MSU's 4-loss case

[Weltercat]

Why do you think the fiz had a home game last year. Cal poly was certainly more deserving.

Were they? They had the same record as the Griz did, and the Griz beat them head-to-head in the regular season. Weren't you the one who was arguing earlier that the head-to-head result ought to be the deciding factor?

OK, you got me.

[Weltercat]

Look, Harbaugh might be crying about wanting to go to the playoffs, but the so-called non-scholarshiped mid-majors have never been invited although they've certainly had undefeated teams in their ranks before. Should we start a list of all the non-scholarshipped football teams whose coaches have complained about not being invited to the playoffs over the yars. Let's see you do it Old wise one. I can think of four off the top of my head. Let's see if you've forgotten more than anybody knows.
The I-AA playoffs were created by and ran by full-scholarshiped schools.

Not sure that is true. Didn't Colgate make the finals a couple years ago and I am quite sure that they do not offer scholarships’.

[old wise one]

Citizen Griz,

I am not arguing with you about the validity of San Diego being in the playoffs. I don't feel they belong, because of their weak strength of schedule and so on.

However, it has been talked about by major media publications, Matt Daughtery of Sportsnetwork, many, many poster on AGS, and basically the whole country, so it is silly not to include them in the discussion, especially considering the lack of teams at 8-3 or better this year.

I hope they don't make it, but they just might. And you need to crawl out from under that bridge you been living under and definitely read a little more.

[CrunchGriz]

This can be argued 'til we are all blue in the face. It is politics, I believe the cats draw more fans than PSU so that may work in our favor. The selection commitee can use any logic that they want but a big consideration is who draws the fans.

Sorry to be the one to rain on this half of your argument, but if either the 'Cats or PSU get in at 7-4, the number of fans your draw will have negligible effect in the decision.

Why? Because both teams will almost certainly be on the road for the entire playoffs to higher rated teams' locations.

This is especially true for the first two games and considering the likeliest "West" bracket now that includes either PSU or MSU, with MSU/PSU on the road in the game on one side of the foursome and UM and McNeese on the other side. UM is UM, and draws like no one else in the tournament, and McNeese is annually one of the highest home draws in the tournament.

Even if McNeese and MSU/PSU both somehow win in the first round on the road, McNeese will get the second-round game.

If you're arguing about how well a school's fanbase travels, MSU hasn't proven that they travel any better than any other school out there, as far as I can tell, and I don't think the committee is going to take this into consideration at all anyway.

[old wise one]

Citizen Griz,

You really have no clue do you.

Let's say for your arguments sake that MSU gets in at 7-4 and goes on the road to say, um, Youngstown and wins. Also, McNeese comes up to Missoula in the first round and wins as well. In this scenario we both can agree that UM and Youngstown would be the "seeded" teams, right? Now with MSU and McNeese both knocking off the seeded teams, the host for the second round game would be determined by the size of each teams bid, since there would no longer be seeded teams in the west bracket. A scenario I think you should be familiar with. In 2004, the Griz were the benefit of having a higher seeded team lose in the first round(I believe S. Illinois to EWU) thus allowing the Griz homfield throughout the playoffs, even though they were the 4 seed.

Now back to the discussion. Possible playoff teams were sent packets from the NCAA to request their bids(for all 3 rounds) on the 25th of Oct, and were due back to the NCAA on November 10th. Now I assume, and am probably correct, that you have not seen the size of MSU's or McNeese's bid amounts, so you cannot say for SURE who would get the second round game in this scenario. Neither can I, but to make a blanket statement that McNeese would host the second round game is false.

[SonomaCat]

If you're arguing about how well a school's fanbase travels, MSU hasn't proven that they travel any better than any other school out there, as far as I can tell, and I don't think the committee is going to take this into consideration at all anyway.

Have you been to many MSU road games?

But that's somewhat beside the point, as I am pretty sure nobody travels very well during the playoffs, given that nobody can afford to buy tickets on 6 days' notice ... but even if a school's fanbase travelled incredibly well ... what impact would have on whether or not they could land a home game?

[CrunchGriz]

Citizen Griz,

You really have no clue do you.

Let's say for your arguments sake that MSU gets in at 7-4 and goes on the road to say, um, Youngstown and wins. Also, McNeese comes up to Missoula in the first round and wins as well. In this scenario we both can agree that UM and Youngstown would be the "seeded" teams, right? Now with MSU and McNeese both knocking off the seeded teams, the host for the second round game would be determined by the size of each teams bid, since there would no longer be seeded teams in the west bracket. A scenario I think you should be familiar with. In 2004, the Griz were the benefit of having a higher seeded team lose in the first round(I believe S. Illinois to EWU) thus allowing the Griz homfield throughout the playoffs, even though they were the 4 seed.

