#1 DEFENSE against the rush!

catsrback76 · Post by **catsrback76** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:36 pm

KillintheGriz wrote:
GrizinWashington wrote:
The two reasons I believe the Griz will win the Brawl are turnover margin and special teams. Both heavily favor the Griz.
Griz have a slight edge here, but the turnover margin for the Cats has flipped a 180 from the first 5 games. .

To further make the point from the Bobcat website:

"The Bobcat offense finds an extra gear in road games, averaging 425 yards a game and 6.3 yards a play away from home as opposed to 275 yards a game and 4.8 yards per play in Bobcat Stadium
• MSU finished +1 in turnover margin Saturday, and is -4 on the season
• The Bobcats are +3 in turnovers in their six wins this season, -7 in their three losses "

The turnovers have come our way in the last 5 games. To make it interesting for November 18th- we have played our BEST games on the road and I think we can expect the same at WaGr.

Born2BaGriz · Post by **Born2BaGriz** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:47 pm

catsrback76 wrote:
KillintheGriz wrote:
GrizinWashington wrote:
The two reasons I believe the Griz will win the Brawl are turnover margin and special teams. Both heavily favor the Griz.
Griz have a slight edge here, but the turnover margin for the Cats has flipped a 180 from the first 5 games. .
To further make the point from the Bobcat website:

"The Bobcat offense finds an extra gear in road games, averaging 425 yards a game and 6.3 yards a play away from home as opposed to 275 yards a game and 4.8 yards per play in Bobcat Stadium
• MSU finished +1 in turnover margin Saturday, and is -4 on the season
• The Bobcats are +3 in turnovers in their six wins this season, -7 in their three losses "

The turnovers have come our way in the last 5 games. To make it interesting for November 18th- we have played our BEST games on the road and I think we can expect the same at WaGr.

You haven't been having turnovers can have something to do with the fact that you haven't been facing one of the best defenses in the Big Sky.

But, I gotta give the Cats props. Things could have gone into the crapper this year, but to the credit of the coaches and players, they pulled it out and have become a good team. But, while I read this, I can't help but say to myself, the Griz have a tough Cal-Poly game to deal with this weekend. The Cats have cupcake UNC and a bye week. I think the Cats prove ability on the road and the bye eliminate the homefield advantage for the Griz. Novemeber 18th will be a fun one. And it should be for all the marbles, just the way it should be in my opinion.

HelenaCat95 · Post by **HelenaCat95** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:55 pm

Born2BaGriz wrote:
catsrback76 wrote:
KillintheGriz wrote:
GrizinWashington wrote:
The two reasons I believe the Griz will win the Brawl are turnover margin and special teams. Both heavily favor the Griz.
Griz have a slight edge here, but the turnover margin for the Cats has flipped a 180 from the first 5 games. .
To further make the point from the Bobcat website:

"The Bobcat offense finds an extra gear in road games, averaging 425 yards a game and 6.3 yards a play away from home as opposed to 275 yards a game and 4.8 yards per play in Bobcat Stadium
• MSU finished +1 in turnover margin Saturday, and is -4 on the season
• The Bobcats are +3 in turnovers in their six wins this season, -7 in their three losses "

The turnovers have come our way in the last 5 games. To make it interesting for November 18th- we have played our BEST games on the road and I think we can expect the same at WaGr.
You haven't been having turnovers can have something to do with the fact that you haven't been facing one of the best defenses in the Big Sky.

But, I gotta give the Cats props. Things could have gone into the crapper this year, but to the credit of the coaches and players, they pulled it out and have become a good team. But, while I read this, I can't help but say to myself, the Griz have a tough Cal-Poly game to deal with this weekend. The Cats have cupcake UNC and a bye week. I think the Cats prove ability on the road and the bye eliminate the homefield advantage for the Griz. Novemeber 18th will be a fun one. And it should be for all the marbles, just the way it should be in my opinion.

You make several good points. But I don't think anything eliminates the homefield advantage for the Griz - except maybe the opposition putting up 4 touchdowns in the first 6 minutes. Unless we can do that (and I am not predicting that) the Griz will have a solid homefield advantage on Nov 18.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:37 pm

HelenaCat95 wrote:
Born2BaGriz wrote:
catsrback76 wrote:
KillintheGriz wrote:
GrizinWashington wrote:
The two reasons I believe the Griz will win the Brawl are turnover margin and special teams. Both heavily favor the Griz.
Griz have a slight edge here, but the turnover margin for the Cats has flipped a 180 from the first 5 games. .
To further make the point from the Bobcat website:

"The Bobcat offense finds an extra gear in road games, averaging 425 yards a game and 6.3 yards a play away from home as opposed to 275 yards a game and 4.8 yards per play in Bobcat Stadium
• MSU finished +1 in turnover margin Saturday, and is -4 on the season
• The Bobcats are +3 in turnovers in their six wins this season, -7 in their three losses "

The turnovers have come our way in the last 5 games. To make it interesting for November 18th- we have played our BEST games on the road and I think we can expect the same at WaGr.
You haven't been having turnovers can have something to do with the fact that you haven't been facing one of the best defenses in the Big Sky.

