Cruzado-Salas offered position as MSU president

[rtb]

I don't know. I would rather know that our public officials were trying to negotiate with two different parties at once and also approached a candidate asking them to name their price then to have this go unknown and believe that the situation was handled properly and above board. If we didn't know how this went down then we couldn't even start to explore if we have the right approach when hiring. Now I think we can ask those questions and find out if this is just sour grapes or if we need some serious training on how to properly hire and fire within our university system. How many wrongful discharge lawsuits has the university system faced recently and now this? To me it appears they need some HR training.

[SonomaCat]

I don't know. I would rather know that our public officials were trying to negotiate with two different parties at once and also approached a candidate asking them to name their price then to have this go unknown and believe that the situation was handled properly and above board. If we didn't know how this went down then we couldn't even start to explore if we have the right approach when hiring. Now I think we can ask those questions and find out if this is just sour grapes or if we need some serious training on how to properly hire and fire within our university system. How many wrongful discharge lawsuits has the university system faced recently and now this? To me it appears they need some HR training.

How many of those lawsuits have turned out to have merit?

[rtb]

How many of those lawsuits have turned out to have merit?

Well I believe Kramer's is still pending and seems to be legit when he was fired without cause and then the media was given cause "crisis in leadership", MSU settled with the engineering professor even though one jury found them not guilty which seems odd to go through the expense of a trial and then settle before the appeals process, and I believe there are still others pending, but I'm not fully knowledgeable. Most lawyers won't enter into a case if there isn't some merit there. These people aren't just doing this for fun and Montana has some pretty strong laws to protect employees.

[SonomaCat]

How many of those lawsuits have turned out to have merit?

Well I believe Kramer's is still pending and seems to be legit when he was fired without cause and then the media was given cause "crisis in leadership", MSU settled with the engineering professor even though one jury found them not guilty which seems odd to go through the expense of a trial and then settle before the appeals process, and I believe there are still others pending, but I'm not fully knowledgeable. Most lawyers won't enter into a case if there isn't some merit there. These people aren't just doing this for fun and Montana has some pretty strong laws to protect employees.

So none of them, to date, have resulted in MSU being found to be in the wrong by the legal system?

Many lawyers will be happy to file a lawsuit and have a big dog and pony show press conference for posturing purposes regardless of whether a case has merit (especially if the lawsuit has the potential to harm a football program that is the attorney's favorite football program's arch rival). But most attorneys won't actually invest many hours trying that case if the dog and pony show doesn't scare the defendent's into submission.

I wonder how many hours Edwards has actually invested in that case since the press conference?

[rtb]

So none of them, to date, have resulted in MSU being found to be in the wrong by the legal system?

I don't know that. Do you know the entire history of the cases against the university system? My point was not that we've been found guilty X number of times. The point is the number of issues we've seen with both hirings and firings recently cause me concern.

[SonomaCat]

So none of them, to date, have resulted in MSU being found to be in the wrong by the legal system?

I don't know that. Do you know the entire history of the cases against the university system? My point was not that we've been found guilty X number of times. The point is the number of issues we've seen with both hirings and firings recently cause me concern.

I understand the point you are raising and your concern. My point was that it's not always a reliable to conclude that because people filed lawsuits that there was actually wrong-doing done by the entity ... because a lawsuit is nothing more than an accusation (that coincidentally demands money for the accuser). Unless those accusations are substantiated by court decisions finding wrong-doing on the part of th entity, they don't mean much (except perhaps to validate the popular cliche that we are a litigious society and that many people like to treat our civil courts like the lottery).

[rtb]

And my point is that the number of lawsuits filed seems higher than your average large business in Montana. So MY OPINION is that I am slightly concerned about the hiring and firing done by the university system. Is it ok for me to have an opinion and be concerned?

[SonomaCat]

And my point is that the number of lawsuits filed seems higher than your average large business in Montana. So MY OPINION is that I am slightly concerned about the hiring and firing done by the university system. Is it ok for me to have an opinion and be concerned?

Of course it's okay for you to have an opinion and be concerned. I am quite sure no moderators censored you in any way.

Is it also okay for me to post information and opinions that present a different perspective?