Now back to the discussion. Possible playoff teams were sent packets from the NCAA to request their bids(for all 3 rounds) on the 25th of Oct, and were due back to the NCAA on November 10th. Now I assume, and am probably correct, that you have not seen the size of MSU's or McNeese's bid amounts, so you cannot say for SURE who would get the second round game in this scenario. Neither can I, but to make a blanket statement that McNeese would host the second round game is false.

Geez, snide little bugger, aren't you?

Well, in the first place, I'm not Citizen Griz. I believe you're the one who was earlier harping on reading comprehension, so maybe you ought to reread who posted on this.

Second, I'm well aware that games other than the seeded games are based primarily on the amount of the bid made. Maybe making a "blanket" statement that MSU wouldn't get a home game against McNeese is a bit rash, but I thnk I'd be willing to bet that McNeese would outbid MSU, at least based on their track records of drawing fans. I'll back off the guarantee, but if I were a 'Cat fan I wouldn't exactly be warming up my Carhartts in anticipation of a home game, at least through the first two rounds.

[SonomaCat]

Maybe making a "blanket" statement that MSU wouldn't get a home game against McNeese is a bit rash, but I thnk I'd be willing to bet that McNeese would outbid MSU, at least based on their track records of drawing fans. I'll back off the guarantee, but if I were a 'Cat fan I wouldn't exactly be warming up my Carhartts in anticipation of a home game, at least through the first two rounds.

You say that realizing that MSU outdrew McNeese by an average of about 3,000 per game this season, right?

[tetoncat]

The point i just don't see being presented is that the selection committee should pick the best team at this point in the season. Obviously what you did the whole year counts by determining records, but a team that has won 6 or 7 games in a row should get preference over a team with a similar record that has lost 2 or 3 of their last 4-5. Maybe that is determined by them playing better teams at the end, but historically a team that has lost a few at the end does not do very well in the playoffs, vs. a team that is on a roll.

Yes, the cats had some bad losses. They also had injuries and a new QB. They managed to turn things around and win 6 in a row going into this week. That shows something about this team, also the undeafeted road record shows they can play in the playoffs.

[SonomaCat]

And I'm trying to jump on top of the pile as hard as I can ... but nobody even seems to notice.

[CrunchGriz]

If you're arguing about how well a school's fanbase travels, MSU hasn't proven that they travel any better than any other school out there, as far as I can tell, and I don't think the committee is going to take this into consideration at all anyway.

Have you been to many MSU road games?

But that's somewhat beside the point, as I am pretty sure nobody travels very well during the playoffs, given that nobody can afford to buy tickets on 6 days' notice ... but even if a school's fanbase travelled incredibly well ... what impact would have on whether or not they could land a home game?

Good point. I don't think it would make a smidge of a difference, as well it shouldn't. I was merely trying to discern what possible basis the poster had for saying MSU's draw might get them a home game, and covering all the bases, however remote.

And you're right, no team travels great in the I-AA playoffs, probably largely for the reason you stated.

[CrunchGriz]

Maybe making a "blanket" statement that MSU wouldn't get a home game against McNeese is a bit rash, but I thnk I'd be willing to bet that McNeese would outbid MSU, at least based on their track records of drawing fans. I'll back off the guarantee, but if I were a 'Cat fan I wouldn't exactly be warming up my Carhartts in anticipation of a home game, at least through the first two rounds.

You say that realizing that MSU outdrew McNeese by an average of about 3,000 per game this season, right?

Yeah, but MSU also has absolutely no recent history of home games in the playoffs, and McNeese does, so they probably have a much better idea of what to bid.

Aw, heck, the scenario of this discussion is so remote I don't know why we're wasting keystrokes on it. It assumes way too much (including, I must admit, that McNeese will even be in the playoffs, let alone where they'll be slotted).

I think I'm just ready to see how it plays out on the field. By Sunday we'll all know, and all this hypothetical mumbo jumbo will be faded failed forecasts.

Here's to a great game Saturday, and no major injuries!

[SonomaCat]

Aw, heck, the scenario of this discussion is so remote I don't know why we're wasting keystrokes on it. It assumes way too much (including, I must admit, that McNeese will even be in the playoffs, let alone where they'll be slotted).

I think I'm just ready to see how it plays out on the field. By Sunday we'll all know, and all this hypothetical mumbo jumbo will be faded failed forecasts.

Here's to a great game Saturday, and no major injuries!

Agreed ... and I'm still counting on an 8-3 record for the Cats, so all of this hypothetical stuff is (as those poker machines used to read) "for entertainment purposes only."

