2025 Defense outlook

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

The DL looks elite. That sets up everyone else. MSU, in my opinion, looks really good on defense in 2025.

But are they fast

dl doesn't have to be fast....they need to be quick and explosive...short burst more than anything...for all linemen you really look at their 5yd and 10yd speed because that is where they do their work...a guy that can quickly get to the point with strength before the other person on the line, along with body leverage wins the battle...so yeah for them it does matter and can play a huge part......warren sapp....aaron donaldson...john randle....it does play a part

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

It isn't about being fast, it's about being faster. The main thing players need to do in the off season is get faster, stronger and improve technique. It ain't rocket surgery. MSU looks like it will be faster overall on defense next year. And the overall team speed on defense was something that was lacking last year. Obviously, they can't just insert faster players and be better. However, the players they appear to be inserting look faster. Couple that with the excellent coaching at MSU and I think it's reasonable to think the defense will be better.

The DL looks elite. That sets up everyone else. MSU, in my opinion, looks really good on defense in 2025.

Exactly my point. I stated they need to get faster as we got leveraged at times. the young dbs while fast, need to get stronger and mature up...the new safeties need to learn our system and prove they can be as good as the players from last year.....every unit has something they need to work on...i agree we will be good on defense this year.

Is speed at LB more important in a 4 2 5 defense than a typical 4 3. Seems with the 2 LB they are asked to go more side to side.

i respond coming from a viewpoint of I played in a 4-2-5 in college and coached it for a long time as well. it depends on your scheme and what you are trying to do in the 425. Ideally you would like for your lbers to have the speed to go d gap to a gap because that keeps your safeties honest. They don't have to fill the alley as hard because they know the backer will be there, that keeps them from getting sucked up in PA pass. The way we have ran our 425 we use our safeties to fill the alley hard and make up for the lack of speed from our lb crew. That has caused our safeties to protect the edge which has caused them to be a step slow in pass coverage from time to time, hasn't killed us but a good OC if they have the personnel will exploit it. We basically ask our lbers to be pluggers and be an extension of the dl. they do great in that and it pays huge dividends for us. We don't put them in coverage too much so based off our scheme they don't have to have it. It's just a something I look at and say if we increase the speed at lber we can be a defense that could shut people out and render offenses useless. Just a strive for greatness...but we are very good as is and they fit our scheme well and I fully expect our guys to continue to play well and this defense will be really really good.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

fast doesn't mean ****** if your out of position or taking bad angles or even getting bottled up on blocks. Daly does all 3 well, Grebe needs some work but he's usually in the right spot, but he take poor angles and has trouble getting off blocks.... he's also a true freshman so I'll cut him so slack because he played well the majority of the year.

We could always use an upgrade in speed, but speed isn't everything.

actually being fast does mean **** if you are out of position because when you are out of position your speed makes up for it and will allow you to make plays even when out of position. if you take a bad angle, if you're fast then you can over come that bad angel because of your speed. if you diagnose plays slow you can get there at the same time as the guy who diagnoses quick but is slower than you because you are fast....being fast makes up for tons of deficiencies. being able to do all those things isn't the easiest thing but when you can outrun the people on the other side of the ball you don't have to be great at all of those things. conversely you don't have to be fast to be good player if you possess all of those other things....it's a sliding scale.....the ones that are fast and can do all of those other things, play on Sundays.

Nothing is everything...people would love an upgrade in strength, but it isn't everything....people would love an upgrade in size, but size isn't everything....it's a given there isn't any one trait that is everything....but by god i'll take a fast guy over everything else. speed neutralizes almost any trait you can have on the football field...if you're stronger than me I can get around you and beat you to the point of contact with speed. if i generate enough speed I can counteract your size and weight, that was my claim to fame being a physical cb that was relatively light in the butt. if i'm still learning the plays can be slow before i go because when i go i can outrun everyone or at least catch up to everyone....speed does matter and makes a huge difference....having speed takes 2yd gains and makes them -2yd gains....you ask any coach they will take a guy that can move over a guy that can't.

I've seen a 4.4 40 LB @ 265lbs get beat to the edge more than once because he was out of position, his speed made up for some of it, but a a slower LB in the right position would have made the same or better play. ITS NOT EVERYTHING!