But, I gotta give the Cats props. Things could have gone into the crapper this year, but to the credit of the coaches and players, they pulled it out and have become a good team. But, while I read this, I can't help but say to myself, the Griz have a tough Cal-Poly game to deal with this weekend. The Cats have cupcake UNC and a bye week. I think the Cats prove ability on the road and the bye eliminate the homefield advantage for the Griz. Novemeber 18th will be a fun one. And it should be for all the marbles, just the way it should be in my opinion.
You make several good points. But I don't think anything eliminates the homefield advantage for the Griz - except maybe the opposition putting up 4 touchdowns in the first 6 minutes. Unless we can do that (and I am not predicting that) the Griz will have a solid homefield advantage on Nov 18.

I agree they will have a solid home field advantage, but that plays in the Cats hands because I think they love to play on the road. They beat Colorado at their place they can beat the Griz in theirs. Nice fast artificial turf too

083190 · Post by **083190** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:17 pm

What if the weather is bad like in 2002? They lost because the weather was bad then. It won't be muddy, so that excuse is gone. During both of those wins there was confusion because it was sunny and 70 only when the Cats had the ball.

DaCats Forever · Post by **DaCats Forever** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:20 pm

Gallatin Griz wrote:There's an old saying that goes something like this:

"It is easier to get to the top than stay at the top."

Old sayings are old for a reason - a lot of truth to them.

I have said before that I admire how the cats have improved since the streak and think MK has done an admirable job, however, you're still trying to emulate our big picture, consistent success as usual.

The Cats have been consistent ( 5 straight years of winning records), the problem is they haven't been able to make the jump to elite.

By the way, would you tell all your friends that wearing Griz clothes all over town is ridiculously arrogant. I'm so sick of seeing Griz coats all over Bozeman. It's starting to get old and as the rivalry continually heats up, it's only going to lead to problems. I go to Missoula consistently and I have the respect enough to not braizenly wear team colors tbat are hated. I can respect someone that comes to a bar to cheer on the Grizzlies in full maroon, but do you really have to wear things all around town. Just another thing that annoys me about Grizzly fans. Sorry got really off-topic.

grizbeer · Post by **grizbeer** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:27 pm

Cledus wrote:
By the way, what's Hauck's record against Kramer and the Cats?

1-0 at Washington Grizzly Stadium, where the game will be this year.

LuvMaroon · Post by **LuvMaroon** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:30 pm

083190 wrote:What if the weather is bad like in 2002? They lost because the weather was bad then. It won't be muddy, so that excuse is gone. During both of those wins there was confusion because it was sunny and 70 only when the Cats had the ball.

If you think weather conditions don't matter, you don't know much. Why do you think the NFL analysts argue that the winner of New England/Indy in an AFC championship depends on who has homefield? Poor conditions will always favor 1 of the teams. Funny how whichever team it does favor always pretends it doesn't matter.

Eastcoastgriz · Post by **Eastcoastgriz** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:36 pm

El_Gato wrote:While I agree that the Griz have an advantage in their ability to take away the football, after watching the last couple games, there's no way they have an advantage in special teams.

Say what you will about the roll punt and our penalties, but with Austin, Jefferson, and Lewis running back kicks/punts, we at least have TD potential on returns; I don't see that with Tuff & the Griz.

You must of misssed the run back for a TD by Tuff at the EWU game

STREETCAT · Post by **STREETCAT** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:38 pm

Eastcoastgriz wrote:
El_Gato wrote:While I agree that the Griz have an advantage in their ability to take away the football, after watching the last couple games, there's no way they have an advantage in special teams.

Say what you will about the roll punt and our penalties, but with Austin, Jefferson, and Lewis running back kicks/punts, we at least have TD potential on returns; I don't see that with Tuff & the Griz.
You must of misssed the run back for a TD by Tuff at the EWU game

How many games ago was this? Didnt he fumble a couple too?

Eastcoastgriz · Post by **Eastcoastgriz** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:42 pm

STREETCAT wrote:
Eastcoastgriz wrote:
El_Gato wrote:While I agree that the Griz have an advantage in their ability to take away the football, after watching the last couple games, there's no way they have an advantage in special teams.

Say what you will about the roll punt and our penalties, but with Austin, Jefferson, and Lewis running back kicks/punts, we at least have TD potential on returns; I don't see that with Tuff & the Griz.
You must of misssed the run back for a TD by Tuff at the EWU game
How many games ago was this? Didnt he fumble a couple too?

