Moving up to the Bowl Subdivision

[1BadBobcat]

No way should we move up. Why would anyone want to sacrifice what we are going through right now (1-AA playoffs and a shot at a national title)? At this level, we not only have a chance to compete for a conference championship, but a national championship as well.

Case in point: Boise State. They are doing as well as any school could ever (or will ever) do after making the jump up to 1-A. Undefeated season, and they won't even get a sniff at the title game. Granted, they will get a BCS bowl bid. Oh, we're in the Fiesta Bowl, big deal! Their best season ever and they won't even get to put the crowning achievement on it - a national championship.

This brings me to college basketball, where I think we should have two divisions as well (1-A and 1-AA), but this is an arguement for another day. Myself, I would rather have my team compete on a national stage, in a playoff format, and have the chance to bring a national championship home to Bozeman!

[Catfan2030]

One thing that came up earlier made a lot of sence...if UM moves up it is doubtful that we dont move up with them. I mean i think it would be the worst desicion in Montana to split these two teams up. If there was no CAT/griz game i think it would diminish the fan base more than say montana kids not being able to play in either schools much. I know this is an important factor, but honestly without the rivalry it would be the fall of MSU and UM.

[Cat-theotherwhitemeat]

...Case in point: Boise State. They are doing as well as any school could ever (or will ever) do after making the jump up to 1-A. Undefeated season, and they won't even get a sniff at the title game. Granted, they will get a BCS bowl bid. Oh, we're in the Fiesta Bowl, big deal!

Are you kidding? You mean to tell me you'd rather win a 1-AA (I'll be calling it that for years to come) championship than a Fiesta Bowl?? Please tell me you're joking because I'm not sure how I'd respond to that.

[vike_king]

I think we are fine where we are.

[1BadBobcat]

...Case in point: Boise State. They are doing as well as any school could ever (or will ever) do after making the jump up to 1-A. Undefeated season, and they won't even get a sniff at the title game. Granted, they will get a BCS bowl bid. Oh, we're in the Fiesta Bowl, big deal!

Are you kidding? You mean to tell me you'd rather win a 1-AA (I'll be calling it that for years to come) championship than a Fiesta Bowl?? Please tell me you're joking because I'm not sure how I'd respond to that.

Whoops, my bad. Yeah, I guess I wouldn't mind being in the Fiesta Bowl. Let's substitute that for the Sugar Bowl or the Orance Bowl, 'cause Boise ain't gonna get invited to the Fiesta. I got so caught up in my rant that I forgot what bowl was "the bowl". Again, another reason that 1-A has got to go to a playoff sysytem.

[Cat-theotherwhitemeat]

...Case in point: Boise State. They are doing as well as any school could ever (or will ever) do after making the jump up to 1-A. Undefeated season, and they won't even get a sniff at the title game. Granted, they will get a BCS bowl bid. Oh, we're in the Fiesta Bowl, big deal!

Are you kidding? You mean to tell me you'd rather win a 1-AA (I'll be calling it that for years to come) championship than a Fiesta Bowl?? Please tell me you're joking because I'm not sure how I'd respond to that.

Whoops, my bad. Yeah, I guess I wouldn't mind being in the Fiesta Bowl. Let's substitute that for the Sugar Bowl or the Orance Bowl, 'cause Boise ain't gonna get invited to the Fiesta. I got so caught up in my rant that I forgot what bowl was "the bowl". Again, another reason that 1-A has got to go to a playoff sysytem.

Same question then, you'd rather win a I-AA championship game than a Sugar Bowl or an Orange Bowl? NO NO NO NO!!

[grizzh8r]

I'm not sure if the Boise area has quite reached the 200-300K mark yet.

Anyway, I have a few things I'd like to add to this discussion.

1. Money: It takes a lot of money to move up to the Bowl Subdivision. Someone has to finance facility upgrades and the increase in scholarships to football and add the additional programs necessary to keep Title IX compliance. State government support for the University System isn't enough to run the schools without a nice little upcharge in tuition each year. (I remember when I used to have extra money after the semester payment was due, and that was 2 years ago!) The athletic fee is $64, which I'm not opposed at all to paying because I benefit greatly from it. Some people don't use it at all. One fee is ok, but the trick here is to add another fee for this, another fee for that, and top it off with a SUB renovation fee of $55/semester that hasn't even started yet. And let's add special fees for things like studying nursing, business, or doing student teaching. And let's not go into the conditions of the classroom buildings at MSU. Students and the university itself are strapped enough that extra money for athletics is not really possible to give.

