Hey ya'll - Hey State
Moderators: rtb, kmax, SonomaCat
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neverplayed
- BobcatNation Redshirt
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- Location: Kalispell, Montana
Bay Area Cat........you are off-base
Your assumptions are way off base.
...........................some moderator you are. You are as bad as the totally ignorant.
I originally worked out of Denver, Colorado for another firm, as they were taking hundreds of thousands of dollars out of Montana on every project and using out of state contractors & subcontractors to execute the work.
After being encouraged by numerous clients statewide in Montana - from Glendive & Sidney to Whitefish beginning in 1981 I quit my 18 year association with the Denver firm and started my own firm in Billings (only because it was Montana's largest city and a good centralized base of operations).
I became very successful because of the quality of the work executed solely by Montana based contractors & subcontractors. My work continiued to be recognized nationally and the benefactors were the Clients I served statewide, including all of the jobs I created in all of the towns I worked.
Personally, I took very little from this supreme effort over a the period from 1981-2002. Because of health reasons I was forced into retirement and since I had several clients in the Flathead Valley, I chose Kalispell.
Currently, I live there very modestly in a small duplex on the south side of town.
I am very concerned about these Out-of-State General Contractors & their Subcontractors coming into the Flathead Valley and literally raping the land with their projects - projects that only benefit themselves and provide no new jobs to local tradesmen. All of the money only goes South & back into California and other States. All you have to do is look at the advertising on the trucks & the license plates - these people are not on vacation!
Unlike so many who are profiting here now and taking the money & running, I am very proud of what I was able to do in the 20+ short years I was in business. I contributed much to the local & State economy - but I now watch almost in horror of what is happening to our fine state.
Then I have to listen to people like you, Bay Area Cat.............it really makes me sick.
...........................some moderator you are. You are as bad as the totally ignorant.
I originally worked out of Denver, Colorado for another firm, as they were taking hundreds of thousands of dollars out of Montana on every project and using out of state contractors & subcontractors to execute the work.
After being encouraged by numerous clients statewide in Montana - from Glendive & Sidney to Whitefish beginning in 1981 I quit my 18 year association with the Denver firm and started my own firm in Billings (only because it was Montana's largest city and a good centralized base of operations).
I became very successful because of the quality of the work executed solely by Montana based contractors & subcontractors. My work continiued to be recognized nationally and the benefactors were the Clients I served statewide, including all of the jobs I created in all of the towns I worked.
Personally, I took very little from this supreme effort over a the period from 1981-2002. Because of health reasons I was forced into retirement and since I had several clients in the Flathead Valley, I chose Kalispell.
Currently, I live there very modestly in a small duplex on the south side of town.
I am very concerned about these Out-of-State General Contractors & their Subcontractors coming into the Flathead Valley and literally raping the land with their projects - projects that only benefit themselves and provide no new jobs to local tradesmen. All of the money only goes South & back into California and other States. All you have to do is look at the advertising on the trucks & the license plates - these people are not on vacation!
Unlike so many who are profiting here now and taking the money & running, I am very proud of what I was able to do in the 20+ short years I was in business. I contributed much to the local & State economy - but I now watch almost in horror of what is happening to our fine state.
Then I have to listen to people like you, Bay Area Cat.............it really makes me sick.
“HE IS RICHEST WHO IS CONTENT WITH THE LEAST, FOR CONTENT IS THE WEALTH OF NATURE.”--SOCRATES
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SonomaCat
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Hmmm. Bored, bitter, and easily sickened by and quick to insult those who point out the inconsistencies in their logic (both me and Bozone, so far). That's no way to go through life (to paraphrase Animal House).
Strangely, despite all of the patting of your own back, you failed to make a case as to how any point that anyone made that was off-base.
Strangely, despite all of the patting of your own back, you failed to make a case as to how any point that anyone made that was off-base.
Last edited by SonomaCat on Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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neverplayed
- BobcatNation Redshirt
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- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 5:45 pm
- Location: Kalispell, Montana
It was only you, Bay Area Cat
..............frankly speaking I found a lot of humor in the comments made by others. I find a lot of humor in nearly everyone's comments.