And i've seen countless step slow lbers be late to the play so the safety has to make up for it which in turn causes problems in pass coverage. That's the little things people don't see. People see the safety get beat but don't see that they are holding because they know they have to make up for slow lbers. speed isn't everything no doubt.....i've stated that. but i'd rather have it than not have it.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

fast doesn't mean ****** if your out of position or taking bad angles or even getting bottled up on blocks. Daly does all 3 well, Grebe needs some work but he's usually in the right spot, but he take poor angles and has trouble getting off blocks.... he's also a true freshman so I'll cut him so slack because he played well the majority of the year.

We could always use an upgrade in speed, but speed isn't everything.

actually being fast does mean **** if you are out of position because when you are out of position your speed makes up for it and will allow you to make plays even when out of position. if you take a bad angle, if you're fast then you can over come that bad angel because of your speed. if you diagnose plays slow you can get there at the same time as the guy who diagnoses quick but is slower than you because you are fast....being fast makes up for tons of deficiencies. being able to do all those things isn't the easiest thing but when you can outrun the people on the other side of the ball you don't have to be great at all of those things. conversely you don't have to be fast to be good player if you possess all of those other things....it's a sliding scale.....the ones that are fast and can do all of those other things, play on Sundays.

Nothing is everything...people would love an upgrade in strength, but it isn't everything....people would love an upgrade in size, but size isn't everything....it's a given there isn't any one trait that is everything....but by god i'll take a fast guy over everything else. speed neutralizes almost any trait you can have on the football field...if you're stronger than me I can get around you and beat you to the point of contact with speed. if i generate enough speed I can counteract your size and weight, that was my claim to fame being a physical cb that was relatively light in the butt. if i'm still learning the plays can be slow before i go because when i go i can outrun everyone or at least catch up to everyone....speed does matter and makes a huge difference....having speed takes 2yd gains and makes them -2yd gains....you ask any coach they will take a guy that can move over a guy that can't.

I've seen a 4.4 40 LB @ 265lbs get beat to the edge more than once because he was out of position, his speed made up for some of it, but a a slower LB in the right position would have made the same or better play. ITS NOT EVERYTHING!

what lber was 4.4 @ 265? please give me the name. Not too many lbers that run a 4.4 at 265..that's a DE. the average size of a lber is 244 in the nfl. so it's safe to say that collegiate lbers are about 5-10lbs smaller on avg. so you are looking at a guy that is an outlier at 265lbs playing lber....and even more so a 265lb person running at 4.4. The average speed of an nfl lber is 4.7. I would say without knowing the player that he is a true outlier in every sense of the word, he also is probably lacking in various other areas and probably isn't that great of a player overall...but he was abnormally big and abnormally fast so they put him on the field thinking they could make him a player. I don't know the player but that's what I'm thinking.

yes you are correctly speed isn't everything. I stated that there is not one trait that is everything. but I like many other coaches will take a fast guy that I can coach up over a slow guy that has instincts. why? because at a certain point pure ability takes over and your 4.7 doesn't compare to the explosiveness of a 4.3. Also understand that there are guys that run great but don't play at the speed that run. so that has to factor in as well.

[Catsrgrood]

BBT, take a break.

[TomCat88]

BBT, take a break.

Why should BBT do that? His posts are informative.

[ilovethecats]

BBT, take a break.

Why should BBT do that? His posts are informative.

I was thinking the same. And he can't make his point any clearer so I don't see what the issue is.

[wbtfg]

BBT, take a break.

Why should BBT do that? His posts are informative.

I was thinking the same. And he can't make his point any clearer so I don't see what the issue is.

[tetoncat]

The DL looks elite. That sets up everyone else. MSU, in my opinion, looks really good on defense in 2025.

But are they fast

dl doesn't have to be fast....they need to be quick and explosive...short burst more than anything...for all linemen you really look at their 5yd and 10yd speed because that is where they do their work...a guy that can quickly get to the point with strength before the other person on the line, along with body leverage wins the battle...so yeah for them it does matter and can play a huge part......warren sapp....aaron donaldson...john randle....it does play a part

It was sarcasm,

[tetoncat]

BBT, take a break.

Why should BBT do that? His posts are informative.

