Program just got destroyed

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tetoncat
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Re: Program just got destroyed

Post by tetoncat » Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:31 pm

Cat Grad wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:52 pm
tetoncat wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:16 pm
Athletes don't either the first time, and get many more benefits. Even those not on scholarship are getting training and tutors. I don't agree with the feelings that student athletes are taken advantage of. NAIA, D3, D2 don't get the same benefits and still play. These players know what they sign up for.

Using the highest paid coaches as an excuse that players deserve these big NIL deals but then complaining that we need to pay MSU assistants more seem to contradict each other. The majority of colleges lose money on sports and do t have do ors willing to foot the bill.
Virtually every Power 5 Athletic Department is run by a foundation. By law, they must spend every penny. Of course they'll show a loss. Be one hell of an IRS problem were they to try and operate a non-profit as a for profit enterprise.

The Dakota schools have also made the decision to take advantage of FCOA, they have nice NIL contracts for their student-athletes in addition to their decent stipends from the FCOA.

Are you advocating MSU drop to NAIA, DII or DIII?

Again, the Supreme Court has determined the NCAA has been screwing the student-athletes big time in a trillion dollar business. There is now a lawsuit the NCAA will lose whereby many schools are going to have to pay former athletes back pay.

College athletics has been, is and will be for many years to come a multibillion dollar industry annually and the actual workforce has not been compensated.

Edit* For your reading enjoyment:

https://theathletic.com/4381880/2023/04 ... -payments/

Edit 2* As the Athletic is a paywall, this Sports Illustrated article covers the same lawsuit:

https://www.si.com/college/2023/04/04/n ... se-hubbard
You come across as a jilted athlete who thinks they didn't get their share and are angry at the establishment. Thanks for all the links. I have no interest in reading them. I have an opinion. Different than yours. I do not believe MSU is making millions and millions.


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Bobcat4Ever
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Re: Program just got destroyed

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:22 am

tetoncat wrote: I do not believe MSU is making millions and millions.
Exactly. So athletes are suing the NCAA to force the colleges to pay “back wages” based on the millions and millions that have been made “on their backs.” Well, fair is fair. Alabama will be sending out some nice checks. And Montana State is going to be sending out some whopping big bills.
Last edited by Bobcat4Ever on Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.



GoodTimesAllTheTime
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Re: Program just got destroyed

Post by GoodTimesAllTheTime » Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:35 am

tetoncat wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:31 pm
Cat Grad wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:52 pm
tetoncat wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:16 pm
Athletes don't either the first time, and get many more benefits. Even those not on scholarship are getting training and tutors. I don't agree with the feelings that student athletes are taken advantage of. NAIA, D3, D2 don't get the same benefits and still play. These players know what they sign up for.

Using the highest paid coaches as an excuse that players deserve these big NIL deals but then complaining that we need to pay MSU assistants more seem to contradict each other. The majority of colleges lose money on sports and do t have do ors willing to foot the bill.
Virtually every Power 5 Athletic Department is run by a foundation. By law, they must spend every penny. Of course they'll show a loss. Be one hell of an IRS problem were they to try and operate a non-profit as a for profit enterprise.

The Dakota schools have also made the decision to take advantage of FCOA, they have nice NIL contracts for their student-athletes in addition to their decent stipends from the FCOA.

Are you advocating MSU drop to NAIA, DII or DIII?

Again, the Supreme Court has determined the NCAA has been screwing the student-athletes big time in a trillion dollar business. There is now a lawsuit the NCAA will lose whereby many schools are going to have to pay former athletes back pay.

College athletics has been, is and will be for many years to come a multibillion dollar industry annually and the actual workforce has not been compensated.

Edit* For your reading enjoyment:

https://theathletic.com/4381880/2023/04 ... -payments/

Edit 2* As the Athletic is a paywall, this Sports Illustrated article covers the same lawsuit:

https://www.si.com/college/2023/04/04/n ... se-hubbard
You come across as a jilted athlete who thinks they didn't get their share and are angry at the establishment. Thanks for all the links. I have no interest in reading them. I have an opinion. Different than yours. I do not believe MSU is making millions and millions.
Your opinion is not equally valuable if you aren’t interested in educating yourself and having informed opinions.



tetoncat
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Re: Program just got destroyed

Post by tetoncat » Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:22 am

GoodTimesAllTheTime wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:35 am
tetoncat wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:31 pm
Cat Grad wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:52 pm
tetoncat wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:16 pm
Athletes don't either the first time, and get many more benefits. Even those not on scholarship are getting training and tutors. I don't agree with the feelings that student athletes are taken advantage of. NAIA, D3, D2 don't get the same benefits and still play. These players know what they sign up for.

