Volleyball

oldcatfan · Post by **oldcatfan** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:03 am

I wouldn't be so quick to laud the praises of Jerry Wagner. He didn't recruit any of the present players and their record is nothing to brag about. It's probably what I would expect from a team with so many returners. He didn't make a real big impression at Gonzaga--they were 10-21 the only year he was there. We didn't get the short end of the stick in that coaching deal...Miya is a good coach. This team just has absolutely NO leaders. Volleyball is a sport that cannot be coach-directed during play like basketball. The Bobcats need a leader, not a new coach.

MAGOO · Post by **MAGOO** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:19 am

I think we've been around the barn in nearly every sport as to the importance of good coaches, athletic ability, and team leaders. All are important, and without all three consistent winning will never occur. Coaches look for, and covet, team leaders as well as good athletes. If we don't have team leaders, maybe the recruiting or leadership development skills of the coaching staff are lacking.

vike_king · Post by **vike_king** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:52 am

oldcatfan wrote:I wouldn't be so quick to laud the praises of Jerry Wagner. He didn't recruit any of the present players and their record is nothing to brag about.

I would argue that since he didn't recruit any of these players he has done a good job of coaching. Taking a team that has been the screaming poops that last few years and making them better with the existing talent smacks of good coaching.

oldcat · Post by **oldcat** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:39 pm

hold on everybody, Jerry Wagner leaving MSU was the WORST thing that could have happened to Bobcat Volleyball. As a former athlete who played for Jerry and Miya...if it wasn't for Jerry, I wouldn't have stayed. It was Jerry and Dave Gantt that recruited me. Does anybody remember games when Jerry and Miya coached together....well let me remind you...1.who was always involved in the games...Jerry 2.who was up out of their seat actually coaching and not sitting down with a scowled look....Jerry. It seems to me that volleyball isn't as fun as it used to be when Jerry was there. Jerry was the best thing for MSU volleyball. He kept everybody wanting to get better. He loves the sport, not saying Miya doesn't, but let me tell you it looks as if it was much more fun with Jerry on the bench.
Also, if you've ever stayed after a volleyball game to talk to the players, you don't see Miya in the crowd saying a simple hello to parents. After last saturday's match against the GRIZ...every player couldnt' wait to say hello to Jerry and give him a big hug....not to mention their parents were right next them. Where was Miya...walking out of the gym with the same scowl. huh, that's real fun to play for.
Another bit of information, Jerry wagner has recruited probably 90% of the players on the MSU team....players excluded: the setters. Don't you think Miya should have seen the writing on the wall...when Kamber was a Junior, they should have been preparing somebody to step in and take over. We never saw those weaknesses come through in the other positions, which were under Jerry's control. As far as Jerry at Missoula, I can bet you money that if that team doesn't make the tourney this season they won't be missing out next year and the year after. I bet you will see UM in the tourney as long as Jerry is there.
Bottom Line: MSU's biggest mistake:letting Jerry Wagner go, it's second biggest mistake: making Miya the head coach.

For those of you who would like to continue on about what a great coach Miya is: play for her, I bet you change your mind. I could go on a lot more but I'll just stop there.

oldcat · Post by **oldcat** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:50 pm

oldcatfan, your comment on a leader and not a new coach...
please... there is plenty of leadership. almost any one of those girls could be put in a situation in which they would automatically step up and be a leader. that is all they have going for them. you can't tell me that kandice or patti or any other of the starters don't have leadership. lack of confidence on the setters part??? yeah, I'd agree. but understand that as a setter and you are told that you suck every other day, it's going to hard to think that your good enough. all i can do is roll my eyes at some of these comments.

oldcat · Post by **oldcat** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:56 pm

also, oldcatfan, volleyball is all strategy. you say volleyball cannot be coach-directed during play....you've got to be kidding me. strategy changes after the first play....

UM has returners....ya so do we....we have just as many returners as them. believe me, i know!! so saying jerry didn't do very well at Gonzaga as an assistant. not his fault. but, the griz have kicked our ass twice now. that is something to say...especially when jerry has caoched all of the starters on the MSU team. he has had his um players since july??? and look what he's done. i'd say msu did get the short end of the stick....Jerry is a better coach. the records prove it. and i bet that some of the msu players would agree.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:06 pm

oldcat: I know this isn't fair to single you out, so don't feel as though I am speaking only to you (but your situation is a perfect example).

Since you have already identified yourself as a former v-ball player (which is good to give credibility to what you say), why not go all the way and just let people know who you are? In that way, your opinion has a huge amount of credibility and is grounded in the knowledge that it is a very real person saying it as opposed to merely a username on a website.