Why are they more informative than other ex players on the board. All of them have opinions that they inject their personal experiences into. Many on here see these prospects a lot at practices and scrimmages. They have seen how they and players before them have stacked up to FCS. He has interesting input, but it isn't necessarily the gospel

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

The DL looks elite. That sets up everyone else. MSU, in my opinion, looks really good on defense in 2025.

But are they fast

dl doesn't have to be fast....they need to be quick and explosive...short burst more than anything...for all linemen you really look at their 5yd and 10yd speed because that is where they do their work...a guy that can quickly get to the point with strength before the other person on the line, along with body leverage wins the battle...so yeah for them it does matter and can play a huge part......warren sapp....aaron donaldson...john randle....it does play a part

It was sarcasm,

i know

[tetoncat]

The DL looks elite. That sets up everyone else. MSU, in my opinion, looks really good on defense in 2025.

But are they fast

dl doesn't have to be fast....they need to be quick and explosive...short burst more than anything...for all linemen you really look at their 5yd and 10yd speed because that is where they do their work...a guy that can quickly get to the point with strength before the other person on the line, along with body leverage wins the battle...so yeah for them it does matter and can play a huge part......warren sapp....aaron donaldson...john randle....it does play a part

It was sarcasm,

i know

It was a long response if so.

I'm just giving you a hard time and trying to inject some levity.

[Catsrgrood]

BBT, take a break.

Why should BBT do that? His posts are informative.

I guess I’m in the minority here.

I like most of his posts. They are informative, generally. He has more knowledge on the X’s and O’s than I do (a lot of people here do) and I absolutely appreciate that. I enjoy those posts. He’s one of the more knowledgeable posters on here, no doubt.

But eventually it comes off as lecturing. And I grow tired of that I guess. People have differing opinions, that’s what’s great about forums, there is no need to beat a dead horse and reply to every single slight counter argument and reiterate what’s been said over and over. IMO, it just comes off as; “I’m not going to quit until you give up or agree with me”.

Maybe that’s not the intent, but that’s how it looks to me at times.

But…. That’s just me. I’ll sit back and read what I want and scroll past what I don’t and keep to myself.
All is good.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

BBT, take a break.

Why should BBT do that? His posts are informative.

Why are they more informative than other ex players on the board. All of them have opinions that they inject their personal experiences into. Many on here see these prospects a lot at practices and scrimmages. They have seen how they and players before them have stacked up to FCS. He has interesting input, but it isn't necessarily the gospel

so 1. i should take a break. because why? everyone else gets to constantly post their thoughts. many of them are ill informed and just flat out wrong but I have a view that is vastly differently from many but i'm told that i need to take a break? i never have said what i post is gospel and since i've been here i haven't seen anyone told to stop posting unless they are way left. but for some reason i'm told i need to stop posting and because people appreciate reading what i post my posts are know deemed gospel? whether you agree, appreciate, or dislike it why should i stop? have i been mean, ugly, inflammatory?

2. nobody has said i'm any more informative than anyone else. yet again i'm being told to stop posting, why? i haven't seen ex player being told to stop posting. why am i being told to stop posting. i don't get it. once again i haven't been mean, ugly or called anyone out their name. everything i've said whether positive or negative i have tried to explain why i'm saying what i'm saying so that no one feels that i AM in fact being mean or ugly.

3. i have seen posters literally call players out their name, tell people not to support current players, make accusations on the character of current and former players and no one has told them to "take a break" but i'm just talking football and make football based analysis yet i'm told to "take a break" why? what have i said that says i need to take a break...again look at how people on this board have attack former players and current players.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

The DL looks elite. That sets up everyone else. MSU, in my opinion, looks really good on defense in 2025.

But are they fast

dl doesn't have to be fast....they need to be quick and explosive...short burst more than anything...for all linemen you really look at their 5yd and 10yd speed because that is where they do their work...a guy that can quickly get to the point with strength before the other person on the line, along with body leverage wins the battle...so yeah for them it does matter and can play a huge part......warren sapp....aaron donaldson...john randle....it does play a part

It was sarcasm,

i know

It was a long response if so.

I'm just giving you a hard time and trying to inject some levity.

i'm a long winded person by nature....every story is short story long....lol

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

BBT, take a break.