Using the highest paid coaches as an excuse that players deserve these big NIL deals but then complaining that we need to pay MSU assistants more seem to contradict each other. The majority of colleges lose money on sports and do t have do ors willing to foot the bill.
Virtually every Power 5 Athletic Department is run by a foundation. By law, they must spend every penny. Of course they'll show a loss. Be one hell of an IRS problem were they to try and operate a non-profit as a for profit enterprise.

The Dakota schools have also made the decision to take advantage of FCOA, they have nice NIL contracts for their student-athletes in addition to their decent stipends from the FCOA.

Are you advocating MSU drop to NAIA, DII or DIII?

Again, the Supreme Court has determined the NCAA has been screwing the student-athletes big time in a trillion dollar business. There is now a lawsuit the NCAA will lose whereby many schools are going to have to pay former athletes back pay.

College athletics has been, is and will be for many years to come a multibillion dollar industry annually and the actual workforce has not been compensated.

Edit* For your reading enjoyment:

https://theathletic.com/4381880/2023/04 ... -payments/

Edit 2* As the Athletic is a paywall, this Sports Illustrated article covers the same lawsuit:

https://www.si.com/college/2023/04/04/n ... se-hubbard
You come across as a jilted athlete who thinks they didn't get their share and are angry at the establishment. Thanks for all the links. I have no interest in reading them. I have an opinion. Different than yours. I do not believe MSU is making millions and millions.
Your opinion is not equally valuable if you aren’t interested in educating yourself and having informed opinions.
I am quite educated, thank you. Do you feel that MSU has the capacity to raise salaries to the bloated levels listed, as well as pay NIL deals higher than professor salaries because MSU athletes have been getting screwed, just because the courts said so against the NCAA.


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thefrank1
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Re: Program just got destroyed

Post by thefrank1 » Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:37 am

This thread needs a DMC (dick measuring contest) label.


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tetoncat
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Re: Program just got destroyed

Post by tetoncat » Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:33 pm

thefrank1 wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:37 am
This thread needs a DMC (dick measuring contest) label.
Nah, just the normal. Seems you can only have one opinion and if you don't agree your either not a real fan, don't donate enough, or just don't understand sports. Think I'll go back to just reading and leave all the commenting to the "experts". I'm OUT


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Bobcat4Ever
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Re: Program just got destroyed

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:49 pm

tetoncat wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:33 pm
thefrank1 wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:37 am
This thread needs a DMC (dick measuring contest) label.
Nah, just the normal. Seems you can only have one opinion and if you don't agree your either not a real fan, don't donate enough, or just don't understand sports. Think I'll go back to just reading and leave all the commenting to the "experts". I'm OUT
-1 I like your posts.



Catlady
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Re: Program just got destroyed

Post by Catlady » Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:15 pm

thefrank1 wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:37 am
This thread needs a DMC (dick measuring contest) label.
Can’t win that one…….



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bobcatfan15
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Re: Program just got destroyed

Post by bobcatfan15 » Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:21 pm

Catlady wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:15 pm
thefrank1 wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:37 am
This thread needs a DMC (dick measuring contest) label.
Can’t win that one…….
:lol: :lol: :lol:

+1. Me too.


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Cat Grad
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Re: Program just got destroyed

Post by Cat Grad » Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:31 pm

bobcatfan15 wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:21 pm
Catlady wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:15 pm
thefrank1 wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:37 am
This thread needs a DMC (dick measuring contest) label.
Can’t win that one…….
:lol: :lol: :lol:

+1. Me too.

Don't volunteer to be judges...



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Bobcat4Ever
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Re: Program just got destroyed

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:42 pm

Cat Grad wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:31 pm
bobcatfan15 wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:21 pm
Catlady wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:15 pm
thefrank1 wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:37 am
This thread needs a DMC (dick measuring contest) label.
Can’t win that one…….
:lol: :lol: :lol:

+1. Me too.