[twentythreeOh4]

Look, Harbaugh might be crying about wanting to go to the playoffs, but the so-called non-scholarshiped mid-majors have never been invited although they've certainly had undefeated teams in their ranks before. Should we start a list of all the non-scholarshipped football teams whose coaches have complained about not being invited to the playoffs over the yars. Let's see you do it Old wise one. I can think of four off the top of my head. Let's see if you've forgotten more than anybody knows.
The I-AA playoffs were created by and ran by full-scholarshiped schools.

Not sure that is true. Didn't Colgate make the finals a couple years ago and I am quite sure that they do not offer scholarships’.

Not true. Colgate and the other teams in the Patriot Conference teams offer financial aid in the form of "need based grants" -- ie scholarships.

[WyomingGrizFan]

I'd say MSU @ 7 - 4 would be a better selection than a 7 - 4 Eastern Illinois.

[crazycat]

Aw, heck, the scenario of this discussion is so remote I don't know why we're wasting keystrokes on it. It assumes way too much (including, I must admit, that McNeese will even be in the playoffs, let alone where they'll be slotted).

I think I'm just ready to see how it plays out on the field. By Sunday we'll all know, and all this hypothetical mumbo jumbo will be faded failed forecasts.

Here's to a great game Saturday, and no major injuries!

Agreed ... and I'm still counting on an 8-3 record for the Cats, so all of this hypothetical stuff is (as those poker machines used to read) "for entertainment purposes only."

The reason I started this thread was to get people (namely MSU fans) to realize that MSU has a good (better than 50/50) shot at making the playoffs with a loss. The reason I think it's important is because if MSU fans don't think so, then the BSC and its representative won't and if they won't, then the selection committee surely won't.

I've come to the conclusion that I've failed, since aside from a few posters on this board I haven't seen anything from the BSC (as it's doing with PSU) that makes me believe they'll make an attempt to get MSU in the playoffs as an at-large team. Chalk it up to a general feeling of inferiority or apathy. I'm not sure which, probably both.

[catsrback76]

Aw, heck, the scenario of this discussion is so remote I don't know why we're wasting keystrokes on it. It assumes way too much (including, I must admit, that McNeese will even be in the playoffs, let alone where they'll be slotted).

I think I'm just ready to see how it plays out on the field. By Sunday we'll all know, and all this hypothetical mumbo jumbo will be faded failed forecasts.

Here's to a great game Saturday, and no major injuries!

Agreed ... and I'm still counting on an 8-3 record for the Cats, so all of this hypothetical stuff is (as those poker machines used to read) "for entertainment purposes only."

The reason I started this thread was to get people (namely MSU fans) to realize that MSU has a good (better than 50/50) shot at making the playoffs with a loss. The reason I think it's important is because if MSU fans don't think so, then the BSC and its representative won't and if they won't, then the selection committee surely won't.

I've come to the conclusion that I've failed, since aside from a few posters on this board I haven't seen anything from the BSC (as it's doing with PSU) that makes me believe they'll make an attempt to get MSU in the playoffs as an at-large team. Chalk it up to a general feeling of inferiority or apathy. I'm not sure which, probably both.

Forget it. We will win tomorrow and all this is wasted gas. Lets start a thread "How far will we go in the playoffs after ending the season 8-3?"

[Weltercat]

Aw, heck, the scenario of this discussion is so remote I don't know why we're wasting keystrokes on it. It assumes way too much (including, I must admit, that McNeese will even be in the playoffs, let alone where they'll be slotted).

I think I'm just ready to see how it plays out on the field. By Sunday we'll all know, and all this hypothetical mumbo jumbo will be faded failed forecasts.

Here's to a great game Saturday, and no major injuries!

Agreed ... and I'm still counting on an 8-3 record for the Cats, so all of this hypothetical stuff is (as those poker machines used to read) "for entertainment purposes only."

The reason I started this thread was to get people (namely MSU fans) to realize that MSU has a good (better than 50/50) shot at making the playoffs with a loss. The reason I think it's important is because if MSU fans don't think so, then the BSC and its representative won't and if they won't, then the selection committee surely won't.

I've come to the conclusion that I've failed, since aside from a few posters on this board I haven't seen anything from the BSC (as it's doing with PSU) that makes me believe they'll make an attempt to get MSU in the playoffs as an at-large team. Chalk it up to a general feeling of inferiority or apathy. I'm not sure which, probably both.

I for one appreciate your optimism. I don't think most MSU fans are apathetic nor have an inferiority complex. We know quite well that our team win or loose tomorrow could most likely beat half the teams that will make the playoffs. However after seeing a 9-2 Cal Poly sitting at home two years ago and seeing teams like Hampton and Jackson State getting in year after year, we can see the writing on the wall.