Since none of you know me or who I am in real life it would be impossible for you to speak objectively about me or my background.
I won't lower myself to your level Bay Area Cat - you are just another Californian, who just doesn't get it!
I remember many years ago sitting in Folsom Stadium (The Home of the University of Colorado) and watching what was supposed to be one of those great match-ups with Nebraska. Colorado was in the process of being humiliated (which was common, back then) by the Huskers, and some Guy from Nebraska, sitting nearby, standing-up and yelling - "Its only a Game Folks - Its only a Game Folks!"
Its only a football game!
Since none of you know me or who I am in real life it would be impossible for you to speak objectively about me or my background.
I won't lower myself to your level Bay Area Cat - you are just another Californian, who just doesn't get it!
I remember many years ago sitting in Folsom Stadium (The Home of the University of Colorado) and watching what was supposed to be one of those great match-ups with Nebraska. Colorado was in the process of being humiliated (which was common, back then) by the Huskers, and some Guy from Nebraska, sitting nearby, standing-up and yelling - "Its only a Game Folks - Its only a Game Folks!"
Its only a football game!
“HE IS RICHEST WHO IS CONTENT WITH THE LEAST, FOR CONTENT IS THE WEALTH OF NATURE.”--SOCRATES
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SonomaCat
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Re: It was only you, Bay Area Cat
Ahh yes, but I am a actually a "real" Montanan, with a long pedigree. So, in the spirit of your posts, you better get out of my state! Of course, that only holds until a Native American makes the same point to my family and sends them packing back to North Dakota, then Wisconsin, then Minnesota, then Europe. That would suck.neverplayed wrote:I won't lower myself to your level Bay Area Cat - you are just another Californian, who just doesn't get it!
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BozoneCat
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This post has delved from talking about football and how Montana State and Kramer suck, into having a more real conversation about the state of the Montana economy and the mindset of many Montanans who fear change and hate Californians.
To point out more consistencies:
BAC is a born-and-bred native small-towner Montanan. Did he lose his "Montanan status" when he moved, and does he have to reapply for licensure when he moves back?
The college down in Boulder is actually Colorado University (CU).
Actually, your first post today was by far the most intelligent and reasoned thing you have posted since coming over here. I don't mean this to be inflammatory, just discussion, but I think you are missing the big picture. I don't think there is anything wrong with you working in Denver and moving to Billings to start your own firm - that is a great thing for our fledgling economy! More businesses means more jobs, plain and simple. This is a capitalistic economy, you know. People here in Montana don't have an unlimited amount of money - if someone else from another state is willing to do a job for less money, most businesses won't hesitate to outsource that job. We aren't talking nickels and dimes here, I am talking jobs where the bids are different by hundreds of thousands of dollars. Most Montanans will support Montanans when it means going to Kenyon Noble to buy paint instead of Home Depot, but when it comes to matters of significant money, most people will go with whoever is cheaper. That is not evil, that is business. I would also argue that many Montana companies do a lot of business in states other than Montana - is that wrong, because I would guess we (Montanans) don't have a good grasp of what other states are all about.
To lay it all out, I agree that I am very concerned about the state of the Montana economy. However, I don't blame this on out-of-state GCs. The economic and tax structure of this state is what keeps these people from basing their businesses out of Montana. When you have little to no incentives for businesses to move/start up/or stay here, it is not hard to understand why our state is where it is. If we could get a decent legislature in place, they wouldn't have to look far to get a good model - Idaho has a great structure, and Wyoming has the biggest state surplus in the country.
To point out more consistencies:
BAC is a born-and-bred native small-towner Montanan. Did he lose his "Montanan status" when he moved, and does he have to reapply for licensure when he moves back?
The college down in Boulder is actually Colorado University (CU).
