Why isn't Fields trying to keep Kramer?

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grizdoc
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Post by grizdoc » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:45 am

Bay Area Cat wrote:
barechestcat wrote:Based upon your comment BAC, I have a few questions:

1) Can the alumni/boosters of a school generate, say $100,000.00 per year, extra money that goes directly to a coach as supplemental income?

2) If so, could it be built into our Bobcat Club dues yearly? If 5000 boosters gave an extra $100/yr, that would equate to an extra $500,000.00 for coaches salaries.
You've in large part just described the Bobcat Quarterback Club.
At the last Board of Regents meeting Kramer's salary was increased by $22,000 based on QBC monies.



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Post by SonomaCat » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:45 am

barechestcat wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:
barechestcat wrote:Based upon your comment BAC, I have a few questions:

1) Can the alumni/boosters of a school generate, say $100,000.00 per year, extra money that goes directly to a coach as supplemental income?

2) If so, could it be built into our Bobcat Club dues yearly? If 5000 boosters gave an extra $100/yr, that would equate to an extra $500,000.00 for coaches salaries.
You've in large part just described the Bobcat Quarterback Club.
Does some of that money go to Kramer as personal funds?
Yes ... that is my understanding. His salary is supplemented by the QBC.



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Bleedinbluengold
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Post by Bleedinbluengold » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:00 pm

NO! BUT, it does help pay the expenses incurred by the FB program, including some of Krames' expenses.


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Post by Platinumcat » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:03 pm

I knew that the funds were available for Kramer to use for things such as the motel stays in Livingston. I had never heard about him putting some of it into his personal bank account.


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Post by SonomaCat » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:20 pm

Bleedinbluengold wrote:NO! BUT, it does help pay the expenses incurred by the FB program, including some of Krames' expenses.
Are you sure? I guess I need to re-read my materials tonight. I thought that part of the expenditures went towards supplementing the head and assistant coaching salaries ... which seemed like a perfectly reasonable and necessary use of funds.



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Post by rtb » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:21 pm

I am looking for the information right now, but as of 2004 I found that Kramer's salary from MSU was $105K meaning that the QBC and media agreements were paying the additional 20K.


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Re: Why isn't Fields trying to keep Kramer?

Post by BobCatFan » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:47 pm

roofman71 wrote: jusst seems to me that Fields would like to see Coach Kramer go so he can hire another coach that he can control.
If this was the case, the MSU hired the wrong AD. When a boss thinks they are better then eveyone else, it is a sure sign the program is going the wrong direction. We need team work to be sucessul.



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Post by bobcatgrad2005 » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:29 pm

Some simple facts bring new light to this discussion:

- Fields has not approached Kramer about a multi year contract. The " playoffs, recruiting, too busy thing is a line of BS." Unfortunatley, if Kramer had signed a 3 year deal last week, MSU might be getting a hefty $3-400 K payout if Kramer does indeed leave. Nice failure to work Mr. Fields.

- Kramer has not, in fact, even signed his yearly contract for THIS year a process which was supposed to be completed July 1, but Fields refuses to negotiat with Kramer (or more pointedly Mrs. Kramer).

- Why is Kramer driving a 5 year old courtesy car whose lease just got extended to 100 k miles? Way to reward you sucessfull coaches, MR. Fields. How's you Audi, by the way?

- Fields has not yet approached Kramer about his bonuses for getting into the playoffs or winning a playoff game. Is MK supposed to knock on his door and politley remind Fields for that check?

Fields is jealous. And he has reason to be. We all like Kramer more than we like him.



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Post by LTown Cat » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:33 pm

bobcatgrad2005 wrote:Some simple facts bring new light to this discussion:

- Fields has not approached Kramer about a multi year contract. The " playoffs, recruiting, too busy thing is a line of BS." Unfortunatley, if Kramer had signed a 3 year deal last week, MSU might be getting a hefty $3-400 K payout if Kramer does indeed leave. Nice failure to work Mr. Fields.