Last week we beat ISU, the week before was NAU and the week before that we beat EWU. So that makes it 3 weeks.

info197176 · Post by **info197176** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:48 pm

Tuff has fumbled once...he is the BEST punt returner in the Big Sky, you guys won't even try to kick to him on the 18th, just ask Kramer..

grizbeer · Post by **grizbeer** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:49 pm

CARDIAC_CATS wrote:Griz have been relying way too much on D/Special Team scores and that usually doesn't happen in Cat/Griz too often as both teams usually play more conservative. Should be a good one just because of that fact.

I believe all scores in the 2002 game came as a result of turnovers, and several field goals were missed, including a blocked field goal that would have tied the game.

With the exception of a kickoff returned for a TD, and an interception returned for a touchdown Montana kicked MSU up and down the field in 2003, so special teams and turnovers were the key factor in that game.

2004 I don't remember a lot of big special teams or turnover issues. 2005 wasn't decided by turnovers or special teams, but there were enough turnovers and missed field goals to keep the game close or keep it from being closer.

Seems like special teams and turnovers almost always factor into Cat-Griz - anyone remember a botched kickoff and last second field goal about 9 years ago?

STREETCAT · Post by **STREETCAT** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:52 pm

info197176 wrote:Tuff has fumbled once...he is the BEST punt returner in the Big Sky, you guys won't even try to kick to him on the 18th, just ask Kramer..

And what is the average return against us again?

Post by **kmax** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:52 pm

grizbeer wrote:
CARDIAC_CATS wrote:Griz have been relying way too much on D/Special Team scores and that usually doesn't happen in Cat/Griz too often as both teams usually play more conservative. Should be a good one just because of that fact.
I believe all scores in the 2002 game came as a result of turnovers, and several field goals were missed, including a blocked field goal that would have tied the game.

With the exception of a kickoff returned for a TD, and an interception returned for a touchdown Montana kicked MSU up and down the field in 2003, so special teams and turnovers were the key factor in that game.

2004 I don't remember a lot of big special teams or turnover issues. 2005 wasn't decided by turnovers or special teams, but there were enough turnovers and missed field goals to keep the game close or keep it from being closer.

Seems like special teams and turnovers almost always factor into Cat-Griz - anyone remember a botched kickoff and last second field goal about 9 years ago?

Just a warning, referring to that heartbreaking moment on this board is cause for immediate banning.

As to the rest, I would tend to agree with you. Cat/Griz often goes to the team that can make the big plays (or avoid the big mistakes) whether they be on offense, defense or special teams.

Post by **kmax** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:54 pm

info197176 wrote:Tuff has fumbled once...he is the BEST punt returner in the Big Sky, you guys won't even try to kick to him on the 18th, just ask Kramer..

You say that like we have exhibited any ability to control where a punt has gone this season.

HelenaCat95 · Post by **HelenaCat95** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:08 pm

kmax wrote:
info197176 wrote:Tuff has fumbled once...he is the BEST punt returner in the Big Sky, you guys won't even try to kick to him on the 18th, just ask Kramer..
You say that like we have exhibited any ability to control where a punt has gone this season.

It usually goes over our punter's head.

Gallatin Griz · Post by **Gallatin Griz** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:13 pm

Dacats posted, "By the way, would you tell all your friends that wearing Griz clothes all over town is ridiculously arrogant. I'm so sick of seeing Griz coats all over Bozeman. It's starting to get old and as the rivalry continually heats up, it's only going to lead to problems. I go to Missoula consistently and I have the respect enough to not braizenly wear team colors tbat are hated. I can respect someone that comes to a bar to cheer on the Grizzlies in full maroon, but do you really have to wear things all around town. Just another thing that annoys me about Grizzly fans."

Maybe they are all going to a "bar to cheer on the Grizzlies in full maroon." So you might as well respect them all because it is going to get worse. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated, Bozeman! Go ahead Dacats, braizenly wear your blue and yellow items all over Missoula and see if anyone really cares.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:46 pm

info197176 wrote:Tuff has fumbled once...he is the BEST punt returner in the Big Sky, you guys won't even try to kick to him on the 18th, just ask Kramer..

We don't kick to ANYONE; at least not intentionally!

Cat in NC · Post by **Cat in NC** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:09 pm

El_Gato wrote:
info197176 wrote:Tuff has fumbled once...he is the BEST punt returner in the Big Sky, you guys won't even try to kick to him on the 18th, just ask Kramer..
We don't kick to ANYONE; at least not intentionally!

You guys stink for getting here earlier than me and taking up all of the "Our punting game is bad. How bad is it?" jokes. Except to say that Tuff won't touch any punts during Cat/Griz unless he lines up on the line of scrimmage and rushes the punter. Those guys are the only guys we can hit with any reliability.