Griz vs NDSU

[Griznationalist]

It's more than that. I posted above a link to a national story on why NFL and college coaches are coming to Missoula and to clinics elsewhere that Stitt attends to learn his innovations. Here's another piece of insight into it:

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footba ... ens-112114

Your links don't provide insight as to what is innovative. I think lots of people know about the back shoulder throw. At least I hear about it lots and if I hear about it, it must be pretty common knowledge. So others think stitt is innovative, but you've yet to provide an explanation of what was innovative on Saturday. (Other than the no huddle, go for it on fourth - which is neither innovative or explanatory). All I saw was good execution of a rather common offense. Still waiting for the enlightenment.

When was the last time you saw a team go the whole game without huddling and convert four 4th downs into at least 16 new downs? All we need is your answer, and then you will have answered your own question. When?

[Griznationalist]

I'm no offensive guru (or any other kind for that matter) so can someone explain what was innovative about the stitt offense in this game. The only thing I saw that stood out to me was what I thought was a significant number of short passes, mostly over the middle, and under the pass coverage that usually went for anywhere from 6 - 10 yards. There seemed nothing special about the run game nor the downfield passing game other than the receivers did get some separation on the ndsu defenders. I guess the trick play resulting in the fumble was somewhat innovative, but other teams run that type play with relative frequency.

Also, did I miss the "fast paced" part? The offense lined up fairly quickly, but then often were not that quick in actually running the play. I've watched MSU do this for years (as well as some other BSC teams) so what's the big deal? Going for it on 4th down doesn't seem that innovative after watching the number of times, field positions, and required yardages that Cal Poly goes on 4th down. Even the 'Cats go on 4th down albeit a bit more conservatively.

I found stitt's half-time interview interesting when he said the griz had run 45 plays in the first half so ndsu would really be tired in the 4th quarter. Apparently the griz are immune to this phenomenon because ndsu ran 41 plays in the first half. (I can't imagine that a highly conditioned college athlete notices that much difference in 4 plays). Maybe I'm missing something here so feel free to point out what it is.

Thanks in advance for the enlightenment.

Montana did not huddle and converted 4 of 6 fourth down attempts. When was the last time you saw no huddles and the winning team attempting even half that many fourth downs? If you sincerely, genuinely answer the question instead of answering with another question or a rhetorical comeback, the enlightenment will be self-evident. Last time you saw no huddles and the winning team going for it on 6 fourth downs?

I've seen MSU as a winning team that went the whole game with no huddles and win without having to go for it 6 times on 4th down on numerous occasions. Going for it on 4th down is not innovation. It may be gutsy if you can't get a first down in 3 attempts, but it isn't innovative. Case in point is how many times Cal Poly goes on 4th down. I suspect you'll see some of that soon. No huddle is not innovative - as I indicated, MSU has done it for years. Lots of other teams do it as well. I'm still waiting for a credible explanation as to what was innovative about what I saw on Saturday. BTW, seems to me that the definition of an innovative team would be one that could get first downs in 3 rather than 4 downs. Having to "go" on fourth down is not a sign of success. Kudos to the griz for converting on them and having the guts to "go," but, once again, that doesn't define or explain innovation.

You wrote above that you have seen MSU win numerous games without huddling the whole game. Now you are just making stuff up to pretend to not see the unusual angle to Montana's game plan. Did you listen to the ESPN announcers? Have you read why the Minnesota Vikings QB coach came to Missoula to watch and learn? Or how Texas A&M and West Virginia implemented what they learned from Stitt? Look, maybe the Bobcats are the best team in the universe. But you aren't casting yourself in an intelligent light to pretend to be obtuse. We know you really get it and you are just pulling our leg.

[PapaG]

Griznationalist first off makes up some weird post about posters here saying that NDSU is a better team, which nobody said, and now needs validation from Bobcat fans about their amazing new coach who apparently has redefined football on the offensive side of the ball.

My question is why feel the need to do so? Everybody in this thread gave the Griz credit for a big win, yet here he is apparently trying to play the victim and troll for insults toward the Griz.

