Thought provoking letter to the editor on immigration

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Thought provoking letter to the editor on immigration

Post by grizzh8r » Tue May 18, 2010 6:21 pm

For some reason, people have difficulty structuring their arguments when arguing against supporting the currently proposed immigration revisions. This lady made the argument pretty simple. However, it was NOT printed in the Orange County paper...................

Newspapers simply won't publish letters to the editor which they either deem politically incorrect (read below) or which does not agree with the philosophy they're pushing on the public. This woman wrote a great letter to the editor that should have been published; but, with your help it will get published via cyberspace!



My wife wrote a wonderful letter to the editor of the OC Register which, of course, was not printed. So, I decided to "print" it myself by sending it out on the Internet. Pass it along if you feel so inclined. Written in response to a series of letters to the editor in the Orange County Register:

Dear Editor:
So many letter writers have based their arguments on how this land is made up of immigrants. Ernie Lujan for one, suggests we should tear down the Statue of Liberty because the people now in question aren't being treated the same as those who passed through Ellis Island and other ports of entry.

Maybe we should turn to our history books and point out to people like Mr. Lujan why today's American is not willing to accept this new kind of immigrant any longer. Back in 1900 when there was a rush from all areas of Europe to come to the United States, people had to get off a ship and stand in a long line in New York and be documented. Some would even get down on their hands and knees and kiss the ground. They made a pledge to uphold the laws and support their new country in good and bad times. They made learning English a primary rule in their new American households and some even changed their names to blend in with their new home.

They had waved good bye to their birth place to give their children a new life and did everything in their power to help their children assimilate into one culture. Nothing was handed to them. No free lunches, no welfare, no labor laws to protect them. All they had were the skills and craftsmanship they had brought with them to trade for a future of prosperity.

Most of their children came of age when World War II broke out. My father fought along side men whose parents had come straight over from Germany, Italy, France and Japan . None of these 1st generation Americans ever gave any thought about what country their parents had come from. They were Americans fighting Hitler, Mussolini and the Emperor of Japan. They were defending the United States of America as one people.

When we liberated France, no one in those villages were looking for the French-American or the German American or the Irish American. The people of France saw only Americans. And we carried one flag that represented one country. Not one of those immigrant sons would have thought about picking up another country's flag and waving it to represent who they were. It would have been a disgrace to their parents who had sacrificed so much to be here. These immigrants truly knew what it meant to be an American. They stirred the melting pot into one red, white and blue bowl.

And here we are with a new kind of immigrant who wants the same rights and privileges. Only they want to achieve it by playing with a different set of rules, one that includes the entitlement card and a guarantee of being faithful to their mother country. I'm sorry, that's not what being an American is all about. I believe that the immigrants who landed on Ellis Island in the early 1900's deserve better than that for all the toil, hard work and sacrifice in raising future generations to create a land that has become a beacon for those legally searching for a better life. I think they would be appalled that they are being used as an example by those waving foreign country flags.

And for that suggestion about taking down the Statue of Liberty, it happens to mean a lot to the citizens who are voting on the immigration bill. I wouldn't start talking about dismantling the United States just yet.


Eric Curry STILL makes me sad.
94VegasCat wrote:Are you for real? That is just a plain ol dumb paragraph! You just nailed every note in the Full Retard sing-a-long choir!!!
:rofl:

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Re: Thought provoking letter to the editor on immigration

Post by GrizinWashington » Tue May 18, 2010 6:54 pm

No matter what your position on today's immigration, the writer of that e-mail should have paid more attention in History 101. Yes, while many European immigrants were hard-working, decent people who learned English, there was also a large percentage who did not fit that mold. Criminal activity (including organzied crime) was not unusual for immigrants in the early 1900s. To suggest that those immigrants also easily melded into and accepted American culture, religion and language is also ridiculous. Why does one suppose that every major US city had a Chinatown, Irish district, Little Italy and Little Germany? European immigrants flocked to those enclaves to speak their native tongue and be around those with similar beliefs. And the suggestion that they changed their names to blend in? Most had their names changed for them upon entry or did so because it helped them avoid prejudice and persecution.

Essentially, immigrants have always faced the same issues in America that the current Latino immigrants now face. The more things change, the more they stay the same.


