Kusek says, "Not so fast you Kramer-Haters".

bobcatgrad2005 · Post by **bobcatgrad2005** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:33 pm

Billings/ Missoula... Same town right?

Sorry, not sure were I got Missoula out of that article.

Cledus · Post by **Cledus** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:50 pm

I'll be the first to admit everything Kramer has done for the program. That has never been in question and I've never disputed any of that. After the 10-7 win, I proudly declared how Kramer had immortalized himself in Cats history.

Then the afterglow wore off.

All of the offensive and defensive problems so many people speak of on this board can be traced to coaching. There's one man at the top of that chain.

Earle Solomonson tried running in a passing conference. He tried imposing his will on everyone else when it's he who wouldn't, and couldn't, adapt and overcome. He tried recruiting out of places in the Midwest and Midatlantic where we had no history. Because of Earle, the Cats lost the Butte Connection. And yet, he was allowed to stay until the damage was irreparable. Part of Earle's legacy is that you now see Griz chit all over Broadus, and everywhere in Eastern Montana the Cats once dominated.

Cliff couldn't correct it and was kicked to the curb because of it and because he didn't have a personality. Christ, all Groshelle had to do in '97 was keep the damn kickoff in play and the Cats would have ended the streak.

Kramer's done a decent job to present. However, he doesn't have the chops to carry the Cats into the playoffs. I've said this before and I'll continue to say it: IF KRAMER WERE CAPABLE IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED BY NOW. With all the mad talent running through Bozeman year in and year out, there should have been at least one deep playoff run.

Hey Kusek, how about taking the bias out of your reporting? That is, if you want to be fair and show both sides of the story. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:38 pm

Cledus wrote:I'll be the first to admit everything Kramer has done for the program. That has never been in question and I've never disputed any of that. After the 10-7 win, I proudly declared how Kramer had immortalized himself in Cats history.

Then the afterglow wore off.

All of the offensive and defensive problems so many people speak of on this board can be traced to coaching. There's one man at the top of that chain.

Earle Solomonson tried running in a passing conference. He tried imposing his will on everyone else when it's he who wouldn't, and couldn't, adapt and overcome. He tried recruiting out of places in the Midwest and Midatlantic where we had no history. Because of Earle, the Cats lost the Butte Connection. And yet, he was allowed to stay until the damage was irreparable. Part of Earle's legacy is that you now see Griz chit all over Broadus, and everywhere in Eastern Montana the Cats once dominated.

Cliff couldn't correct it and was kicked to the curb because of it and because he didn't have a personality. Christ, all Groshelle had to do in '97 was keep the damn kickoff in play and the Cats would have ended the streak.

Kramer's done a decent job to present. However, he doesn't have the chops to carry the Cats into the playoffs. I've said this before and I'll continue to say it: IF KRAMER WERE CAPABLE IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED BY NOW. With all the mad talent running through Bozeman year in and year out, there should have been at least one deep playoff run.

Hey Kusek, how about taking the bias out of your reporting? That is, if you want to be fair and show both sides of the story. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Ummm Kramer has carried us into the Playoffs twice so far in 5 years along with 3 Conference Championships the last 4 years. We are leaps and bounds ahead of where we used to be and KRAMER deserves all of the credit.

BobcatOninetails · Post by **BobcatOninetails** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:51 pm

I think too many members of BN are panicking. Lets see how good this team looks in mid-October then we can pick up the "fire Kramer" talk. Six starters out with injuries isn't helping anything and would make most major programs more than shaky. I do think Kusek is an idiot but one game into the conference season isn't the time to start worrying and he is right for pointing this out.

Egg Salad · Post by **Egg Salad** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:04 pm

Cledus wrote:
Hey Kusek, how about taking the bias out of your reporting? That is, if you want to be fair and show both sides of the story. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I didn't see any bias in it.

Cledus · Post by **Cledus** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:13 pm

Ummm Kramer has carried us into the Playoffs twice so far in 5 years along with 3 Conference Championships the last 4 years. We are leaps and bounds ahead of where we used to be and KRAMER deserves all of the credit.

Yeah, I know. I meant to say playoff wins. And thanks for reminding me the Cats beat the Griz 3 of the last 4 years.

bobcatmaniac · Post by **bobcatmaniac** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:50 pm

bcats · Post by **bcats** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:16 pm

Good to see some people still have faith in this season turning around.

bcats · Post by **bcats** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:19 pm

CARDIAC_CATS wrote:
Cledus wrote:I'll be the first to admit everything Kramer has done for the program. That has never been in question and I've never disputed any of that. After the 10-7 win, I proudly declared how Kramer had immortalized himself in Cats history.

Then the afterglow wore off.

All of the offensive and defensive problems so many people speak of on this board can be traced to coaching. There's one man at the top of that chain.

