high school basketball tournament time

[John K]

I want to make a few points.

- Colt Idol is a walk-on as is Steven Davis by some of the post here I am not sure if that is clear.

- I really believe that the 2000's have been shy of a lot of basketball talent. There has been some very good players, yes but just not a lot of them.

- I have said it quite a few times before it seems the D-1 coaches in Montana are more willing to take chances on out of State kids (and fail) than in state kids.

- It is my firm belief that many of the kids who could have been good basketball stars for the UM and MSU programs are now putting their efforts into playing football. Montana is a football crazy state right now. Montana's better athletes want to play football.

- For every Montana kid who failed at MSU or UM I will name a Montana kid who became d-1 despite being told he would not.- For every Montana kid who failed at MSU or UM I will name two out of State kids who failed

- For every out of State kid who failed I can name a Montana kid who did not get a chance that year but now looks like he should have.

- 20/20 hind site makes all of look like basketball genius.

- If Doug Hasley was coming out of high school today non of you would be thrilled about him. he was not that highly regarded back then and would not be today. but once he got to college.

- 10 or more years ago the really good Montana kids wanted/hoped/dreamed to play for Montana State or Montana now they settle for it. The 2 schools are going to have a hard time landing these kids in the future ala Huestis.

- 13 scholarships, 13 scholarships, 13 scholarships, 13 scholarships I can not say this enough. With the old 15 scholarships the schools could sign a Fellows, Faaborg, Sullivan or Garland.

- I am curious to see what happens when Tinkles son or Huse's sons get to be high school seniors. If there dad's are still here, and if they are as good as they look to be, will they go out of state.

That was very well stated, and I could not agree more. Being from Great Falls, one name that comes immediately to mind is Mike Warhank, who was not at all highly regarded coming out of high school, at least in terms of being a legitimate D-I player. He was too slow, not athletic enough, et al. But oh yeah, he could shoot the lights out of the building, which is still a pretty valuable talent in basketball, the last time I checked, and he went on to become an all-BSC player. And you are right about Doug Hashley too, who is another excellent example of a kid who probably would have been destined to play in the Frontier Conference if he was coming out of high school in 2010. I actually sometimes wonder if even Larry Bird would have been ignored by the D-I world if he was playing high school ball in this era?

[LTown Cat]

Back on topic but tournament time is always crazy. Winifred's season ended today with only their 2nd loss of the season (both at divisionals) as Belt beat them. Also, Lewistown's girls team won their opening game of the divisional tournament--why is that relevant?????--it is their first win in 2 years!

[c.falls cat]

I don't think that us MT high school basketball fans do our in-state kids justice when we are judging their possible college prospects. I think we judge the kids we don't see or see little of, on their stats, which often can be misleading or on what other people have told us, for the good and the bad. Another thing I think we are guilty of is having too favorable of a view for the kids that we do see alot of, especially if they have a good preformance against kids that are being recruited in state. ("well player X scored 20 and out played player Y and player Y is going to MSU so player X must be worthy too!")

I think we all agree that we would love to see more MT kids get a shot, on some level. I have not taken in alot of Frontier conference games, but the ones I have seen always bothered me because I felt like just watched a bunch of kids from out of state that are no better than alot of the kids I watched play in high school, just seems like kind of a waste to bring outside kids in when they don't have to.

And lastly, as someone who seen Colt Idol play alot through out his high school career I can say you are crazy if you don't think he was worthy of a walk on spot. That kid is they proto-type for what we all believe a Montana kid should be. He is very hard working, doesn't have a big ego, he doesn't talk a bunch of junk or whine to the refs. He is a very polite and friendly kid who gives you every thing he has on both ends of the floor. I for one am rooting hard for the kid, I hope he is a raving success.

[whitetrashgriz]

I want to make a few points.

- Colt Idol is a walk-on as is Steven Davis by some of the post here I am not sure if that is clear.

- I really believe that the 2000's have been shy of a lot of basketball talent. There has been some very good players, yes but just not a lot of them.

- I have said it quite a few times before it seems the D-1 coaches in Montana are more willing to take chances on out of State kids (and fail) than in state kids.

- It is my firm belief that many of the kids who could have been good basketball stars for the UM and MSU programs are now putting their efforts into playing football. Montana is a football crazy state right now. Montana's better athletes want to play football.

- For every Montana kid who failed at MSU or UM I will name a Montana kid who became d-1 despite being told he would not.

- For every Montana kid who failed at MSU or UM I will name two out of State kids who failed

- For every out of State kid who failed I can name a Montana kid who did not get a chance that year but now looks like he should have.

