Tribe not going to settle, recommend new Fighting Sioux name

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Post by SonomaCat » Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:16 pm

NrthFce wrote:The name is not derogatory. If they want to call themselves the Fighting Dutchies I would approve. In fact if they wanted to call themselves The Drunk Happy Honkies from the North or the Fat Lazy White Dudes I wouldn't get offended. The point is they are referring to THEIR team, not the people around them.

Either way I could give a hoot less if they have to change their name.... I just think it is a waste of time and money that could be spent on doing worth while things.....
Do I "equate" them? No. Are there very, very strong parallels? Yes.

If they are referring to THEIR team, why aren't they using a mascot that is named and marketed in a way that reflects THEM as opposed to naming it after somebody else's culture?

Now take off and go drink an Elsinor as you ride your horse to the nearest Mountie station to protest against America, eh. We Americans don't really care what you hosers think, anyway.



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Post by College Recruiter » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:01 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:.......... and it was never an Olympic mascot.
Image

a similar copy of this image (the discus thrower) was made and awarded to Olympic medal winners in 1924. It was a recognized symbol of the olympics in ancient greek times as well, and then became a modern symbol of the olympics, especially after the 1924 Olympics.

Now thats a mascot!! Started in 500 BC and made it 2500 years, but now that we are enlightened, we have this:


Image
Last edited by College Recruiter on Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post by Au Blue » Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:42 pm

Image

If I were the Stay Puft marshmallow, I would find this offensive



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Post by College Recruiter » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:23 pm

Au Blue wrote:Image


:goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost:
If I were the Stay Puft marshmallow, I would find this offensive
Good post AuBlue!!

LOL...cmon AuBlue...its a "caricature" of an ice cube! Now that is getting into the depths of non-inflammatory mascots...wouldnt you say??!!!

Pretty sure no "ice cubes" will be getting all sensitive anytime soon!



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Post by Au Blue » Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:08 am

College Recruiter wrote:
Au Blue wrote:Image


:goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost:
If I were the Stay Puft marshmallow, I would find this offensive
Good post AuBlue!!

LOL...cmon AuBlue...its a "caricature" of an ice cube! Now that is getting into the depths of non-inflammatory mascots...wouldnt you say??!!!

Pretty sure no "ice cubes" will be getting all sensitive anytime soon!
Are you sure? :wink:

Image



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Post by College Recruiter » Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:51 am

Au Blue wrote:
College Recruiter wrote:
Au Blue wrote:Image


:goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost:
If I were the Stay Puft marshmallow, I would find this offensive
Good post AuBlue!!

LOL...cmon AuBlue...its a "caricature" of an ice cube! Now that is getting into the depths of non-inflammatory mascots...wouldnt you say??!!!

Pretty sure no "ice cubes" will be getting all sensitive anytime soon!
Are you sure? :wink:

Image
OOOPS! My bad........



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Post by cats2506 » Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:04 am

Just wait till PETA decides that we shouldnt have animals as mascots either.



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Post by College Recruiter » Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:17 am

cats2506 wrote:Just wait till PETA decides that we shouldnt have animals as mascots either.
You don't have to wait any longer...they have been on this highly important issue for years!

PETA Wants University of South Carolina to Drop the 'Gamecocks' Name
By Brian Carnell
Thursday, October 18, 2001
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals recently sent a letter to University of South Carolina president John Palms asking him to drop the Gamecocks nickname from the university. USC's football team is receiving a lot of national attention for its 5-1 record, and apparently PETA decided to try to piggyback on that publicity.
In its letter, PETA spokesman Kristie Phelps wrote that, "Like spousal abuse, bank robbery and driving while intoxicated, cockfighting is illegal in South Carolina." She told The State that, "It's a safe bet that officials at the University of South Carolina would never dream of calling their athletic teams the Dogfighters, the Wifebeaters, the Looters or the Road-Ragers."

(cont.) >> http://www.animalrights.net/archives/ye ... 00208.html



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Post by College Recruiter » Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:28 am

Published: Monday, September 10, 2007

campus tradition
Animal Advocates Target Use Of Mascots
By JERE LONGMAN
The New York Times
BATON ROUGE, La. | Fans who are in town Saturday for Louisiana State's home opener against Virginia Tech can get a glimpse of LSU's latest recruits - football players and a tiger mascot.

Image


LEE CELANO | THE NEW YORK TIMES
Mike VI, the Louisiana State University Tigers' mascot, rests recently inside his $2.9 million habitat at the university in Baton Rouge, La. LSU has kept live tigers since 1936.