- Kramer has not, in fact, even signed his yearly contract for THIS year a process which was supposed to be completed July 1, but Fields refuses to negotiat with Kramer (or more pointedly Mrs. Kramer).

- Why is Kramer driving a 5 year old courtesy car whose lease just got extended to 100 k miles? Way to reward you sucessfull coaches, MR. Fields. How's you Audi, by the way?

- Fields has not yet approached Kramer about his bonuses for getting into the playoffs or winning a playoff game. Is MK supposed to knock on his door and politley remind Fields for that check?

Fields is jealous. And he has reason to be. We all like Kramer more than we like him.
Kramer for AD!!!!!! Fields to Idaho!!!!!!



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Post by SonomaCat » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:35 pm

So are you guys suggesting that the difference between Kramer staying at MSU and going to a I-A job is Peter Fields?

Do you not believe that the huge salary disparity between the two jobs might be a factor in such a decision?

Might it have been known that Kramer was going to be looking, thus making his new contract less of a priority?

I just get uncomfortable with accusations coming from anonymous posters ripping on public officials ... especially in a case where the end result (Kramer leaving) is clearly beyond his control.

Like I said -- if you guys want to compete against 1-A schools for coaching talent, just write much, much bigger checks. Until then, it simply ain't gonna happen.



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Post by Cat Grad » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:37 pm

That wouldn't be fair to Coach. Idaho already has a large ego AD running on relatives shirtails. Let Coach go home if he wants and let the boosters there clean house. Everything in Bozo will play itself out in time.



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Post by bobcatgrad2005 » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:39 pm

I am not saying Fields failure to act is the reason Kramer might leave; I am saying there is an appropriate way to treat your staff and an inappropriate way to treat your staff. Failure to reward earned, and contractual, bonuses in a timley manner, failure to renew contracts in a timley manner, and failure to make success appreciated are inappropriate ways to run an organization, wheather its Sunday school or Bobcat Athletics.



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Post by duelalumnicat » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:39 pm

But it is ok if we still rip on Fullerton, right? I hope so. :wink:



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Post by LTown Cat » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:40 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:So are you guys suggesting that the difference between Kramer staying at MSU and going to a I-A job is Peter Fields?

Do you not believe that the huge salary disparity between the two jobs might be a factor in such a decision?

Might it have been known that Kramer was going to be looking, thus making his new contract less of a priority?

I just get uncomfortable with accusations coming from anonymous posters ripping on public officials ... especially in a case where the end result (Kramer leaving) is clearly beyond his control.

Like I said -- if you guys want to compete against 1-A schools for coaching talent, just write much, much bigger checks. Until then, it simply ain't gonna happen.
I completely agree with you. I have been nothing short of impressed with Peter Fields every time I have heard him speak. He really seems to love MSU and what he does. That being said I am a big fan of Kramer as well. Bottom line here is that nobody knows the reasons for any of the issues outlined except for Fields and Kramer. I do feel that the second the Idaho job came open, Kramer was gone if he got the job. It is what he wanted last year and what he wants this year. This doesn't take anything away from his love and devotion to MSU, just that the Idaho job is his dream.



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Post by bcats » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:41 pm

Fields has nothing to do with Kramer going to Idaho. It is more money, a step up, and his Alma Mater. Kramer hasn't signed a 3 year contract for the same reason Hauck hasn't. They are both looking to go bigger. It is a Fact of Life. You want a coach to stay here for a significant amount of time then hire a guy who really feels like this is his dream job.


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Post by brucat5 » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:45 pm

bobcatgrad2005 wrote:Some simple facts bring new light to this discussion:

- Fields has not approached Kramer about a multi year contract. The " playoffs, recruiting, too busy thing is a line of BS." Unfortunatley, if Kramer had signed a 3 year deal last week, MSU might be getting a hefty $3-400 K payout if Kramer does indeed leave. Nice failure to work Mr. Fields.