- 20/20 hind site makes all of look like basketball genius.

- If Doug Hasley was coming out of high school today non of you would be thrilled about him. he was not that highly regarded back then and would not be today. but once he got to college.

- 10 or more years ago the really good Montana kids wanted/hoped/dreamed to play for Montana State or Montana now they settle for it. The 2 schools are going to have a hard time landing these kids in the future ala Huestis.

- 13 scholarships, 13 scholarships, 13 scholarships, 13 scholarships I can not say this enough. With the old 15 scholarships the schools could sign a Fellows, Faaborg, Sullivan or Garland.

- I am curious to see what happens when Tinkles son or Huse's sons get to be high school seniors. If there dad's are still here, and if they are as good as they look to be, will they go out of state.

god, you're good at this. you basically said everything that i just did....only better, and more clear. very well stated, and as always...spot on.

[SonomaCat]

Back on topic but tournament time is always crazy. Winifred's season ended today with only their 2nd loss of the season (both at divisionals) as Belt beat them. Also, Lewistown's girls team won their opening game of the divisional tournament--why is that relevant?????--it is their first win in 2 years!

Damn. And with that, we say goodbye to the Winifred Red Raiders ... forever? Hopefully not, but for the foreseeable future, they will be co-oping with Roy. All of this co-oping makes me really sad.

Winifred's losses don't shock me ... I thought they had an Achilles heel, and some pretty good coaches exploited that at divisionals. They just didn't have enough depth or firepower from the guard position to put the other good teams out of reach.

[BelgradeBobcat]

I don't think we'd be any worse with a third to half of our basketball players coming from in state. And we might be better.

It is a numbers game. If we go out of state for recruits we're drawing from a much, much larger population, but Montana State is probably the 6th choice or even last resort for those recruits. Whereas in state we're drawing from a small population, but we have a chance to be a players top choice (like Bobby Howard fo instance).

[seacat]

And yet another attempt to get back on topic. Rocky Boy and Shelby meet again in a championship game. This time for the Northern B Division title. Is the 4th time the charm for Shelby?

[longhorn_22]

Just a quick clarification. What was the reasoning behind the 13 scholarship thing?

[John K]

And yet another attempt to get back on topic. Rocky Boy and Shelby meet again in a championship game. This time for the Northern B Division title. Is the 4th time the charm for Shelby?

So, based upon your question, I am assuming that Shelby must have lost the last three Northern Divison championship games? Even two years ago, when they went on to win State. They played Fairfileld the past two years....who did they lose to in 2007?

[mslacat]

On Topic. Winfred out and Big Sandy in surprised me. I think talent wise they are equal, but historically Winfred seems to play their best ball come tournement time and Big Sandy not so much. I really though the combination of talent and great coaching for Winfred had them a shoe in for the Class-C title game. I guess that is why we play the game.

BTW Mods it might not be a bad idea to split the Montana recruiting topic from this thread. Good topic but it is really driving this thread off topic. Just a thought.

[bcats]

On Topic. Winfred out and Big Sandy in surprised me. I think talent wise they are equal, but historically Winfred seems to play their best ball come tournement time and Big Sandy not so much. I really though the combination of talent and great coaching for Winfred had them a shoe in for the Class-C title game. I guess that is why we play the game.

BTW Mods it might not be a bad idea to split the Montana recruiting topic from this thread. Good topic but it is really driving this thread off topic. Just a thought.

They did the same thing last year. I don't know if they tighten up or what but they couldn't get it done at divisionals. Power is a good team and gave Winifred fits on the offensive boards. Sometimes you just go cold and nothing falls your way. The Belt game was crazy because most nights they'd beat them by 20. Heavily loaded Senior team but with the Roy kids next year could compete for a District title again. Probably not going to be in the State conversation though.

[jbcat]

quote]They did the same thing last year. I don't know if they tighten up or what but they couldn't get it done at divisionals. Power is a good team and gave Winifred fits on the offensive boards. Sometimes you just go cold and nothing falls your way. The Belt game was crazy because most nights they'd beat them by 20. Heavily loaded Senior team but with the Roy kids next year could compete for a District title again. Probably not going to be in the State conversation though.[/quote]


They will be in the running for divisionals and possibly state. They won't have a star like Stulc but they will be there. Like you said, Roy has some players. And Winifred has a program built. Played against them and watched them my entire life being from Stanford. They have great coaches, the kids buy in and the entire community gathers around it. Parents are disciplined and want to win, not just see their kids play which makes it tough to be a coach in a lot of Class C schools. In turn, the kids are disciplined and they make players out of kids that shouldn't be because of it. They know their roles and are "bball savvy."