Mike VI, a 2-year-old Bengal-Siberian tiger who is expected to grow to 700 pounds, was acquired in August from an animal-rescue center in Indiana.

The tiger was placed on view Sept. 1 in a $2.9 million, 15,000-square-foot campus habitat equipped with a wading pool, a waterfall, scratching posts, air-conditioned sleeping quarters and around-the-clock care from the LSU School of Veterinary Medicine.

"He probably gets better medical treatment than most of us," Sean O'Keefe, LSU's chancellor, said. "He's one charmed cat."

That is a widely held view here, where football and a live tiger are seen as essential to the character of the state's flagship university. But not everyone agrees. The university and the state are on the skirmish lines of a growing fight waged by animal-rights groups, lawmakers and courts to bar the use of animals as live mascots, for staging fights or even in certain types of sporting equipment. Perhaps never before have animals been so prominent on the sports landscape.

When LSU's previous mascot died in May of kidney failure at age 17, representatives of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals asked the school not to get another live tiger. PETA argued that tigers need to roam over hundreds of miles, not square feet, and that wild animals become stressed in stadiums filled with tens of thousands of people.

Meanwhile, in June, Louisiana became the 50th state to ban cockfighting. In July, the California Supreme Court effectively prohibited the sale of soccer shoes made from kangaroo hides. And the National Basketball Association continues to experiment with synthetic materials for its basketballs.

Public sensitivity about the treatment of animals has been acutely evident in the past year, with the outpouring of grief after the death of the 2006 Kentucky Derby champion Barbaro and the national outrage aimed at the NFL quarterback Michael Vick after he acknowledged his involvement in dogfighting.

"These are manifestations of increasing concern about well-being and the ethic that if you are going to use animals, there should be a compelling reason," said Wayne Pacelle, the chief executive of the Humane Society of the United States.

changing attitudes

In 1992, Jackie Sherrill, then the football coach at Mississippi State, got off with an apology and a warning after he had a bull castrated to motivate his players for a game against Texas, whose mascot is a longhorn steer named Bevo.

Public attitudes appear to have changed since then. Louisiana state Sen. Arthur J. Lentini of Metairie, a New Orleans suburb, led the effort in Louisiana to ban cockfighting, in which roosters are fitted with spikes for slashing duels. Some Louisiana legislators said that cockfighting was a Cajun tradition and a rural economic lifeline.

Lentini said, "I felt it was very detrimental to the image of this state to be the only remaining state that permitted this activity in which animals are hurt for the amusement and wagering of human beings." The ban takes effect in August 2008.

Last year, the soccer star David Beckham switched from soccer shoes made from kangaroo skin to a synthetic alternative after a campaign by animal-rights groups. In July, the California Supreme Court banned the sale of kangaroo-skin shoes in settling a lawsuit.

Response to the court decision has been mixed. While animal-rights groups celebrated, officials in Australia protested, saying that kangaroos are no longer endangered and need to be culled for proper conservation. A bill that would permit products made from kangaroo hides is pending in the California Legislature.

"Consumers should not be intimidated by the scare tactics of extremists who have a long-term agenda of banning the use of nonendangered animal products," Warren Truss, Australia's trade minister, said in a statement after the court ruling.

The Vick case, too, has come to be viewed by some in a more nuanced way. Vick, who has been suspended by the NFL and faces a possible prison sentence, has been widely criticized. Yet some observers say that Vick has been subjected to greater outrage and punishment than players who have committed violence against people in shootings, incidents of domestic violence or fatal traffic accidents.

The LSU case represents perhaps PETA's most visible attempt to dissuade universities from using live mascots. LSU has kept live tigers since 1936. About three dozen schools keep live mascots. Others have discontinued the practice as being inhumane or too costly for appropriate care.

Southeastern Louisiana University, located east of here in Hammond, once housed a live lion during football season in an arrangement with the Audubon Zoo of New Orleans. The arrangement ended in 1972 when the university, which lacks a veterinary school on campus, realized it could not provide suitable care, Christina Chapple, a Southeastern spokeswoman, said.

"Everybody was excited, then the reality of keeping a live animal on campus set in," Chapple said. "We weren't set up to handle that."

When LSU's previous tiger mascot died, PETA sent a letter to the school saying that large carnivores "suffer extremely" in captivity because they are denied the opportunity to engage in natural behaviors such as running, climbing, hunting, establishing territory and choosing mates. Most universities and all major professional teams use costumed humans, not live animals, as mascots, PETA said.

Last modified: September 10. 2007 5:58AM



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Post by theblackgecko » Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:25 pm

I should sue that insurance company which has defamed the names of good geckos everywhere.


