

Sounds like a good up standing kid

Is he even a student?

I was down in the far north east corner of east parking lot and didn't even see anything. Too many brauts and beers shoved in my face

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:12 am

Suppose the cop knew Coder? Do they intend to circulate through the tailgating section carding kids? Almost as bad as the Flathead County Sheriffs Dept. and their Keg Patrol, right El_Gato

What happened to the days when our finest made the kids dump it out in front of them?

Post by **SonomaCat** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:01 am

So did this violence happen because of the law being broken (that he was drinking underage), or because the law was being enforced (or parts of both)? If the cops hadn't tried to bust him, would he have caused any problems? Or do you suppose he's just a bad kid?

I don't know ... I always get mixed feelings when I hear stories about cops busting a kid for MIP when they are in college. It's a stupid law (you're old enough to kill Iraqis but not old enough to drink beer), and I know how the male ego works (especially with liquid courage) when confronted by (seemingly to the ego) oppressive authority enforcing stupid laws (I saw it many times when I was spending more time with people under 21 -- when I was under 21), so stuff like this tends to happen. Sometimes, it's just a bit of misplaced rebellion that ends up getting a kid in a lot of trouble. Of course, it could be a sign of a larger problem.

But if the cops had just left the kid alone, would his night ended any differently than anyone 21 and over at the tailgates, or was the fact that a bad law was enforced lead to some unnecessary conflict and, unfortunately, violence?

Maybe the kid was making a scene that attracted attention to himself in the first place, which led to him getting busted. If that's the case, then all of my questions are answered in a bad way.

Ponycat · Post by **Ponycat** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:59 pm

i'm not sure if I've ever seen where it's OK for someone doing THEIR JOB to get his head bashed by a drunken idiot, who by the way will only end up causing the rest of us to loose tailgating PRIVLEDGES.

(Gosh I sounded old there, but that kid was way out of line.)

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:24 pm

It sounds like neither side was right to me.

The kid was totally wrong in using violence and should be in jail for what he did. No excuse from the information provided.

The policeman? Well it sounds like he went out of his way on this point. There was probably a good number of underaged drinkers before he came to this one. Why he picked this kid might be a good question to ask. Also, being alone is not that time to push it. I like the idea of dump out the beer and leave the area. There are other ways to get good results than to say hop in the back of my car approach on this.

Given all this, there has been several years of increased drinking problems at colleges (especially the Colorado schools). The campus police may have been under orders to clean it up a little more to remove MSU responsibility issues. If this was the case, they should also have a little more training on how to handle what can happen and how to proceed without a major issue.

CatFamily · Post by **CatFamily** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:03 pm

I wasn't there so I can only base my comment on the article, but it causes me to ask the question why did he run in the first place? Obviously this will spark a chase, secondly why did he go crazy (too much to drink obviously) and bust on the copls as that is only asking for more trouble? He answered no he wasn't of age, more than likely the cops would have taken him calmly back to the car and give him a MIP, maybe a ride home if he is drunk. Thirdly, sounds like he has had some major problems with anger in the past. NO excuses here for him.

spider · Post by **spider** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:35 pm

Ponycat is exactly right. I'm sick of people not taking responsibility for their actions, or misplacing blame. 100% of the fault belongs to the underage drinker. It doesn't really matter whether he, or anyone else for that matter, thinks the law is stupid. It's the law, and if you break it and get caught you should expect to be punished. Coder chose to take the risk that goes along with breaking the law. Don't blame the police for doing their job. That is ridiculous!
If the kid was smart he would have just taken the MIP as it is much better than going to prison for at least two years.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:40 pm

Just to stress the difference, I am not blaming the police for what happened. I know they are just doing their job (although I do prefer the approach of only doing their job of issuing tickets on MIP stuff when somebody is acting in a way that is a problem, which the kid may well have been doing). The vague question I was working around to was whether this was a crime caused by a bad law, or whether it was a crime caused by a bad person, or both?

Remove the bad law, would this violence have taken place?

Clearly, the kid is responsible for what he did. That went without saying. I'm only asking about the cause of what he did.

And I am full agreement that the most important aspect of this to me personally is whether this mucks stuff up for everybody else who wants to tailgate and have a good (and law abiding) time at the game. I hope they just call this an isolated incident and don't go overboard as a result.

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:03 pm

CatFamily wrote:I wasn't there so I can only base my comment on the article, but it causes me to ask the question why did he run in the first place? Obviously this will spark a chase, secondly why did he go crazy (too much to drink obviously) and bust on the copls as that is only asking for more trouble? He answered no he wasn't of age, more than likely the cops would have taken him calmly back to the car and give him a MIP, maybe a ride home if he is drunk. Thirdly, sounds like he has had some major problems with anger in the past. NO excuses here for him.