Earle Solomonson tried running in a passing conference. He tried imposing his will on everyone else when it's he who wouldn't, and couldn't, adapt and overcome. He tried recruiting out of places in the Midwest and Midatlantic where we had no history. Because of Earle, the Cats lost the Butte Connection. And yet, he was allowed to stay until the damage was irreparable. Part of Earle's legacy is that you now see Griz chit all over Broadus, and everywhere in Eastern Montana the Cats once dominated.

Cliff couldn't correct it and was kicked to the curb because of it and because he didn't have a personality. Christ, all Groshelle had to do in '97 was keep the damn kickoff in play and the Cats would have ended the streak.

Kramer's done a decent job to present. However, he doesn't have the chops to carry the Cats into the playoffs. I've said this before and I'll continue to say it: IF KRAMER WERE CAPABLE IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED BY NOW. With all the mad talent running through Bozeman year in and year out, there should have been at least one deep playoff run.

Hey Kusek, how about taking the bias out of your reporting? That is, if you want to be fair and show both sides of the story. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Ummm Kramer has carried us into the Playoffs twice so far in 5 years along with 3 Conference Championships the last 4 years. We are leaps and bounds ahead of where we used to be and KRAMER deserves all of the credit.

We didn't win them outright. We lost in the playoffs. The most we have ever won is 7 games. If we hadn't let teams like Portland State beat us when they had no business beating us we would have been outright champs and maybe hosting a playoff game. We were better then and are better now. If Kramer is so great why haven't the big schools made any offers and lured him away. He is a decent recruiter but not a great coach. We have lost 3 bad games to average teams. If we win 2 more games it would be a blessing. Given the current state of the program he needs to go and hope we can get Van Diest.

WeedKillinCat · Post by **WeedKillinCat** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:32 pm

The blogs in the Gazette on this article is fairly active....Mostly Griz fans...

longhorn_22 · Post by **longhorn_22** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:43 pm

WeedKillinCat wrote:The blogs in the Gazette on this article is fairly active....Mostly Griz fans...

Mostly griz fans because myself, and many Cat fans are tired of reading all of the non-moderated BS that is posted over there. It gets so tiring reading all the posts by the griz fans in Billings.

bozbobcat · Post by **bozbobcat** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:19 pm

I'm not taking any stock in what this guy has to say. He says, "not so fast Kramer haters" when in a very similar situation a few months ago, his article was titled "Durham needs to go." This s.o.b needs to stick to rodeo and leave what he doesn't know about the Bobcats out of his articles. He knows as much about MSU as I know about engineering mechanics. (For those who forgot, I study history and education.) So he should just do all of us, including himself a favor, and stop writing.

G.W.Bush · Post by **G.W.Bush** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:28 pm

CARDIAC_CATS wrote:Ummm Kramer has carried us into the Playoffs twice so far in 5 years along with 3 Conference Championships the last 4 years. We are leaps and bounds ahead of where we used to be and KRAMER deserves all of the credit.

Does that mean Kramer deserves all the credit for the constant let downs (2-4 versus D-II teams)? Or possibly a 1-10 season? Or losing 45-0 at home? Or will that be the players/coaches fault?

PapaG · Post by **PapaG** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:48 pm

bozbobcat wrote:I'm not taking any stock in what this guy has to say. He says, "not so fast Kramer haters" when in a very similar situation a few months ago, his article was titled "Durham needs to go." This s.o.b needs to stick to rodeo and leave what he doesn't know about the Bobcats out of his articles. He knows as much about MSU as I know about engineering mechanics. (For those who forgot, I study history and education.) So he should just do all of us, including himself a favor, and stop writing.

Durham needed to go. He after what, 16 years, didnt't have as many Big Sky titles as Kramer does now?

Apples and oranges. By your criteria, Kramer deserves at least 10 more years regardless of conference titles.

OldSchoolCat · Post by **OldSchoolCat** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:22 am

CARDIAC_CATS wrote:
Cledus wrote:I'll be the first to admit everything Kramer has done for the program. That has never been in question and I've never disputed any of that. After the 10-7 win, I proudly declared how Kramer had immortalized himself in Cats history.

Then the afterglow wore off.

All of the offensive and defensive problems so many people speak of on this board can be traced to coaching. There's one man at the top of that chain.

Earle Solomonson tried running in a passing conference. He tried imposing his will on everyone else when it's he who wouldn't, and couldn't, adapt and overcome. He tried recruiting out of places in the Midwest and Midatlantic where we had no history. Because of Earle, the Cats lost the Butte Connection. And yet, he was allowed to stay until the damage was irreparable. Part of Earle's legacy is that you now see Griz chit all over Broadus, and everywhere in Eastern Montana the Cats once dominated.