[Griznationalist]

If you genuinely care, and if you understand offensive formations, the pitch piece of the fly sweep out of the shotgun was invented by Stitt. How could you have watched the game and say you saw nothing new unless you don't understand what you are watching? See link below.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... te-coaches

If you believe the no-huddle, 90-play, 4-for-6 on fourth down conversions was just plain old nothing new, you still can't deny the innovation you saw in the play formation -- unless you are smarter than all the people in the article noted above. True?

[ilovethecats]

he has been quite the football innovator for sure. the fly sweep especially and his takes on it are why he's known in football circles as an offensive mastermind. i expect to see some cool things from that standpoint this year and in the future as long as stitt is the coach.

that said, the griz didn't run any fly sweep yesterday. and stitt said himself that it isn't something he runs often. so people are getting real confused and this will likely turn into another cat griz pissing match. but really...it's pretty simple. stitt is no doubt an offensive innovator. many coaches have said as much. but what he did yesterday is not why he's seen in that light. running a lot of plays, running no huddle, and going for it on 4th down a bunch (win or lose) is not new, is not innovative, and is not what stitt is known for.

he's an amazing coach i think and we'll see a lot from him. we didn't see anything from an offensive standpoint yesterday, and my guess is that was exactly how stitt wanted it...

[Griznationalist]

The fly sweep motion is more important than the fly sweep itself because the defense has to be prepared for the fly sweep when they see the motion. And you saw some of the fly sweep motion on Saturday. Still, no one has mentioned the last time you saw no huddle all game with four 4th downs turning into 16 new downs. But at least you elevated the conversation.

[onceacat]

The fly sweep motion is more important than the fly sweep itself because the defense has to be prepared for the fly sweep when they see the motion. And you saw some of the fly sweep motion on Saturday. Still, no one has mentioned the last time you saw no huddle all game with four 4th downs turning into 16 new downs. But at least you elevated the conversation.

I guess we can all piss with Griz nationalist all night.

1. 4-6 on 4th down as "innovation": 2 of those were on the final, game winning drive, one with 6 seconds left. Down by 5 with under a minute to go, Griznationalist, is there a single football coach in the 120 year history of the game who wouldn't go for it? OK, so 2-4 the rest of the game...gutsy, but not real innovative. Heck, old school NDSU was 2 of 4 on 4th in the game too.

2. "not a single huddle"....Well, they did huddle, 3 or 4 times in the last drive alone.

3. 90 plays!!!OMGOMGOMGOMG!!!!!! For some perspective, the Griz ran 16 of those plays in the last 2 1/2 minutes. (And it was a great 2 1/2 minutes) So, some simple math suggests that if NDSU had simply run the ball up the middle (where they were averaging 5 yards per carry) on their last 3 & out, the Griz would have had 74 plays, almost exactly what NDSU had on the game.

4. When was the last time NDSU saw 90 PLAYS in a game!!!!OMGOMGOMG In 2014 Yale averaged 83, Idaho State averaged 82, and James Madison averaged 81. In FBS, Baylor AVERAGED 87.5, and Wazzu AVERAGED 84.5. There are probably others, but I stopped looking pretty quickly 90 plays, while impressive, loses a little bit of its luster when you take into account that Gustafson threw 25 clock stopping incompletions (and Wentz added another 12). Chew on this Griz nationalist: Cal-Poly AVERAGED 78 offensive snaps per game last season while running 80% plus rushing plays out of the triple option. Talk about putting the hurt on an opponent (you do remember the hurt they put on both Montana teams last year...) Hell, the Cats averaged 73 as a run first team.

5. Every D in college football knows the fly sweep (with Stitts twist-a forward toss instead of a mesh) and every D has to prepare for it. The nature of football is that as soon as you implement a new wrinkle on a play, every other offense in the country can run it next week thanks to SportsCenter and YouTube. My understanding is that Stitt had a lot to do with the back shoulder throw. Clearly he is a thoughtful coach who can introduce new wrinkles.

I think Stitt was probably a good hire for UM. I'm totally willing to give props to UM for their solid win. But, to answer the original question, before Griznationalist derailed the thread, there was nothing particularly innovative shown in this game. I'd expect a trickle of things to come out over the season; but there was nothing of note in this game.