2. Athletic donors. I know that athletics bring in money for universities, but it goes almost completely to athletics. Students can start leaving school with $30,000 in debt while looking at a brand-new indoor practice facility they'll never use. Large donors are really needed for major upgrades, and MSU has a few good people like the Thayer family who give so selflessly, but not like an Ohio State or Oregon. MSU does not have the donors who could pour enough money into the athletic department to make this happen.

3. Facilities. For a successful move up, the football stadium would need at least 25,000 seats and the capacity to fill them. The University of Montana showed it can happen, and MSU could do the same thing. A basketball arena would need at least 10,000 and the capacity to fill it. Do we have that here? Brick Breeden Fieldhouse would need some big renovations, or there would have to be a new arena constructed. I guess it's a money issue again. If a completely new sport such as swimming/diving or softball needed to be added, what kind of facilities would need to be constructed?

4. The other sports. We talk about football moving up, and that's a great thing. A move up, unless the entire Big Sky moves up, would require a switch to a larger conference, either the WAC or Mountain West. Football might compete at some point, but what about basketball, volleyball, track, and all of the other sports? How would they compete? And what other sports would have to be added to maintain compliance with Title IX?

I think that eventually MSU could make this move, but a lot of things would have to happen, like big money coming in. The Mountain West would be a really fun conference, but a move like this is at least 20 years away for MSU as far as money levels go. I'd say wait until the circumstances are right.

In response:
1. I paid $185 per QUARTER for my wife when she was going to the University of Georgia TEN years ago in activity fees.

2. We have over 50 of the richest Americans with vacation homes less than 50 miles from Bozo. I'm afraid our folks may be so intimidated by being around this fellow human beings they'll never even attempt to ask for tax deductible contributions

3. Our fieldhouse is 50 years old! Imagine Mr. Beck saying "It can't be done." This was once the best facility in the U.S. We've got the greatest engineering school and faculty anywhere! Could you imagine what a work study program this could become?

4. Don't slap me girls, but we'll pay their way. If Bozeman, Montana has become a destination location, what is wrong with our school's leadership to not recognize we as an institution are also among the elite? Too much jealously from down the road and they won't let it happen?

He who hesitates is lost. Do it now. McClellan got relieved and replaced by somebody capable of making a decision, and if it was wrong, having the capacity to recognize that it was wrong and fixed it. Damn it Lieutenant, make a decision

In response to the response:

1. Good point.

2. Bad point. I would be willing to bet that of those 50 people, 90% of them could give a sh!t less about MSU and Bobcat Atheltics. They come to their 2-weeks-out-of-the-year BS vacations homes to flaunt them to their rich friends and ski.

3. Bad point. This is a school of engineering, but the fallacy in your theory of having students build a new arena via work-study is this: In college, engineering students are taught the basics to prepare them for their careers (Iwould know - I am one). They need a good 5-10 years (at least) of work experience before they undertake such an effort. As stated in my HVAC textbook; "There is no substitute for experience and good judgement in designing the air distribution system." 'Nuff said.

4. I don't understand what you are trying to say....

Do it now? Uhhh.... NO. I don't want MSU to end up like FIU, FAU, and Ida-ho.

[1BadBobcat]

...Case in point: Boise State. They are doing as well as any school could ever (or will ever) do after making the jump up to 1-A. Undefeated season, and they won't even get a sniff at the title game. Granted, they will get a BCS bowl bid. Oh, we're in the Fiesta Bowl, big deal!

Are you kidding? You mean to tell me you'd rather win a 1-AA (I'll be calling it that for years to come) championship than a Fiesta Bowl?? Please tell me you're joking because I'm not sure how I'd respond to that.

Whoops, my bad. Yeah, I guess I wouldn't mind being in the Fiesta Bowl. Let's substitute that for the Sugar Bowl or the Orance Bowl, 'cause Boise ain't gonna get invited to the Fiesta. I got so caught up in my rant that I forgot what bowl was "the bowl". Again, another reason that 1-A has got to go to a playoff sysytem.

Same question then, you'd rather win a I-AA championship game than a Sugar Bowl or an Orange Bowl? NO NO NO NO!!

My answer is YES. I would rather win a 1-AA National Championship than any 1-A bowl game that wasn't for the 1-A title. Who the hell cares about meaningless bowl games if you cant emphatically state you are the national champion? Call me weird, but I will take the 1-AA title any day of the week. Maybe it is because I realize that even if the Bobcats (or the Grizzlies for that matter) move up to 1-A, they will never compete for a national title, let alone a BCS bowl game. I am content where we are, thank you very much!