Don't volunteer to be judges...
😂 🔎



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CelticCat
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Re: Program just got destroyed

Post by CelticCat » Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:49 pm

bobcatfan15 wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:21 pm
Catlady wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:15 pm
thefrank1 wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:37 am
This thread needs a DMC (dick measuring contest) label.
Can’t win that one…….
:lol: :lol: :lol:

+1. Me too.
I mean I can measure as well as anyone else.


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BobcatDel
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Re: Program just got destroyed

Post by BobcatDel » Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:53 pm

Catlady wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2023 1:05 pm
BobcatDel wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:38 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:06 am
thefrank1 wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:36 am
I agree with your conclusion on Leon and the quality of this hire.

As a mid level septuagenarian, I have a different take on your acceptance conclusion. I believe that one's ability to accept change is largely driven by the ability to think critically. I acknowledge that us older folk got less training in critical thinking so my generation not generally does have the same level of critical thinking skills as later generations. The increase in critical thinkiing skills gives me hope that the future is bright.
I’m a younger person, and I’m not going to pretend I like the constant changing of roster and coaches…but it’s difficult for me to grasp how people don’t understand why it’s happening and how it’s not awful. It’s not going to change, so we just gotta Buck up and live with it. I love sports (too much sometimes) but at the end of the day it’s just entertainment. I’m not going to live and breathe off of if we’re good or not, that’s not healthy.
People understand why it's happening and we can debate until blue in the face if it is good or bad for the program. And most people are realistic in the fact we are going to live with it, but that doesn't mean we have to like it. You may but I'm not but I still realize we will operate in the system and I hope we are successful.

We have people on the board calling the players (under the old system) as "prisoners" or "indentured servants".... which is absolutely bizarre to the nth degree. The players are students first and young adults who made a decision...they explored playing opportunities on their own, they signed commitment letters to play at MSU or other schools with no coercion and the school made commitments to them in terms of scholarships or walk-on etc, and the players had the choice at any time to leave on their own volition..... its just the new system allows them to leave at will with no penalty to wait a year to play. And I like to think they are walking away from a commitment or are at least unappreciative of the commitment of what the university has done for them.... besides providing an education for $80,000 to $100,000 or booster clubs paying for summer school so they could graduate in 3 years vs. 4 years (graduating in 3 years was not common in olden times) or providing coaching and training facilities at student and taxpayer dollars so they could grow their skills and show it on the floor making their value increase to outside schools.

Now if you are a supporter like me (as I suspect many on the board are) you support the program via your season ticket purchase, your Montana tax dollars, your niece or nephew who contribute through their student fees, and who support through giving to their booster club. All those dollars support a MBB program that barely breaks even and a WBB program that loses several hundred thousand dollars each year. We aren't a Kentucky with their large funding pool or Texas who has a $750Million TV contract to keep the program thriving. Part of the reason I send my dollars to support the kids is because of the quality of kids we get as students first and athletes second...and for the quality of programs we put on the floor with the limited dollars we have. We are never going to compete with the big schools and one could question whether we are taking away dollars that should go to academics rather than funneled to athletics. And I personally enjoy getting to know the kids better, watching them grow and develop, hearing what they are doing in their career after athletics, etc... I am really not into the commercial athletics gig.

Lets have fun.... how bout we try a couple things.

First, lets take it to the Montana tax payers and then the ASMSU student body and see if they agree with continued funding of "one and done" athletes? If we lose the vote, lets raise all the funds for athletic scholarships via donor funding and allow the athletes and donors come to contract terms for how long they stay....or

Second, lets put in place a contract like the coaches have. You know when a head coach leaves he has to "buy out" the balance of his contract... which is normally bought out by the new school. Lets just say that we assume a new incoming athlete commits to four years at a scholarship of $30,000/yr (out of state kid) and lets just assume the coaching and development they receive is worth $50/hr (cheap if you look at health clubs now) and the training facilities they used is worth $50/hr and their exposure on the court that is televised advertising their skills is worth another $200 per hour. Lets just let them go to a new school but if they leave a year early the new team they went to would have to "buy-out" a year of their commitment. If they were a starter or top 7 player the new school pays 100% and if a bench sitter then 50%.