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Post by GavinDonos » Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:15 pm

Seems to me that the Sioux tribe has a lot more to worry about than what kind of logo some college puts on their sweaters and baseball caps. But hey, if thats the biggest problem they can find that is facing their culture today then, by golly, I hope this injustice get righted.

Someday, hopefully, all the worlds woes that have been perpetuated by the evil white, Christian male can be erased from history. Mascots seems like a good place to start.



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Post by College Recruiter » Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:48 pm

GavinDonos wrote:Seems to me that the Sioux tribe has a lot more to worry about than what kind of logo some college puts on their sweaters and baseball caps. But hey, if thats the biggest problem they can find that is facing their culture today then, by golly, I hope this injustice get righted.

Someday, hopefully, all the worlds woes that have been perpetuated by the evil white, Christian male can be erased from history. Mascots seems like a good place to start.
Here is a little article written in the Stanford University Newspaper which addresses what you are saying Gavin:

Mascot Complaints Deflect from Important Issues
by Joe Fairbanks, Alumnus


The Review is printing the following letter from one of our alumni. The letter, which was originally addressed to The Stanford Daily, was not printed for unknown reasons.

Editor, Stanford Daily:

As a former member of the Native American community at Stanford, a former editor for the The Review, and someone currently working on public policy issues facing American Indians, I’m personally offended that Adam Bad Wound is effectively advocating restrictions on free speech and free press as a means of shielding select grievance groups from ideas or objects they may find insensitive. Not only are his proposed “solutions” disturbing, but they irresponsibly deflect energy from the more pressing issues confronting Native Americans.
The problems facing Native communities throughout this country are much more serious than a cartoon or school mascot. And, despite attempts by cynics claiming victimization, none of these problems are caused directly or indirectly by the use of those mascots. My tribe, along with others in my state of Oklahoma, is plagued by things like drug and alcohol dependency, substandard education, deadbeat fathers, and rampant corruption in the tribal councils. Those are just a few of the dozens of problems we are addressing today. Any attempt to relate these problems to the use of Indian mascots is silly.

Yet, what makes this entire debate more alarming is that people like Mr. Bad Wound use such ploys to advance University speech codes that seek to incrementally restrict speech on campuses in the name of “tolerance” and the Fundamental Standard.

As a Native American, I want to address the real issues facing our people—and I’m sure Mr. Bad Wound shares this desire. The difference between us, however, is that diabetes, abject poverty, and corruption are more important to me and the vast majority of Natives than some man dressing as or drawing our people.

Joe Fairbanks ‘05



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Post by AlphaGriz1 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:23 am

theblackgecko wrote:I should sue that insurance company which has defamed the names of good geckos everywhere.
And why is the Gecko "green"?

Insensitive racist bastards.


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Post by grizzh8r » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:02 pm

Thanks for the good posts guys. They prove that once a precident is set, others will try to exploit that for their interests, however skewed they may be. BAC, I have to ask - do you agree with PETA as well?


Eric Curry STILL makes me sad.
94VegasCat wrote:Are you for real? That is just a plain ol dumb paragraph! You just nailed every note in the Full grizidiot - yep , that includes you GRIZFNZ - sing-a-long choir!!!
:rofl:

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Post by SonomaCat » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:18 pm

grizzh8r wrote:Thanks for the good posts guys. They prove that once a precident is set, others will try to exploit that for their interests, however skewed they may be. BAC, I have to ask - do you agree with PETA as well?
This might be a concept that is difficult (and way more time-consuming than I am willing to further invest in this thread) to explain to those that don't come to it on their own ... but comparing PETA's silly concerns about animal mascots is NOT comparable to an Indian tribe's concerns about the portrayal of their own people and culture in the form of a mascot.

So no, I do not support or care about PETA's mascot worries. And I do not care to insult Native Americans by suggesting that their concerns are equal to those of animals.



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Post by grizzh8r » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:36 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:
grizzh8r wrote:Thanks for the good posts guys. They prove that once a precident is set, others will try to exploit that for their interests, however skewed they may be. BAC, I have to ask - do you agree with PETA as well?
This might be a concept that is difficult (and way more time-consuming than I am willing to further invest in this thread) to explain to those that don't come to it on their own ... but comparing PETA's silly concerns about animal mascots is NOT comparable to an Indian tribe's concerns about the portrayal of their own people and culture in the form of a mascot.