Actually, your first post today was by far the most intelligent and reasoned thing you have posted since coming over here. I don't mean this to be inflammatory, just discussion, but I think you are missing the big picture. I don't think there is anything wrong with you working in Denver and moving to Billings to start your own firm - that is a great thing for our fledgling economy! More businesses means more jobs, plain and simple. This is a capitalistic economy, you know. People here in Montana don't have an unlimited amount of money - if someone else from another state is willing to do a job for less money, most businesses won't hesitate to outsource that job. We aren't talking nickels and dimes here, I am talking jobs where the bids are different by hundreds of thousands of dollars. Most Montanans will support Montanans when it means going to Kenyon Noble to buy paint instead of Home Depot, but when it comes to matters of significant money, most people will go with whoever is cheaper. That is not evil, that is business. I would also argue that many Montana companies do a lot of business in states other than Montana - is that wrong, because I would guess we (Montanans) don't have a good grasp of what other states are all about.
To lay it all out, I agree that I am very concerned about the state of the Montana economy. However, I don't blame this on out-of-state GCs. The economic and tax structure of this state is what keeps these people from basing their businesses out of Montana. When you have little to no incentives for businesses to move/start up/or stay here, it is not hard to understand why our state is where it is. If we could get a decent legislature in place, they wouldn't have to look far to get a good model - Idaho has a great structure, and Wyoming has the biggest state surplus in the country.
GO CATS GO!!!
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neverplayed
- BobcatNation Redshirt
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- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 5:45 pm
- Location: Kalispell, Montana
I never laid claim to Montana
..............I am only lucky enough to live here and that's all, Bay Area Cat.
I am a native Coloradoan with a relatively short Colorado Pedigree. My parents were from Missouri and Nebraska and theirs from Scotland & Germany. Beyond that I have a verifiable pedigree that dates back to 1456. Currently, there are more than 12,000 family members living worldwide and I have a copy of our family book that proves where all of them live, their families and their professions. The family still has castles on the Rhine and throughout Europe and a genuine family crest.
None of that matters to me - it just makes for good reading and meeting other family members when you travel.
I don't think it matters where you come from as long as you hold yourself to a higher standard and make yourself a credit to the society in which you live. You could live anywhere and contribute to that society in your own way...all you have to do is to live with comittment!
I am a native Coloradoan with a relatively short Colorado Pedigree. My parents were from Missouri and Nebraska and theirs from Scotland & Germany. Beyond that I have a verifiable pedigree that dates back to 1456. Currently, there are more than 12,000 family members living worldwide and I have a copy of our family book that proves where all of them live, their families and their professions. The family still has castles on the Rhine and throughout Europe and a genuine family crest.
None of that matters to me - it just makes for good reading and meeting other family members when you travel.
I don't think it matters where you come from as long as you hold yourself to a higher standard and make yourself a credit to the society in which you live. You could live anywhere and contribute to that society in your own way...all you have to do is to live with comittment!
“HE IS RICHEST WHO IS CONTENT WITH THE LEAST, FOR CONTENT IS THE WEALTH OF NATURE.”--SOCRATES
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SonomaCat
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Re: I never laid claim to Montana
I can't disagree with any of that. I took some sarcasm to get us to this point, but I think we're all on the same page, now. That is, unless the message changes again soon.neverplayed wrote:..............I am only lucky enough to live here and that's all, Bay Area Cat.
I am a native Coloradoan with a relatively short Colorado Pedigree. My parents were from Missouri and Nebraska and theirs from Scotland & Germany. Beyond that I have a verifiable pedigree that dates back to 1456. Currently, there are more than 12,000 family members living worldwide and I have a copy of our family book that proves where all of them live, their families and their professions. The family still has castles on the Rhine and throughout Europe and a genuine family crest.
None of that matters to me - it just makes for good reading and meeting other family members when you travel.
I don't think it matters where you come from as long as you hold yourself to a higher standard and make yourself a credit to the society in which you live. You could live anywhere and contribute to that society in your own way...all you have to do is to live with comittment!
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neverplayed
- BobcatNation Redshirt
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- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 5:45 pm
- Location: Kalispell, Montana
Golfer, my reply
The Out of State Contractors bring their own people & subcontractors primarily to maintain the integrity, cost & sometimes the "Quality Control" of their work.