Cliff couldn't correct it and was kicked to the curb because of it and because he didn't have a personality. Christ, all Groshelle had to do in '97 was keep the damn kickoff in play and the Cats would have ended the streak.

Kramer's done a decent job to present. However, he doesn't have the chops to carry the Cats into the playoffs. I've said this before and I'll continue to say it: IF KRAMER WERE CAPABLE IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED BY NOW. With all the mad talent running through Bozeman year in and year out, there should have been at least one deep playoff run.

Hey Kusek, how about taking the bias out of your reporting? That is, if you want to be fair and show both sides of the story. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Ummm Kramer has carried us into the Playoffs twice so far in 5 years along with 3 Conference Championships the last 4 years. We are leaps and bounds ahead of where we used to be and KRAMER deserves all of the credit.

Ummmm A look at the media guides from the 02 & 03 playoff teams shows the majority of the core players RS in 99 or were recruited in 99. That would make them Cliff's recruits. Also, all three "Conference Championships" were shared with two other teams (more than 1/3 the conference). Kinda dilutes things a little.

I'll admit right up front that I have never been much of a Kramer fan. Over the years I have developed a grudging respect for some of what he has done, however. But I keep reading comments about how he "saved" the program, and that just isn't true. The program was in much worse shape when Cliff took over for The Earle (possibly the single worst coach to ever coach a college team in Montana). Cliff's two main faults were that 1) he had little personality (bad for the alum base), and 2) he coached 1 year too long on those bad hips of his (major distraction). But he was a good recruiter and a decent coach. Kramer, on the other hand is the opposite: he is a dynamic motivator who really knows how to fire up the fan and alum base. But his recruiting skills (Lulay excepted) and coaching skills are suspect.

Should Kramer stay or go? I vote on waiting until the end of the season to discuss. It looks like MSU will be able to offer multi-year contracts, which changes the equation a bit. Regardless of what happens the rest of the season, it is time for some serious soul-searching. In the last 30 years we have had two National Titles, and 1 other season with at least 8 wins (1978). Our other two playoff appearances were back-door tiebreakers. That's it. On the bad side, 16 losing seasons, and a 10-20 record with the Griz. Don't know about the rest of you, but this is unacceptable to me.

BHauck's nose · Post by **BHauck's nose** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:03 pm

First of all....nice name Fritz Neighbor. That has to be made up.

Secondly....I don't think anyone is settling for mediocrity at MSU, but I have noticed that a lot of fans and possibly players are getting used to these let downs. It is like we expect bad things to happen. I can't blame the fans because we have been let down numerous times, but we need to change our attitude as a program. We need to be bastards out there that refuse to lose to anybody. I don't know how you instill that into your players and coaches and fans, but it is an attitude you need to have. Sometimes I am too optimistic and I don't like to point the finger, but one thing I have agreed on with a lot of people is that we have no "fire." We seem to be puckered up, afraid to make a mistake. I think we need to come out on Saturday, with some gadget plays, reverses, hafl-back passes. Something that will let the guys cut loose and start enjoying themselves.

Just my opinion.

tetoncat · Post by **tetoncat** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:45 pm

old school. Many on hear have ripped Kramer for gettind rid of so many players when he first started. If that is the case then you still need to give him credit for keeping the ones from that 99 class that would lead to the success in 02 and 03. Also maybe we did share the title with two other teams, who cares, in both cases we won the tiebreaker. Did we lose to teams we should not have, probably but we also beat teams maybe we should not have. The griz obviously lost to some teams in those years as well or we would not have even had the chance to tie. In my book if you win the auto bid you won the important games for that season.

ChiOCat · Post by **ChiOCat** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:23 pm

PapaG wrote:Kusek's thoughts reflect mine. Heck, he may have even 'borrowed' an idea or two.

Kramer gets at least through 2007 from me. If this season continues to go south, next year will be the big one for Kramer's future at MSU in my eyes. I won't be commenting any further on Kramer's status for 2007 unless I see something that I can't let pass without saying something in his support.

I agree! I do see one little thing left out of the article. One little thing named Travis Lulay. Was it Kramer or Lulay that led the team to 3 out of 4? Right now it looks like Lulay may have played the larger part. But, giving the benefit of the doubt, maybe the kinks are still being worked out. But come on, get them out!!!

GrizinWashington · Post by **GrizinWashington** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:46 pm

Fritz Neighbor. That has to be made up

Nope. Knew the guy in high school. Great guy.

BHauck's nose · Post by **BHauck's nose** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:41 pm

[quote="GrizinWashington"][quote]Fritz Neighbor. That has to be made up[/quote]

Nope. Knew the guy in high school. Great guy.[/quote]

I don't believe you...I think that is his stage name. I could handle a first name being Fritz....or a last name being Neighbor. But those two outlandish names together...odds are astronomical.