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Re: Thought provoking letter to the editor on immigration

Post by ChiOCat » Wed May 19, 2010 7:45 am

That letter is missing a big point - Legal vs Illegal immigrants. I think most people are upset about the illegal immigrants and only a few wingnuts are up in arms about the legal ones.


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Re: Thought provoking letter to the editor on immigration

Post by wbtfg » Wed May 19, 2010 8:18 am

Here's some background on the letter. Also very thought provoking.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigrat ... grants.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



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Re: Thought provoking letter to the editor on immigration

Post by grizzh8r » Wed May 19, 2010 7:50 pm

ChiOCat wrote:That letter is missing a big point - Legal vs Illegal immigrants. I think most people are upset about the illegal immigrants and only a few wingnuts are up in arms about the legal ones.
I thought that was inferred, what with the "people had to get off a ship and stand in a long line in New York and be documented" part. But yes, I agree.

To your point, GinW, immigrants of decades past had to eventually adapt the the American way of life and the English language, or continue to live in a very restricted place (ala, a Chinatown or Little Italy). Today, they are being coddled and bailed out by automated voices saying "para espanol oprima numero ocho". Some school districts have already implemented bilingual programs, and kids are being tossed out of schools for wearing shirts depicting the American Flag on Cinco de Mayo. Now, before you get on my case about singling out people of Hispanic descent, realize they offer a convenient example due to the fact that they make up the vast majority of immigrants in the US (be they legal or illegal).

My point is, once you become a legal US citizen, your place of origin should not matter anymore. You are now an American. Not an Asian American, Italian American, Russian American, or an Uzbekistani American. Additionally, it should be your charge to learn the language of your new country of citizenship, in order to communicate with your fellow countrymen. The crutches our society is now offering immigrants is making it even easier for the illegals to live and work here. Take away those crutches, and I think we'd see some changes.


Eric Curry STILL makes me sad.
94VegasCat wrote:Are you for real? That is just a plain ol dumb paragraph! You just nailed every note in the Full Retard sing-a-long choir!!!
:rofl:

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Re: Thought provoking letter to the editor on immigration

Post by GrizinWashington » Wed May 19, 2010 8:12 pm

I agree that anyone living in this country needs to learn English. But in most instances, it is companies who provide bi-lingual capabilities. Why? Because it gives them a competitive advantage (or at least keeps them on the same level as the company across town doing the same thing).
My point is, once you become a legal US citizen, your place of origin should not matter anymore. You are now an American. Not an Asian American, Italian American, Russian American, or an Uzbekistani American.

With this statement, however, I have to disagree. I have lived in Europe and while I was never going to be a permanent Ex-Pat, I had many friends who were. At NO time did they ever refer to themselves as Germans, even though they had lived in that nation for decades. They were Americans, Australians, Canadians, or what have you. I'm a big believer that people should maintain ties to their heritage while becoming the best citizen they can in the country in which they live.

Additionally, as English-speaking people, we have it great. We can travel or live anywhere in the world, and find plenty of English. Trust me, if I had had to rely on my German while living in Germany, I would have been toast. I think we tend to forget that sometimes.


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Re: Thought provoking letter to the editor on immigration

Post by ChiOCat » Thu May 20, 2010 6:50 am

grizzh8r wrote:
ChiOCat wrote:That letter is missing a big point - Legal vs Illegal immigrants. I think most people are upset about the illegal immigrants and only a few wingnuts are up in arms about the legal ones.
I thought that was inferred, what with the "people had to get off a ship and stand in a long line in New York and be documented" part. But yes, I agree.
Yes, that's what I mean, the letter was talking about immigrants that came here legally and I don't believe the current immigration issues are with legal immigrants.

If someone comes here legally and still wants to hold on to some of their heritage should not be an issue. If it is, then the NoDak/Minn Norweigians need to stop eating their Lutafisk (and why shouldn't they :cry: ) and Leftse. Butte needs to give up their Pasties. A whole bunch of deli's in New York should probably close.....etc. Oh, and let's not forget St Patty's day!!

Now, American high school students being told they cannot wear an American flag shirt in an American school on Cinco de Mayo is just ridiculous, but immigrants holding on to their heritage while joining into their new country shouldn't be criticized either.