Most of the time it is done to line their pockets with gold, because they have greater buying power than the the local, small-town Montana resources! Likewise, they better control their costs and substantially increase their profits.
When I lived in Colorado and was associated with a firm there, we brought all of our own people for the reasons stated above, but in the process we also X-ed out many tradesmen from Montana.
The same thing is happening today, and it is pissing-off local people just as much today as it did then. When I started my own firm here in Montana and began to ally myself with local contractors, subcontractors & tradesmen I began to overcome the problems of the past, and get more & more Montana businesses involved, adding jobs and creating new profits.
What I see happening today is bigger, more comprehensive repeat of the past, and particularly those Montanans who have tried to stick it out in hopes that things would get better are all taking it in the shorts!
I think that is very sad!
Most of the time it is done to line their pockets with gold, because they have greater buying power than the the local, small-town Montana resources! Likewise, they better control their costs and substantially increase their profits.
When I lived in Colorado and was associated with a firm there, we brought all of our own people for the reasons stated above, but in the process we also X-ed out many tradesmen from Montana.
The same thing is happening today, and it is pissing-off local people just as much today as it did then. When I started my own firm here in Montana and began to ally myself with local contractors, subcontractors & tradesmen I began to overcome the problems of the past, and get more & more Montana businesses involved, adding jobs and creating new profits.
What I see happening today is bigger, more comprehensive repeat of the past, and particularly those Montanans who have tried to stick it out in hopes that things would get better are all taking it in the shorts!
I think that is very sad!
“HE IS RICHEST WHO IS CONTENT WITH THE LEAST, FOR CONTENT IS THE WEALTH OF NATURE.”--SOCRATES
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neverplayed
- BobcatNation Redshirt
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- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 5:45 pm
- Location: Kalispell, Montana
STATE is the perfect name.................
STATE has a mediocre team that will win a few more games.
Then come Nov. 21, they will meet their end at Washington Grizzly Stadium. STATE will return home to podunk Bozeman City with their tails between their legs.
Then come Nov. 21, they will meet their end at Washington Grizzly Stadium. STATE will return home to podunk Bozeman City with their tails between their legs.
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CARDIAC_CATS
- Golden Bobcat
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I couldn't have said it better myself BozoneCat. That is exactly what is wrong with Montana. Businesses do not want to move to this state because of its economy and tax structure. Until the legislature starts doing something about that, then its going to remain the same.BozoneCat wrote:To lay it all out, I agree that I am very concerned about the state of the Montana economy. However, I don't blame this on out-of-state GCs. The economic and tax structure of this state is what keeps these people from basing their businesses out of Montana. When you have little to no incentives for businesses to move/start up/or stay here, it is not hard to understand why our state is where it is. If we could get a decent legislature in place, they wouldn't have to look far to get a good model - Idaho has a great structure, and Wyoming has the biggest state surplus in the country.
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Cat-theotherwhitemeat
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WYCAT
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kmax
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Re: STATE is the perfect name.................
How is it that you can make solid, educated, logical arguments about topics such as the economy and the state of Montana is several posts and then revert to sounding like BearBAC's inbred cousin? My sincere apologies ahead of time if you indeed suffer from a split personality disorder.neverplayed wrote:STATE has a mediocre team that will win a few more games.
Then come Nov. 21, they will meet their end at Washington Grizzly Stadium. STATE will return home to podunk Bozeman City with their tails between their legs.
“Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be—or to be indistinguishable from—self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time.” -- Neal Stephenson, Cryptonomicon
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Cat-theotherwhitemeat
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Neversaidanythingworthwhile, the date is November 20th.
Also, you sometimes act like a Griz fan yet you've been quoted as saying you don't care who wins.
Also, you sometimes act like a Griz fan yet you've been quoted as saying you don't care who wins.
My avatar does not now, nor has in the past, depict a person of mentally challenged state. If you have a problem with it, please call the U.S. department of Bite my A$$. MTBuff/Administrator.