Speaking of coaches, ic Marietta has got the girls back in form although she shares head coaching duties. She knows what she is doing and is definately one of the top women's coaches in Class C history, maybe any class.

[seacat]

And yet another attempt to get back on topic. Rocky Boy and Shelby meet again in a championship game. This time for the Northern B Division title. Is the 4th time the charm for Shelby?

So, based upon your question, I am assuming that Shelby must have lost the last three Northern Divison championship games? Even two years ago, when they went on to win State. They played Fairfileld the past two years....who did they lose to in 2007?

No they've lost to Rocky Boy 3 times this year. Twice during the regular season and once in the District 1B championship. And now they've lost for the fourth time. Rocky Boy just beat them to win the Northern B Division. But they are headed to State once again. Was surprised to hear that there are 3 teams headed to state from the North. Wolf Point took third.

[BDizzle]

Just got home from the Laurel/Central game. What an ending. Laurel made a two to tie and then Central came down and made a 3 as the buzzer sounded to win. Laurel could not make a free throw to save their lives. Central wasn't much better. This game was fun and exciting as both defenses came to play. Nothing like a huge rivalry for the championship. Laurel beat Central the two previous matchups this season. First one came in 5 over times so you can tell these teams are very evenly matched. I think Central has now won 3 Eastern A tournaments in a row. Last time Laurel won was in 1999. Should've been 2001 but we choked. Now Laurel has to play Glendive in the play in game. Laurel shouldn't have any trouble but you never know.

My only complaint about this game was the refs. I am a Laurel fan and I think Central got screwed on quite a few calls. Refs called charges on 3 Central possessions in a row. I think only 1 of them was an actual charge. The other two should've been no calls. I think Central had 9 fouls and Laurel has 6 fouls in the first quarter alone! Both of these teams are very physical on defense and like to drive to the basket. I think the refs needed to take a step back and let them play a little. Other than that it was an enjoyable game to watch. Just wish Laurel could've pulled it out.

[wasacatfan]

Talk about a great game just went to Belt Winifred/Roy game W/R beat Belt 59-56 both teams should do very well at state with the way Belt uses its subs they just keep comming after you early 3rd they were down 12 but stepped up the pressure tied it and went ahead early 4th the rest of the game was a 1-3 point lead by either team at any given time W/R made a basket with 1 sec. left for final margin. P.S. J. Sturm from W/R is worth watching she is intense.

[76 cats]

Culbertson Cowboys good job last night take state

[c.falls cat]

Just got home from the Laurel/Central game. What an ending. Laurel made a two to tie and then Central came down and made a 3 as the buzzer sounded to win. Laurel could not make a free throw to save their lives. Central wasn't much better. This game was fun and exciting as both defenses came to play. Nothing like a huge rivalry for the championship. Laurel beat Central the two previous matchups this season. First one came in 5 over times so you can tell these teams are very evenly matched. I think Central has now won 3 Eastern A tournaments in a row. Last time Laurel won was in 1999. Should've been 2001 but we choked. Now Laurel has to play Glendive in the play in game. Laurel shouldn't have any trouble but you never know.

My only complaint about this game was the refs. I am a Laurel fan and I think Central got screwed on quite a few calls. Refs called charges on 3 Central possessions in a row. I think only 1 of them was an actual charge. The other two should've been no calls. I think Central had 9 fouls and Laurel has 6 fouls in the first quarter alone! Both of these teams are very physical on defense and like to drive to the basket. I think the refs needed to take a step back and let them play a little. Other than that it was an enjoyable game to watch. Just wish Laurel could've pulled it out.

I was just looking at the class "a" state bracket, the bottom half of that things is stacked. Laurel, Dillon, Browning and Columbia Falls. I believe all were the number one seeds at divisionals. C. Falls and Laurel have been 1 and 2 all year in the power polls and now they play on the first night of the tourney. Should be a fun first night! And how about the other half of the bracket, those teams must be thrilled with the way it shook out, they all have a real shot now.

[BDizzle]

Laurel has to play Glendive on Monday in Miles City. Winner goes to state so lets hope Laurel doesn't suffer a let-down.

[BDizzle]

And Laurel moves on to State!!!! Lets go Locomotives.

[Gus]

Rumor has it that one of the Bozeman Hawk starters got a MIP over the weekend and is off the team... Hardly a selfish move five days before the play in game against Skyview.