Totally agree with the kid was wrong. For drinking, having an attitude (in saying No to the policeman), using violence.

Given that, the story in the newspaper would be from the Policeman, not the crowd or the kid, so you are never sure if the Kid really said that and how.

And it does sound like it was a history. The question is was this caused by the policeman knowing the history and picking him out.

It's just a shame that something like this needed to happen and there should be a better way of handling it. Most places the policeman would have called for backup first, get numbers behind and around the location before pushing the issue (asking for a trip to the car). Then there tends to be no issue. The handling by the policeman alone didn't need to be done that way, unless it's the old west and cowboy approach??

Ponycat · Post by **Ponycat** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:27 pm

THe cop had a partner with him. This is a tailgate and an MIP ticket, not a riot.

GavinDonos · Post by **GavinDonos** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:46 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:Remove the bad law, would this violence have taken place?

Clearly, the kid is responsible for what he did. That went without saying. I'm only asking about the cause of what he did.

It's rediculous to think that this law caused a kid to assault an officer. You would have to argue that his punishment under the law would have been so severe that his last resort was to violently resist arrest. I agree that MIPs or maybe the drinking age in general are laughable; but so is the thought that a trying to incapacitate a policeman is a reasonable reaction to the threat of being ticketed, detained, and sentenced to community service.

Besides, how hard is it to find a hideout where you can slam a few beers with your buddies before the game? Not very.

I find it hard to blame our evil justice system and corrupt law enforcement for this one, BAC. The kid behaved the way he did because he is an idiot and a punk, plain and simple.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:00 pm

GavinDonos wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:Remove the bad law, would this violence have taken place?

Clearly, the kid is responsible for what he did. That went without saying. I'm only asking about the cause of what he did.
It's rediculous to think that this law caused a kid to assault an officer. You would have to argue that his punishment under the law would have been so severe that his last resort was to violently resist arrest. I agree that MIPs or maybe the drinking age in general are laughable; but so is the thought that a trying to incapacitate a policeman is a reasonable reaction to the threat of being ticketed, detained, and sentenced to community service.

Besides, how hard is it to find a hideout where you can slam a few beers with your buddies before the game? Not very.

I find it hard to blame our evil justice system and corrupt law enforcement for this one, BAC. The kid behaved the way he did because he is an idiot and a punk, plain and simple.

I don't disagree with anything you said (except as noted in my last paragraph). I guess it's hard to frame the question I was asking in a way that makes sense. Essentially, if the law didn't exist, there would have been no crime being commited, and the dumbass kid wouldn't have come into conflict with the cops in the first place. Therefore, no violence (at that particular moment).

That being said, if this is his reaction to authority, it would have just been a matter of time before he was put into that position, and the violent act would have taken place then.

I just hated the MIP laws when I was under 21, and I still agree with the 20 year old version of myself on this point (one of the few).

Just to make sure that nobody misunderstands my thoughts, though, I need to stress that I never suggested that the law enforcement was corrupt or (with less urgency) that the justice system is evil ... I was only doing "what if" scenario regarding the MIP law itself.

tetoncat · Post by **tetoncat** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:40 pm

The problem with your thoughts is it would require no drinking age because if it was 18 or 19 you still may get a kid 17 that is tailgating, gets asked if he is old enough and reacts like this idiot did. He needed to take responsibility. WE do need some age limit and as long as we have one, there will be people who break it.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:46 pm

tetoncat wrote:The problem with your thoughts is it would require no drinking age because if it was 18 or 19 you still may get a kid 17 that is tailgating, gets asked if he is old enough and reacts like this idiot did. He needed to take responsibility. WE do need some age limit and as long as we have one, there will be people who break it.

Agreed, there does need to be some age limit, but I never understood the rationale of making it 21 as opposed to the age where a person is legally an adult for any other legal purpose.

You can get married, join the army, own a company, enter into any legal contract, and are legally independent of your parents ... yet still not allowed to drink. It would also make most/all college kids legal, while keeping high school kids illegal, so there would be a clear legal distinction related to alcohol between those distinct points in someone's life. In a college setting, there will always be co-mingling between 18 to 23 year olds, so breaking the law is inevitable. There is lesser mixing of 17 year olds and college kids.

BobCatFan · Post by **BobCatFan** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:47 pm

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. The kid is total at fault. He should have taken the $50 fine for MIP. Now he is looking at 2 years in the state pin. I hope he has eyes in the back of his head. He will be a sweet little think for some bigger and lonely inmate.