Again ... feel free to ignore this post if you wish ... but in my perfect world, we would all use our real names, and then we would spend less time second-guessing user's motives and instead know exactly who they are and better respect what they have to say. But until everybody is using their real names, I certainly can't come down too hard on anyone else for not doing so.

But when it comes to being critical of someone else, the more credibility a poster has, the more impact their statements can make. Otherwise, it just gets lumped into the static of bulletin board griping.

And I guess it would be most appropriate for me to proactively state that this same statement of my opinion applies to everyone.

urcrackinmeup · Post by **urcrackinmeup** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:16 pm

I think if she has close ties to people still in the program, it could hurt them if she identifies herself. She doesn't sound like a griper, just adding her opinion. I, for one, appreciate it and have heard similar feedback.

oldcat · Post by **oldcat** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:22 pm

if you feel it is better... this kamber.

i hope that gives my OPINION some credibility. i have been watching this site for a couple years now and i couldn't not just sit back and say nothing to this post. if my opinion offends anybody...i am sorry, but we're all entitiled. my intentions are good, but Jerry deserves the credit he was never given.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:23 pm

urcrackinmeup wrote:I think if she has close ties to people still in the program, it could hurt them if she identifies herself. She doesn't sound like a griper, just adding her opinion. I, for one, appreciate it and have heard similar feedback.

I certainly wasn't faulting her for speaking out or adding her insights. I just wish that everybody would express their opinions with full transparency. But as I said, when most everybody else is posting anonymously, it is hard to be one of the few that doesn't.

But from a high-level perspective (and this statement has nothing to do specifically with this thread, but is rather speaking to many other instances), I don't really buy the idea that anyone should be expressing derogatory opinions about other people, but should be shielded from accountability for those statements. As I said, in my perfect world, everybody would be accountable for everything they say. But that's not the world in which we operate right now. Transparency is totally voluntary on this board.

And just for clarification, these posts are just my personal opinions -- indepedent of my role as a moderator.

oldcat · Post by **oldcat** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:24 pm

I've said what i wanted to say...and probably too much

good talking to you all. i hope everything is well. i wish you all the best of luck!!! go cats!

Post by **SonomaCat** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:25 pm

oldcat wrote:if you feel it is better... this kamber.

i hope that gives my OPINION some credibility. i have been watching this site for a couple years now and i couldn't not just sit back and say nothing to this post. if my opinion offends anybody...i am sorry, but we're all entitiled. my intentions are good, but Jerry deserves the credit he was never given.

I really admire your willingness to do that. And I hope others take notice and follow your lead (in terms of taking full ownership of their opinions). Thank you.

oldcat · Post by **oldcat** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:30 pm

yep...have a good day!!

4everacatfan · Post by **4everacatfan** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:54 pm

oldcat wrote:hold on everybody, Jerry Wagner leaving MSU was the WORST thing that could have happened to Bobcat Volleyball. As a former athlete who played for Jerry and Miya...if it wasn't for Jerry, I wouldn't have stayed. It was Jerry and Dave Gantt that recruited me. Does anybody remember games when Jerry and Miya coached together....well let me remind you...1.who was always involved in the games...Jerry 2.who was up out of their seat actually coaching and not sitting down with a scowled look....Jerry. It seems to me that volleyball isn't as fun as it used to be when Jerry was there. Jerry was the best thing for MSU volleyball. He kept everybody wanting to get better. He loves the sport, not saying Miya doesn't, but let me tell you it looks as if it was much more fun with Jerry on the bench.
Also, if you've ever stayed after a volleyball game to talk to the players, you don't see Miya in the crowd saying a simple hello to parents. After last saturday's match against the GRIZ...every player couldnt' wait to say hello to Jerry and give him a big hug....not to mention their parents were right next them. Where was Miya...walking out of the gym with the same scowl. huh, that's real fun to play for.
Another bit of information, Jerry wagner has recruited probably 90% of the players on the MSU team....players excluded: the setters. Don't you think Miya should have seen the writing on the wall...when Kamber was a Junior, they should have been preparing somebody to step in and take over. We never saw those weaknesses come through in the other positions, which were under Jerry's control. As far as Jerry at Missoula, I can bet you money that if that team doesn't make the tourney this season they won't be missing out next year and the year after. I bet you will see UM in the tourney as long as Jerry is there.
Bottom Line: MSU's biggest mistake:letting Jerry Wagner go, it's second biggest mistake: making Miya the head coach.

For those of you who would like to continue on about what a great coach Miya is: play for her, I bet you change your mind. I could go on a lot more but I'll just stop there.