[rtb]

Yeah it just gets a little old when anyone has an opinion that you have to grind it out and try to debate it all day. Can't you just say I see your point, here is my opinion and call it good?

[SonomaCat]

Yeah it just gets a little old when anyone has an opinion that you have to grind it out and try to debate it all day. Can't you just say I see your point, here is my opinion and call it good?

That's almost exactly what my last post in the substantive discussion said (before you replied with vinegar and we switched gears). If you truly wanted to end the discussion prior to that point, why didn't YOU post something that said "I see your point, here is my opinion and call it good?" Why was the onus only on me to wrap it up like that (before the point at which I did exactly that)?

[rtb]

I guess I missed the first part of your point because then it appeared that you were calling me out for using lawsuits filed as a faulty assumption and I felt needed to clarify why I believe that is a fair data point to use.

I guess the key is this isn't the first and isn't the last thread the turns into a very drawn out and detailed debate on opinion. I hear frequently from board readers and posters how they won't bother to share their opinion because they get tired of being dragged down into a long argument with you that gets pretty nit picky and feels like they need to provide a bibliography of all their sources that helped form the opinion. I guess I was just hoping to bring a little light to that and see if there are times where you can just post your opinion without getting into playing the devils advocate game. I think it's fine to stir up debate here and there, but often times it is just frustrating for people on this board.

I agree that my opinion on this topic isn't perfect and I don't know all the facts, but I also wanted to hear from people who thought it was just sour grapes so we could dig in and find out if there is a concern with our system here or if I just read the article wrong.

[SonomaCat]

I hear frequently from board readers and posters how they won't bother to share their opinion because they get tired of being dragged down into a long argument with you that gets pretty nit picky and feels like they need to provide a bibliography of all their sources that helped form the opinion. I guess I was just hoping to bring a little light to that and see if there are times where you can just post your opinion without getting into playing the devils advocate game. I think it's fine to stir up debate here and there, but often times it is just frustrating for people on this board.

I honestly will never even consider apologizing for trying to steer conversations toward being substantive and fact-based, even if that requires a few posts to flesh out the basis for people's opinions. That, to me, is the only kind of discussion worth having.

I guess if people aren't interested in having a detailed discussion to support/explore the assertions they make (which are generally quite critical and strongly-worded assertions), they always have the option of just ignoring my posts.

[rtb]

Fair enough.

[wbtfg]

A fun little trip down memory lane. I think everyone will agree that Dr. Cruzado has turned out to be a GREAT hire for MSU and I hope she sticks around for a very long time.

[77matcat]

[91catAlum]

Yikes... I'm glad the folks actually making the decisions were a bit more insightful than some who posted here 10 years ago!

[HiLineCat]

I am disgusted with the search committee with this choice. We are a land grant institution with an emphasis in enginering and agriculture, with a major research componet in each discipline. What are we doing trying to hire someone with a liberal arts background in human rights. We had a excellent canidate in Dr. Steve Leath from North Carolina State. He has a background in plant pathology and tons of experience in administration. He was Associate Director of their Agricultural Experiment Station and is the vice president for research at NCS. He seems to be a much better fit for the type of University we are. I invite all of you to read and compare their vitae's and tell me wich one you would have leading our University.
Remeber that Montana's leading industry is agriculture. I have talked with many ag people in the state and they all told me that we need an ag person leading the University. A lot of them are unhappy with the direction MSU has taken with regards to agriculture and this choice is going to greatly disapoint them.

Boy was I ever wrong on this one! She has been one of the greatest supporters of Ag I have seen in a MSU president. She always talks about the 3 legs of a Land-Grant University; teaching,research and outreach. I Think she was definetly worth the raise she received.

[wbtfg]

it's also interesting to take a look at Steven Leath's career path. He was named President at Iowa State, and then President at Auburn University. He had some controversy both places and was recently fired from Auburn and was given a $4+million buyout.

[HelenaCat95]

I fully admit that I was 100% wrong about Cruzado......and I'm happy that I was wrong.
She is one of the best things to happen to MSU, and I hope she's around for a long time.

[KittieKop]

Much of this thread didn't age well at all.