- Kramer has not, in fact, even signed his yearly contract for THIS year a process which was supposed to be completed July 1, but Fields refuses to negotiat with Kramer (or more pointedly Mrs. Kramer).

- Why is Kramer driving a 5 year old courtesy car whose lease just got extended to 100 k miles? Way to reward you sucessfull coaches, MR. Fields. How's you Audi, by the way?

- Fields has not yet approached Kramer about his bonuses for getting into the playoffs or winning a playoff game. Is MK supposed to knock on his door and politley remind Fields for that check?

Fields is jealous. And he has reason to be. We all like Kramer more than we like him.
Lets all hope this isn't true, because if it is, we're going to have a heck of a time hiring someone to replace Kramer that will be able to carry the program to the next level. If Kramer and Van Diest are such good friends then I'm sure Kramer has notified him and anyone else who asks him about the position how he was treated by Fields. This isn't good...



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Post by SonomaCat » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:49 pm

I'm assuming there were some personality conflicts between Kramer and Fields (which would almost be expected to some degree), and some posters close to the action have taken sides and are beating on Fields via the wonders of anonymous posting.

I somewhat doubt that Fields is the ogre that some would like us to believe, but I am sure he has his faults ... and does everybody (as we know from posters bitching about virtually everyone at some point and time).
Last edited by SonomaCat on Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post by oldcatfan » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:51 pm

You people dissing Fields for Kramer leaving are living in a dream world. Why are you looking around for a reason besides the real one: Kramer WANTS to go. What's so wrong with that? It doesn't reflect poorly on us--this is a great opportunity for MSU--let's make the best of it. He was great, but there are other great people out there.

Fields is the best thing that happened to MSU athletics since pre-Fullerton days. He wants to win as bad as we all do and also wants a first rate program. I also hear everybody up there likes working for him. Anyone who has ever been around college athletics knows there is always push and pull between coaches and ADs.



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Post by El_Gato » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:04 pm

I stated this on egriz and I'll state it here:

Peter Fields has a VERY difficult task ahead of him now (assuming Kramer is gone). Not only does he have to find a good head football coach, one that will in large part determine Fields' own legacy at MSU, but also either A) fill the HUGE void in promotion/fundraising himself, or B) find another coach as good as Kramer was at promoting MSU athletics.

IMO, the thing Mike Kramer did BEST was re-invigorate the Bobcat Nation. Mike was tireless in his efforts to put PRIDE (and $$$) back into MSU Athletics; again IMO, Mike WAS MSU Athletics for the past 7 years. Finding someone with Mike's combination of strengths on & off the field is going to be difficult.

If we do hire a better X's & O's coach, that's great; but if that coach isn't as good at "pressing the flesh" as Mike was, someone's got to be out on the highways, continuing to build the goodwill and instilling the pride that Mike did or we will suffer a much bigger loss than just a football coach...


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Post by SonomaCat » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:07 pm

El_Gato wrote:I stated this on egriz and I'll state it here:

Peter Fields has a VERY difficult task ahead of him now (assuming Kramer is gone). Not only does he have to find a good head football coach, one that will in large part determine Fields' own legacy at MSU, but also either A) fill the HUGE void in promotion/fundraising himself, or B) find another coach as good as Kramer was at promoting MSU athletics.

IMO, the thing Mike Kramer did BEST was re-invigorate the Bobcat Nation. Mike was tireless in his efforts to put PRIDE (and $$$) back into MSU Athletics; again IMO, Mike WAS MSU Athletics for the past 7 years. Finding someone with Mike's combination of strengths on & off the field is going to be difficult.

If we do hire a better X's & O's coach, that's great; but if that coach isn't as good at "pressing the flesh" as Mike was, someone's got to be out on the highways, continuing to build the goodwill and instilling the pride that Mike did or we will suffer a much bigger loss than just a football coach...
Agreed. These will be some big shoes to fill.



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