[catscat]

The fly sweep motion is more important than the fly sweep itself because the defense has to be prepared for the fly sweep when they see the motion. And you saw some of the fly sweep motion on Saturday. Still, no one has mentioned the last time you saw no huddle all game with four 4th downs turning into 16 new downs. But at least you elevated the conversation.

I guess we can all piss with Griz nationalist all night.

1. 4-6 on 4th down as "innovation": 2 of those were on the final, game winning drive, one with 6 seconds left. Down by 5 with under a minute to go, Griznationalist, is there a single football coach in the 120 year history of the game who wouldn't go for it? OK, so 2-4 the rest of the game...gutsy, but not real innovative. Heck, old school NDSU was 2 of 4 on 4th in the game too.

2. "not a single huddle"....Well, they did huddle, 3 or 4 times in the last drive alone.

3. 90 plays!!!OMGOMGOMGOMG!!!!!! For some perspective, the Griz ran 16 of those plays in the last 2 1/2 minutes. (And it was a great 2 1/2 minutes) So, some simple math suggests that if NDSU had simply run the ball up the middle (where they were averaging 5 yards per carry) on their last 3 & out, the Griz would have had 74 plays, almost exactly what NDSU had on the game.

4. When was the last time NDSU saw 90 PLAYS in a game!!!!OMGOMGOMG In 2014 Yale averaged 83, Idaho State averaged 82, and James Madison averaged 81. In FBS, Baylor AVERAGED 87.5, and Wazzu AVERAGED 84.5. There are probably others, but I stopped looking pretty quickly 90 plays, while impressive, loses a little bit of its luster when you take into account that Gustafson threw 25 clock stopping incompletions (and Wentz added another 12). Chew on this Griz nationalist: Cal-Poly AVERAGED 78 offensive snaps per game last season while running 80% plus rushing plays out of the triple option. Talk about putting the hurt on an opponent (you do remember the hurt they put on both Montana teams last year...) Hell, the Cats averaged 73 as a run first team.

5. Every D in college football knows the fly sweep (with Stitts twist-a forward toss instead of a mesh) and every D has to prepare for it. The nature of football is that as soon as you implement a new wrinkle on a play, every other offense in the country can run it next week thanks to SportsCenter and YouTube. My understanding is that Stitt had a lot to do with the back shoulder throw. Clearly he is a thoughtful coach who can introduce new wrinkles.

I think Stitt was probably a good hire for UM. I'm totally willing to give props to UM for their solid win. But, to answer the original question, before Griznationalist derailed the thread, there was nothing particularly innovative shown in this game. I'd expect a trickle of things to come out over the season; but there was nothing of note in this game.

Thank you!!!

[Griznationalist]

When was the last time you saw a full-game no huddle offense with six fourth-down attempts creating 16 new plays?

No one has answered yet. That must be the answer. And the point.

[91catAlum]

When was the last time you saw a full-game no huddle offense with six fourth-down attempts creating 16 new plays?

No one has answered yet. That must be the answer. And the point.

I don't recall a game with 6 fourth down attempts, and I'm too lazy to Google it, but I'm sure it's not a world record.

Last year the Cats went 2-4 on fourth downs in the EWU game. We called it aggressive, not innovative.

[Joe Bobcat]

When was the last time you saw a full-game no huddle offense with six fourth-down attempts creating 16 new plays?

No one has answered yet. That must be the answer. And the point.

Of all the articles (and there have been many) that I have read about coach Stitt I don't recall a one of them focusing on how innovative no huddle and going for it on 4th down are. He's innovative and creative but those aren't even on the list of his innovations.

But hey while everyone else has missed it you have discovered the most important 2 points that his whole coaching scheme is built upon. Don't waste yOUR time here, you're sitting on a gold mine of a discovery, you should be getting paid by every sport talk show and magazine for your discovery and knowledge.

[ImagineSanta]

The fly sweep motion is more important than the fly sweep itself because the defense has to be prepared for the fly sweep when they see the motion. And you saw some of the fly sweep motion on Saturday. Still, no one has mentioned the last time you saw no huddle all game with four 4th downs turning into 16 new downs. But at least you elevated the conversation.

I guess we can all piss with Griz nationalist all night.