Why should BBT do that? His posts are informative.

I guess I’m in the minority here.

I like most of his posts. They are informative, generally. He has more knowledge on the X’s and O’s than I do (a lot of people here do) and I absolutely appreciate that. I enjoy those posts. He’s one of the more knowledgeable posters on here, no doubt.

But eventually it comes off as lecturing. And I grow tired of that I guess. People have differing opinions, that’s what’s great about forums, there is no need to beat a dead horse and reply to every single slight counter argument and reiterate what’s been said over and over. IMO, it just comes off as; “I’m not going to quit until you give up or agree with me”.

Maybe that’s not the intent, but that’s how it looks to me at times.

But…. That’s just me. I’ll sit back and read what I want and scroll past what I don’t and keep to myself.
All is good.

to be totally honest... you are correct...i'm a competitor by nature...i will debate you into the ground...it's a vice of mine...i know this. I don't every debate to make a person agree with me...but if you respond i'm going to respond in kind. i don't see a problem with that. because just as you say that i can not respond to the post, they can not respond to my post. yet they respond to mine, so i respond as well. if you have the time so do i. there is no quit over here, if you going to keep coming at me i'm going to keep coming at you...i will not get angry i will not use swear words, i will not personally attack you, i will always stay on topic...but if you keep at me i will keep at you....i don't see a problem with that...again just like you say i can not respond, they can leave me alone....they don't so i don't.

[TomCat88]

BBT, take a break.

Why should BBT do that? His posts are informative.

Why are they more informative than other ex players on the board. All of them have opinions that they inject their personal experiences into. Many on here see these prospects a lot at practices and scrimmages. They have seen how they and players before them have stacked up to FCS. He has interesting input, but it isn't necessarily the gospel

I never said he's more informative. I just said he's informative and logical and then asked why he should take a break. If he's informative and he isn't being an a-hole, I don't see why anyone wants him to take a break.

[Cats and Dogs]

How good will the defense need to be in order to support the potential early season struggles on offense with a new QB, coordinator, 6 new starters,
etc? I would say they have to be better than last year and might need to be significantly better. The nucleus is there but a couple transfers with starter rotation potential at LB, DE, Corner, would be nice. D might have to be close to lock down for a return trip to the finals.

[TomCat88]

BBT, take a break.

Why should BBT do that? His posts are informative.

I guess I’m in the minority here.

I like most of his posts. They are informative, generally. He has more knowledge on the X’s and O’s than I do (a lot of people here do) and I absolutely appreciate that. I enjoy those posts. He’s one of the more knowledgeable posters on here, no doubt.

But eventually it comes off as lecturing. And I grow tired of that I guess. People have differing opinions, that’s what’s great about forums, there is no need to beat a dead horse and reply to every single slight counter argument and reiterate what’s been said over and over. IMO, it just comes off as; “I’m not going to quit until you give up or agree with me”.

Maybe that’s not the intent, but that’s how it looks to me at times.

But…. That’s just me. I’ll sit back and read what I want and scroll past what I don’t and keep to myself.
All is good.

By coming on this board, I feel like I'm soliciting a response. I don't mind being lectured. I love listening to someone tell me how to do something as long as it isn't unsolicited.

If you make a counter argument, then you're asking for a response. That's just how it works. BBT often says, we can agree to disagree. I usually tell someone, if I'm getting tired of the back and forth, that they can have the last word. Same thing.

Yes, it's sometimes good to skim past some comments and threads.

[MSU01]

How good will the defense need to be in order to support the potential early season struggles on offense with a new QB, coordinator, 6 new starters,
etc? I would say they have to be better than last year and might need to be significantly better. The nucleus is there but a couple transfers with starter rotation potential at LB, DE, Corner, would be nice. D might have to be close to lock down for a return trip to the finals.

Given that the first two opponents next year are Oregon and South Dakota State, I think the answer is very good! After that the schedule lightens up considerably and MSU will have a lot more margin for error in terms of allowing younger and more inexperienced players in new roles to get up to speed. MSU just signed more freshman recruits today to go with their very large signing class from December, so I think at this point it's unrealistic to expect too many more incoming transfers until additional roster spots potentially come open during the spring portal window.