So no, I do not support or care about PETA's mascot worries. And I do not care to insult Native Americans by suggesting that their concerns are equal to those of animals.
:shock:

You know I was NOT insinuating that, BAC. The fact that you said that shows how PC you really are... :bag:


Eric Curry STILL makes me sad.
94VegasCat wrote:Are you for real? That is just a plain ol dumb paragraph! You just nailed every note in the Full grizidiot - yep , that includes you GRIZFNZ - sing-a-long choir!!!
:rofl:

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Post by tampa_griz » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:39 pm

grizzh8r wrote:
BAC wrote:So no, I do not support or care about PETA's mascot worries. And I do not care to insult Native Americans by suggesting that their concerns are equal to those of animals.
:shock:

You know I was NOT insinuating that, BAC. The fact that you said that shows how PC you really are... :bag:
Then what was the purpose of analogizing PETA's concerns with the tribes'? Seems like you were trying to call out BAC on his flawed logic because he might not think PETA's concerns are as serious as Native Americans'.



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Post by SonomaCat » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:49 pm

grizzh8r wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:
grizzh8r wrote:Thanks for the good posts guys. They prove that once a precident is set, others will try to exploit that for their interests, however skewed they may be. BAC, I have to ask - do you agree with PETA as well?
This might be a concept that is difficult (and way more time-consuming than I am willing to further invest in this thread) to explain to those that don't come to it on their own ... but comparing PETA's silly concerns about animal mascots is NOT comparable to an Indian tribe's concerns about the portrayal of their own people and culture in the form of a mascot.

So no, I do not support or care about PETA's mascot worries. And I do not care to insult Native Americans by suggesting that their concerns are equal to those of animals.
:shock:

You know I was NOT insinuating that, BAC. The fact that you said that shows how PC you really are... :bag:
Then why on earth are you even talking about PETA and animals and suggesting that it is germane to a discussion about the Sioux tribe's concerns (which you obviously are doing seeing as how this thread, as well as all of my previous comments, relate to the UND/Sioux issue)?



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Post by grizzh8r » Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:49 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:
grizzh8r wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:
grizzh8r wrote:Thanks for the good posts guys. They prove that once a precident is set, others will try to exploit that for their interests, however skewed they may be. BAC, I have to ask - do you agree with PETA as well?
This might be a concept that is difficult (and way more time-consuming than I am willing to further invest in this thread) to explain to those that don't come to it on their own ... but comparing PETA's silly concerns about animal mascots is NOT comparable to an Indian tribe's concerns about the portrayal of their own people and culture in the form of a mascot.

So no, I do not support or care about PETA's mascot worries. And I do not care to insult Native Americans by suggesting that their concerns are equal to those of animals.
:shock:

You know I was NOT insinuating that, BAC. The fact that you said that shows how PC you really are... :bag:
Then why on earth are you even talking about PETA and animals and suggesting that it is germane to a discussion about the Sioux tribe's concerns (which you obviously are doing seeing as how this thread, as well as all of my previous comments, relate to the UND/Sioux issue)?
Because it IS! I'll repeat; once a precident is set, others will try to exploit that for their interests. Do you see what I am saying? We are talking about a name. A NAME FOR CRIPES SAKE! If it had the same connotation as the N word, or any other slur, I would be all for it. Since the phrase "Fighting Sioux" is NOT a slur, it is beyond me why it is an issue.

If we keep letting petty things like this cause racial tension, this country WILL NEVER get across the racial divide. I'll say it again. GET OVER IT. I am sorry about what happened to the Indians, Blacks, Asians, and any other people that were taken advantage of by our forefathers, but we cannot change it. We, as a society, need to let it go, and quit having a chip on our collective shoulders about it.

Sorry about the rant.


Eric Curry STILL makes me sad.
94VegasCat wrote:Are you for real? That is just a plain ol dumb paragraph! You just nailed every note in the Full grizidiot - yep , that includes you GRIZFNZ - sing-a-long choir!!!
:rofl:

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Post by SonomaCat » Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:38 pm

I believe it has been explained many, many times so far in this thread that the issue is not an assertion that "Fighting Sioux" is a racial slur, but rather that this is a matter of a people's culture and heritage being misrepresented by a caricature mascot.

It is clear that many people don't WANT to understand the issue, so they can then play the "PC card" to mock the issue.

And yes, we can change "it." We have been slowly over the years, and we should continue to do so (and undoubtedly will). Not mocking those who ask that their people and culture to be treated with dignity would be a great start. At very least, we should listen to them and UNDERSTAND the issue before we dismiss and criticize it.

A great starting place would be to avoid comparing Native Americans' concerns to those of animals. Just a word to the wise.



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