1. 4-6 on 4th down as "innovation": 2 of those were on the final, game winning drive, one with 6 seconds left. Down by 5 with under a minute to go, Griznationalist, is there a single football coach in the 120 year history of the game who wouldn't go for it? OK, so 2-4 the rest of the game...gutsy, but not real innovative. Heck, old school NDSU was 2 of 4 on 4th in the game too.

2. "not a single huddle"....Well, they did huddle, 3 or 4 times in the last drive alone.

3. 90 plays!!!OMGOMGOMGOMG!!!!!! For some perspective, the Griz ran 16 of those plays in the last 2 1/2 minutes. (And it was a great 2 1/2 minutes) So, some simple math suggests that if NDSU had simply run the ball up the middle (where they were averaging 5 yards per carry) on their last 3 & out, the Griz would have had 74 plays, almost exactly what NDSU had on the game.

4. When was the last time NDSU saw 90 PLAYS in a game!!!!OMGOMGOMG In 2014 Yale averaged 83, Idaho State averaged 82, and James Madison averaged 81. In FBS, Baylor AVERAGED 87.5, and Wazzu AVERAGED 84.5. There are probably others, but I stopped looking pretty quickly 90 plays, while impressive, loses a little bit of its luster when you take into account that Gustafson threw 25 clock stopping incompletions (and Wentz added another 12). Chew on this Griz nationalist: Cal-Poly AVERAGED 78 offensive snaps per game last season while running 80% plus rushing plays out of the triple option. Talk about putting the hurt on an opponent (you do remember the hurt they put on both Montana teams last year...) Hell, the Cats averaged 73 as a run first team.

5. Every D in college football knows the fly sweep (with Stitts twist-a forward toss instead of a mesh) and every D has to prepare for it. The nature of football is that as soon as you implement a new wrinkle on a play, every other offense in the country can run it next week thanks to SportsCenter and YouTube. My understanding is that Stitt had a lot to do with the back shoulder throw. Clearly he is a thoughtful coach who can introduce new wrinkles.

I think Stitt was probably a good hire for UM. I'm totally willing to give props to UM for their solid win. But, to answer the original question, before Griznationalist derailed the thread, there was nothing particularly innovative shown in this game. I'd expect a trickle of things to come out over the season; but there was nothing of note in this game.

This is superb.

[lutecat]

When was the last time you saw a full-game no huddle offense with six fourth-down attempts creating 16 new plays?

No one has answered yet. That must be the answer. And the point.

Who f-ing cares. You choose to hang your hat on this one thing. This one thing. Are you so tunnel-visioned(like Stitt's help to A&m? on the tunnel screen, that's more innovative than f-ing going for it on 4th down without huddling ever, which its been pointed out they did) So I've still never seen a full game where a team didn't huddle(because the griz did) and went for it on 4th 6 times. So you can put that in your pipe and smoke it!!!!!!!!

Seriously, what's the difference if a team goes for it on 4th down and has a 10 play drive or a team is actually efficient on offence, doesn't need to go for it on 4th, and they make a 10 play drive? Oh, and they didn't huddle either.

[[cat_bracket]]

The theory of going for it on fourth down in non-end of game situations has been studied and analyzed since the 70s.

There's a HS coach in NC that almost always goes for it. In 11 years he won three state titles at a school that only had two semifinals appearances in the previous 40 years. He was 124-22. Kevin Kelley.

Going for it in those situations isn't a Stitt idea.

Sam Wyche was doing no huddle back in the late 80s.

Stitt did make some twists on existing plays. He's getting a ton of attention and barring a meltdown will almost certainly be getting offers from bigger schools. He's a folk hero across the country. If um beats Cal Poly and Liberty they will easily roll to 8-0.

[lutecat]

What I saw in the game.

Gus looked good and pretty bad sometimes. Call it first game, bad routes by the WR's, miscomunications, or whatever, he was way off on some of those passes....way off. In the Big Sky, we've seen some pretty talented QB's and they don't seem to miss that bad. And they're throwing more difficult balls than the underneath dink and dunk. I know he made some deep throws, but he isn't consistent. I think 2 of the really bad throws were on 4th downs, that innovatively, the griz did not convert. So I could chalk those ones up to nerves.