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Re: Thought provoking letter to the editor on immigration

Post by CelticCat » Tue May 25, 2010 5:13 pm

Wow, I hadn't heard about that whole American flag t-shirt. I read up on it. The most ridiculous argument for the school's decision has to be "Would you like it if they wore a Mexican flag on the 4th of July?". First of all, Cinco de May isn't even Mexico's independence day, it celebrates a win over France in a single battle if I remember correctly. Secondly, this isn't Mexico... So really, the equivalent here would have to be some American's in Mexico upset that Mexican's are wearing a Mexican flag shirt on like January 8th or something (the day Andrew Jackson won the Battle of New Orleans). Or D-Day. You get the picture.

I have no problem with immigrants respecting their own culture and heritage. But at NO point should it ever be unacceptable to wear an American flag t-shirt in America.


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Re: Thought provoking letter to the editor on immigration

Post by SonomaCat » Tue May 25, 2010 5:21 pm

I completely agree that the school was out of line over the whole flag shirt flap. It was a pretty stupid decision that (in our day of internet "news" and the focus on the sensational over the substantive) was destined to blow up in their faces in a huge way. Not to mention that it's absurd to try to restrict student's self-expression when what they are doing is so obviously not going to be seen by the general public as inappropriate.

That said, the kids who wore the shirts sounded like they were doing so not so much to honor America, but to try to provoke a reaction of some kind (which I really have no problem with at all). The school was just stupid enough to give them what they wanted, so the kids won the PR battle.

I hope the kids where those same shirts for St. Patty's Day and Columbus Day and Chinese New Year and every other ethnic-group associated holiday. Then their message would be consistent and would really make the school look dumb(er).



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Re: Thought provoking letter to the editor on immigration

Post by BelgradeBobcat » Wed May 26, 2010 10:14 pm

Personally, I don't see the harm in being a little more bilingual. Certainly many other countries deal with with (Europe comes to mind) and do just fine.

I always marvel at foreign athletes-especially those from Europe. They'll carry on an interview in English and then switch over French, or Spanish or whatever for the next reporter. I think that is so cool-I wish I could do that.



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Re: Thought provoking letter to the editor on immigration

Post by CelticCat » Thu May 27, 2010 11:19 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:I completely agree that the school was out of line over the whole flag shirt flap. It was a pretty stupid decision that (in our day of internet "news" and the focus on the sensational over the substantive) was destined to blow up in their faces in a huge way. Not to mention that it's absurd to try to restrict student's self-expression when what they are doing is so obviously not going to be seen by the general public as inappropriate.

That said, the kids who wore the shirts sounded like they were doing so not so much to honor America, but to try to provoke a reaction of some kind (which I really have no problem with at all). The school was just stupid enough to give them what they wanted, so the kids won the PR battle.

I hope the kids where those same shirts for St. Patty's Day and Columbus Day and Chinese New Year and every other ethnic-group associated holiday. Then their message would be consistent and would really make the school look dumb(er).
I'm sure the kids motives weren't driven by Uncle Sam. Maybe their point was to be offensive, maybe their point was to point out the over-the-top PC politics of the school system in New York (too much credit?). I'm glad the thing got national attention for whatever the motives may have been. How sensitive do we as Americans have to be to minorities? I ask this rhetorically and without any disdain.

Would I expect a big celebration for me on the 4th of July if I was living in Great Britain (or whatever they go by nowadays)? Absolutely not. Would I be peeved if a bunch of English natives wore a UK shirt on the 4th of a July? No!

There is always going to be a fine line between Americans from different heritage & cultural backgrounds, but at no point should any American, be it Mexican-American, Native-American, etc, be offended by the American flag. It really sickens me that there are so called Americans living in this country who are insulted by our nation's flag, even if it is on a day respecting their other origins.


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Re: Thought provoking letter to the editor on immigration

Post by SonomaCat » Fri May 28, 2010 10:23 am

Again, I agree that the school overreacted, but I also think it's not quite accurate to suggest that this was an example of people being "offended" or "insulted" by the U.S. flag itself. I don't think that's what was going on in this case. I think the school (in CA) took the position that the kids were wearing those shirts to try to intimidate or rile up the Hispanic kids (and it's likely there is some history between these kids and some Hispanic students, so we should keep those kinds of things in mind). So it wasn't the flag itself that was their issue, but rather the intent of the kids wearing those shirts to create a disruption.