Third, lets drop any athletic program that can't at least break even with ticket sales or booster funds within three years of using the new system of using the portal.

Fourth, lets expand the program to high school athletics on a broad scale. Sitting up athletic development centers in Billings, Bozeman, Great Falls, Helena where they pick the best junior high athletes in the state and develop them if they commit to playing at the AA schools and stay in state at the college level. That includes taking them from Class C, B, A schools and allowing them to move at their choice to the development centers under full cost reimbursement.

I don't know, I'm being factitious at bit...but I am beginning to wonder if I would rather take my dollars and set up a nursing or engineering scholarship for some kid willing to work at it rather than play the "paid compensation game for athletes.

But yep, I fully understand it is the new system and I will live with it. But some of my "heart" is no longer there. Maybe time will tell.

And please don't lecture me about the commitment... I remember working for a company that would pay my way for going to graduate school but I had to commit to stay three years. If I left I understood I had a commitment to pay back a year or two of the sponsored education. Life is tough... make a decision and accept the consequences.
The Dictionary is an amazing source……. Here’s the definition. I’m not saying I agree or disagree, but you’re the one that wants to penalize the player if they leave!

Indentured servant Definition & Meaning
Merriam-Webster
https://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › inde...
The meaning of INDENTURED SERVANT is a person who signs and is bound by indentures to work for another for a specified time not me. especially in return for payment
You are the one who said they are “indentured servants” not me so I’m curious why you used that terminology if as you say “I’m not saying I agree or disagree”. And I stand by my comment that it’s a bizarre way to describe it.

The kids always had the freedom to walk away at any time. Life is like that you know. You or I walk through life making decisions and with each there are always consequences……some of those are not positive and some are….and if it’s the right decision for you well good! As long as you understand what the penalty is and you want to move on….well go for it! But don’t expect me to feel bad for you and don’t expect me to continue to “relish” paying tax, student fee and booster dollars to pay to kids that feel like they have no loyalty to a program and are just there to hype their skills and move on. Sorry. And yes I understand younger folks seem to have less loyalty to jobs, having expectations they are more “entitled” than perhaps us oldsters…every time I read some of the polls by age groups on topics it comes through clearly…a recent survey in the Wall Street Journal brought it home again. At least for booster dollars that I can control I want to send them to a young man or woman that doesn’t have the ability to pay for college in a degree program that’s going to set them up for a life skill and they are willing to work hard to achieve. I love to watch athletics so I’ll buy my season tickets to watch but I’ll let you pick up the booster dollar slack. And that’s OK…you do you and I’ll do me.

Both Kola and Darian are kids that did it right in my opinion. Darian came in from a tough youth situation with the loss of her mom and she came into a nurturing program like Coach Binford runs and she stuck it out four years where she could have played at a higher level probably after her first year. She gave back to someone who took her in and created an environment she could thrive in personally and athletically. Kola came in suffering a severe knee injury as a senior in high school…a lot of schools don’t take a chance on kids with severe injuries….she took advantage of the trainers at MSU, the strength snd conditioning provided by strength coaches, the nutrition specialist, the one on one assistant coaching, the academic specialist who follows up when kids are out of class so much, the laptops provided by boosters to keep up studies on the road, the patience of a coaching staff to work and develop her through her recovery to build her to an all conference performer…she stuck it out at MSU for her four years and is an ambassador wherever she played for MSU….and her personal commitment to the “No More Lost Sisters” would not have happened if she had moved on and without the support of great leadership by Binford, Costello, and Cruzado. Was that commitment by the university to support a cause important to so many in the Native American community worth nothing to you…and not worthy of Kola sticking it out 4 years….(she could have looked around as a rising star and left after 3).

I’ve said enough…no more comments from me. And it’s OK for you to think one way and me another.



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RickRund
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Re: Program just got destroyed

Post by RickRund » Mon Apr 24, 2023 7:41 pm

As for WBB we have been blessed with a number of awesome Ladies and a Coach that truly cares. Side note here, has anyone watched the TV series Alaska Daily, think it is ABC. Hilary Swank is the lead and is surrounded by cast of Native Americans. It puts the sad plight of Native American women out there for all to see. We both really like the show as there is a massive void of watchable tv...


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