I was pretty impressed by Ben Roberts. Especially considering he played baseball the last 3 years. He bailed out Gus on that deep pass for a TD. He made an AMAZING catch that could've otherwise been a pick. The threesome of him, Hendo, and Jones is a pretty formidble trio. If i was super "inovative" on offense, I would've thrown it to him in the endzone and let him go up for it and make a play over the shorter CB's of NDSU.

Red zone offense for the griz.....very bad. No what you would expect from an offensive genius. When you have to bring in people from your defense to come in as a fullback, because you told your fullbacks from last year you had no use for them, that hurts on those short yardage situations. Now I will say, I am surprised at who they brought in as a fullback, when one of the old fullbacks is playing on the d-line. I expected they would bring in him first. Only time they scored in the red zone that I can remember, was that last play.

NDSU....why did they continually try to run the ball to the outside. I don't think I saw it work ONE time. At best they got 2 yards. Up the gut was a much better play.

I watched the griz scrimmage in Helena. I drove from Bozeman becasue I wanted to see this new offense. They didn't look that good in winds that were howling. They looked way improved Saturday. The RB play from the griz wasn't awesome with Counts and John. I'm suprised that Logwood didn't play. I thought he looked like the best RB from that spring scrimmage. Really surprise me to see Counts back on kickoffs. I would put Jones and Hendo back there. But that's just me and I'm not inovative.

Everything else has been covered. Props to the griz for winning. I'm being facetious in the "inovatives" in my post to get at Mr. 4th down no huddle. We won'e blow out the griz come November, which I kind of hoped might happen, and that game does make me a little nervous now. If our D isn't a lot better.....however we can score on anyone. I'm curious how both teams go for the rest of the season. The NDSU D didn't strike me as that great, but I'm just an armchair qb, so I'm not saying I'm right.

Some things Stitt did were great and some were head-scratchers. I could see them having a game, where he makes all these weird dicisions and it bites them an the butt and its one of those games where everything keeps going wrong. It'll probably come against a crappy team too. But I do expect good things, overall for them this year.

The recruiting advantage really scares me from that one. Did anyone see the dude that gave his verbal, during the game pretty much? I don't know how good the kid is, but that game was definately a great recruiting tool. Not that they play every year on ESPN, but a coach could spin it the right way.

[lutecat]

The theory of going for it on fourth down in non-end of game situations has been studied and analyzed since the 70s.

There's a HS coach in NC that almost always goes for it. In 11 years he won three state titles at a school that only had two semifinals appearances in the previous 40 years. He was 124-22. Kevin Kelley.

Going for it in those situations isn't a Stitt idea.

Sam Wyche was doing no huddle back in the late 80s.

Stitt did make some twists on existing plays. He's getting a ton of attention and barring a meltdown will almost certainly be getting offers from bigger schools. He's a folk hero across the country. If um beats Cal Poly and Liberty they will easily roll to 8-0.

You know, I saw quite a bit on egriz, where they "made up" that Stitt had tons of offers from big schools to be a coordinator, but he was holding out for a head-coaching job. I read an article that said the opposite this weekend. He has been turned down for head coach and coordinator jobs that he's tried every year to apply for. However, if he keeps up the momentum, I wouldn't be surprise if he only puts in one year in Missoula. Especially with that game happening on ESPN. That game was great for his resume and getting his name out to AD's.

[lutecat]

Anyone see this from that "classy" fan base to the north. Brand new twitter account. There were almost 200 followers when I found this on Saturday and a bunch of retweets. Apparently people sobered up and un-followed.

https://twitter.com/HasNDSUwonYet

[Griznationalist]

Well, at least people are thinking and talking if not in agreement. Nobody in here can remember or identify the last time they saw a Division 1 team go the whole game without a huddle (not counting timeouts) or convert fourth downs into 16 new plays or run some fly sweep motion against any team, let alone the top team in the nation and beat them. But, hey, if you say that's commonly done, I'm done suggesting that it's not. Here's to a great season, including success and good health for the Bobcats.

[[cat_bracket]]

The NDSU defense didn't look good by their own standards or any standard. They lost four first team all conference players, including Buck winner Kyle Emanuel and a second teamer who could've easily been a first in Travis Beck. They also played without perhaps their best defender CJ Smith. They started two frosh in the secondary. They returned no all-conference players.

[Hawks86]

Honest question. Do we huddle?