But in my mind, regardless of the motives of the kids, I think it was wrong for the school to take action in this situation.

Let's face it, the flag has been used in pretty insulting ways by many people. I have been really turned off by particular people using the flag inappropriately for their own selfish reasons. For example, two jackasses dressed in the flag head to toe were running around chanting USA! USA! during an otherwise completely silent (except for the sound of crying) memorial for the dead right at the police strips of the WTC shortly after 9/11. I wasn't offended or insulted by the flag per se, but I was incredibly annoyed that they were using the flag in that context to be obnoxious while people were trying to give silent prayers to their lost loved ones. Everyone was just looking at them and shaking their heads as if to say, "How can they not understand how inappropriate they are being?"

Just two weeks earlier, on the day of 9/11, I erupted into tears from the powerful positive emotions I felt when I saw that somebody had put up a single flag on one freeway overpass in Silicon Valley. It was a beautiful way of saying "We're all in this together" in an understated manner.

So while the flag on its own should never be considered insulting or offensive, the context in which the flag is presented (and the symbolism it is therefore intended to represent) can vary dramatically in each situation.

If these kids were donning the American flag shirts with the intent of taunting the Hispanic students with our flag, those students are jackasses and deserve no support from any American, because that's not a proper and respectful use of our flag. But even improper and disrespectful uses of our flag deserve First Amendment protections.



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Re: Thought provoking letter to the editor on immigration

Post by CelticCat » Fri May 28, 2010 10:32 am

Fair enough. But a lot of the comments from various articles on the subject suggest people were offended by the fact someone wore the shirt on "their" day (Cinco de Mayo). The fact that many people have said "What if someone wore a Mexican flag shirt on the 4th of July" to me suggests they weren't so much offended by the flag, but the disrespect it showed towards them. They aren't offended by the flag itself I'm sure, but I still think it is sad that an American flag can be used in such a manner, to show disrespect to other Americans.


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Re: Thought provoking letter to the editor on immigration

Post by Grizlaw » Fri May 28, 2010 1:23 pm

CelticCat wrote:Fair enough. But a lot of the comments from various articles on the subject suggest people were offended by the fact someone wore the shirt on "their" day (Cinco de Mayo). The fact that many people have said "What if someone wore a Mexican flag shirt on the 4th of July" to me suggests they weren't so much offended by the flag, but the disrespect it showed towards them. They aren't offended by the flag itself I'm sure, but I still think it is sad that an American flag can be used in such a manner, to show disrespect to other Americans.
That's true of a lot of things though, right? I mean, the phrase "Merry Christmas" can be offensive to non-Christians, if they think it's being said with the intent of shoving a Christian holiday down their throat rather than with the intent of simply wishing them a good holiday season. Whether the phrase is truly (objectively) offensive or not depends entirely on the intent of the speaker: if said with genuine sincerity, almost anyone (Christian or otherwise) will be happy to hear it; if said with a sarcastic sneer and clearly with the intention of drawing a reaction, then many will find it offensive.

A flag can be used in the same way. If one of my Brazilian friends wants to wear the Brazilian flag, I won't be offended (even if it's the 4th of July). Now, if I knew that the reason he was doing it was that he wanted to make some kind of statement about America -- then yeah, I might be offended (though I still wouldn't deny him his right to wear it). Same goes for these kids in CA: they shouldn't have been punished for wearing the flag, but if it was known that they were doing it just to get a rise out of the Mexican students, then I can understand the Mexican students being angry.


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Re: Thought provoking letter to the editor on immigration

Post by Platinumcat » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:44 pm

The following pretty much sums up my position:


A 1907 PHOTO

The year is 1907, over one hundred years ago.

READ THE PRINT UNDER THE PICTURE!

**For some reason I can't get the photo to show up. It's a picture of Teddy Roosevelt speaking to a large group of people**

US President Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

~

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American. .. There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag.... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language.... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt

1907

Second, there's the pictures that are coming out of desert areas in Arizona from illegal immigrants leaving behind their trash. Here is a link to the snopes article verifying the pictures are true. Absolutely disgusts me that this happens and that there are so many railing against AZ for trying to take matters in to their own hands when the US government won't.
http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/restarea.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Oh, and I'm Jason Wiers, Platinum Property Management

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