Just a question oldcat why when Gantt gave the job up did Miya get it over Jerry? Did Gantt endorse one over the other or were they looking for a female head coach not knocking women but just asking if Jerry is a better coach why did he not get the job over Miya?
If I am correct they both were assistants under gantt at that time. I have to agree the way Miya got rid of Jerry almost looked like to an outsider that she was threatend by his "better" relationship with the players. JMO

spike · Post by **spike** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:09 pm

oldcatfan wrote:I wouldn't be so quick to laud the praises of Jerry Wagner. He didn't recruit any of the present players and their record is nothing to brag about. It's probably what I would expect from a team with so many returners. He didn't make a real big impression at Gonzaga--they were 10-21 the only year he was there. We didn't get the short end of the stick in that coaching deal...Miya is a good coach. This team just has absolutely NO leaders. Volleyball is a sport that cannot be coach-directed during play like basketball. The Bobcats need a leader, not a new coach.

There are plenty of leaders on the team...but when you are being called out or are expected to call other players out why should you try and lead when you are expected to follow. There is so much that goes on behind closed doors that...well just ask Kamber. When everyone is afraid to make a mistake how can you relax on the court. I know for a fact that many of those girls past and present have tried to lead and have just thrown their hands up in frustration. Remember the coach has the last word. More to follow after the season. In regards to oldcatfan and the U of M record...it is not the record that is impressive (although it is already better than last year) it is how those girls play. Took Sac to 5. They look like they are having fun and do not worry when they make a mistake.

oldcat · Post by **oldcat** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:44 pm

i dont' know what happened on the hiring of miya. i didn't have any inside info...all i know is that jerry got royally screwed...and i have my speculations of title IX issues. why he was 'let go', i highly doubt it's because he wasn't a good enough coach.

regarding how the um girls play...they love it. you can tell. jerry is so empowering to play for. players make mistakes and jerrys players understand that they aren't going to get pulled or benched for making and error. nobody's perfect.

i think if the girls want to have a chance, they have to remember they have to play for each other, not to please a coach. that's the only way it will work or the pressure and lack of confidence will completely crumple the heart of this team....not their friendships, i think that is what is keeping them together. i haven't had much contact with the girls other than kandice, but i love those girls to death. i have played with all of the starters...except the setters. they've got what it takes, i just hope their lack of confidence hasn't got them.

MAGOO · Post by **MAGOO** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:23 pm

I'm convinced; we need to have a coaching change in the VB program. The K girls have lived and breathed vb all their lives, and they know a good coach when they see one --- and vise versa. Commander in Chief Fields needs to get the word.

couloir41 · Post by **couloir41** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:50 pm

back to the identification issue...

if you are going to badger someone into identifying themselves when they post sensitive information then you need to be consistant...for example...

why didn't you request old wise one to identify himself...(unless you did and i missed it)...owo often posts info that is sensitive to the cat program...and i don't believe you have ever challenged him/her...and there are many others who have posted who should have identified under your criteria...so i expect you to be more vigilant and more fair in your demand for complete transparency...

ready fire aim...

Post by **SonomaCat** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:02 pm

couloir41 wrote:back to the identification issue...

if you are going to badger someone into identifying themselves when they post sensitive information then you need to be consistant...for example...

why didn't you request old wise one to identify himself...(unless you did and i missed it)...owo often posts info that is sensitive to the cat program...and i don't believe you have ever challenged him/her...and there are many others who have posted who should have identified under your criteria...so i expect you to be more vigilant and more fair in your demand for complete transparency...

ready fire aim...

I wasn't trying to badger anyone (as I hope the way I wrote it would show) ... and I hope it wasn't taken that way (and apologize to Kamber for not being more clear in my writing if it was).

And my comments earlier in this thread, I thought, spoke to quite a large group of posters.

oldcat: I know this isn't fair to single you out, so don't feel as though I am speaking only to you (but your situation is a perfect example).

.... And I guess it would be most appropriate for me to proactively state that this same statement of my opinion applies to everyone

And I'm not sure that I made a "demand" for transparency.

But until everybody is using their real names, I certainly can't come down too hard on anyone else for not doing so.

I actually was intrigued by what she was saying, and legitimately believe that her real name gives weight to what she is saying that her words might not otherwise have. I wasn't trying to berate her or put her down in any way. Quite the opposite.

I wasn't taking sides in this argument ... so please don't assume that I was. In fact, if I was to now take a side, it would be leaning strongly towards what Kamber said ... for the very reason that she was willing to put her name to her words. I will always believe a person much more willingly in that situation.

Most importantly, I admire the precedent that was established in this thread by Kamber, and I hope that others follow that lead. She set the bar quite high, and I hope everyone else realizes that and strives to match it.

cat92 · Post by **cat92** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:36 pm

Appreciate the fact that a former student-athlete has the courage to put their name with their words. Ironically, I have sort of witnessed a little of what has been mentioned. Any thoughts on the current assistants and their impact on the program?