The Bobcat Nation

********** Opinion Alert **********

I am going to label this as purely opinion, because well that is what it is... along with a whole lot of conjecture, but it is based on talking to quite a few people about the events. Not all of them agreed a whole cloth, but enough that I was able to develop my own opinions of the events of last week. I am not going to state facts or figures , but have gone out of my way to generalise things as best I can. You can take it or leave it.

I thought about putting this in one of the other dozen Kramer to Idaho threads, but chose to put it in it's own thread to make it clear. What I am about to say is based on talking to a very connected Idaho booster I have known for many many years, and a small handful of Bobcat folks. That said the only people who really know what happened is Kramer and Spears, but there is a certain commonality that does come to the surface.

Right now the big debate is did Kramer withdrew his name because he knew, he was not going to get the Job. The other line thought is that Kramer, withdrew his name because he truly felt the move was not right for him. Critic's of the Bobcat program (and some of us Bobcat as well) want to believe the first idea while the Bobcat faithful tend to want to believe the second.

From the Idaho side the story goes Kramer entered the interview like a bull in the China Shop and after Spears experience with Erickson he (Spears) is/was looking to maintain more control over the program. From the Bobcat camp I hear Kramer wanted the job, he in his mind had a plan, he went into the interview as we would expect Kramer, opinionated, full of energy, and brutally honest. It is said that Kramer laid out a plan that involved football AND the athletic department to get it on track. I think Spears finally realized the force of nature that is Kramer.

For those who know Kramer do you think Kramer would walk into a situation where he may be set up for failure or if he had doubts?

I am also told that, the arrest last week had a big impact on Kramer when they were first announced, but as the day's went on they weighed on his mind and also his pride. This quote from a friend (I hope he doesn't mind me using it)

"<Mslacat> I know this may sound like what you would expect me <a big Kramer supporter> to say, but I truly believe that the idea of leaving MSU with a dark cloud over it's head, that may be attributed to him in years to come, weighed heavily on Kramer. Kramer is so damn prideful"

So in my opinion I think both above are correct. Possibly, when Kramer left Idaho he knew he had seriously ruffled some feather, like wise Spears had to consider could he handle a force like Kramer. On the other hand though no decisions had been made, Idaho was not even close, and Kramer was a very much still in the running. Kramer also had a very long trip home to think about Idaho and Montana State. So when on Friday Spears and Kramer said it was mutual decision, that may have actually, for once, have been the most truest reason for Kramer pulling out.

Remember this though in three years (+/- a year) when the Idaho job opens up again (and it will) I feel confident Kramer will be looking at it very hard again (and god help us if WSU opens up)

Just opinion and conjecture!!

I can live with that.

Thanks for the research. What you say certainly sounds quite plausible.

http://www.bobcatnation.com/bobcatboard ... php?t=9048

Isn't this what Krames and Spears said 3 days ago, or am I mssing something?

Bleedinbluengold wrote: http://www.bobcatnation.com/bobcatboard ... php?t=9048

Isn't this what Krames and Spears said 3 days ago, or am I mssing something?

yep

So, your "opinion" is that Krames and Spears are to be believed?

Well ... I think it is safe to assume that everyone takes press release talk and translates it into English based on their own set of assumptions and experiences (I am pretty sure that few high ranking corporate or government officials quit their jobs during periods of poor publicity to spend more time with their family, for instance, despite the fact that so many press releases indicate this to be the case) ... so I personally found mslacat's digging to be helpful to sort to determine whether the press release figures of speech/euphemisms actually matched reality. If they do (as mslacat suggests), then this case is the exception to the rule.

Bay Area Cat wrote:Well ... I think it is safe to assume that everyone takes press release talk and translates it into English based on their own set of assumptions and experiences (I am pretty sure that few high ranking corporate or government officials quit their jobs during periods of poor publicity to spend more time with their family, for instance, despite the fact that so many press releases indicate this to be the case) ... so I personally found mslacat's digging to be helpful to sort to determine whether the press release figures of speech/euphemisms actually matched reality. If they do (as mslacat suggests), then this case is the exception to the rule.

I think BAC pretty much sums it up. I am personally usually very skeptical of the old "I have with drawn my name from consideration" and then 24 hours later the new coach is named. So when the debate ensued I was curious myself. I tend to believe for once that the statement that was released it was as accurate as any I have ever heard. In my opinion it treated as such. Others may disagree, but I feel very comfortable with the released statement.

After talking to some of the boosters and officials in the athletic department Saturday night, I believe what you said is probably the closest we'll ever come to the actual happenings. They told me that things weren't set up that way Kramer hoped they would be.

The department structure and the environment were not ideal for him to get things done the way he wanted. That pretty much sounds like what you said. It sounded like neither Kramer nor Spears represented themselves the way the other hoped they would.

Who cares, as long as he's staying, that's all that matters to me. Quit looking for the negatives people and embrace the positive.

It just wasn't a good fit...they weren't going to offer him the job. He withdrew to move on...and worry about MSU...that says something.

cat92 wrote:It just wasn't a good fit...they weren't going to offer him the job. He withdrew to move on...and worry about MSU...that says something.

I doubt it. There was a lot of psychology going on in this instance. I think that he didn't get as positive of a feeling as he was expecting. When expectations and reality have a gap, that causes unease. That unease, coupled with Kramer's feelings of guilt or unfinished business, prompted him to take himself out of the running.

It seems highly unlikely that Idaho told Kramer to remove himself to help him save face, if they had then Spears never would've said they came to a mutual agreement. He would've said that Kramer did in fact pull himself out of the running to effectively assist him in saving face. That would've been the trade off. (We won't hire you, so remove yourself and we'll take a portion of the fall). Had it been the other way (and if anything it is), then Kramer would've offered them a concession, which is more what this is like than the other scenario. So it looks more like Kramer made the decision and then to help them save face he went ahead and said that he 'perceived' a bad vibe and Spear got to say it was mutual.

Kramer loves to tell it like it is. He also said 'this isn't national security', so what the hell does he need to save face for? Kramer has his faults, but hiding the truth isn't one of them.

crazycat wrote:

cat92 wrote:It just wasn't a good fit...they weren't going to offer him the job. He withdrew to move on...and worry about MSU...that says something.

I doubt it. There was a lot of psychology going on in this instance. I think that he didn't get as positive of a feeling as he was expecting. When expectations and reality have a gap, that causes unease. That unease, coupled with Kramer's feelings of guilt or unfinished business, prompted him to take himself out of the running.

It seems highly unlikely that Idaho told Kramer to remove himself to help him save face, if they had then Spears never would've said they came to a mutual agreement. He would've said that Kramer did in fact pull himself out of the running to effectively assist him in saving face. That would've been the trade off. (We won't hire you, so remove yourself and we'll take a portion of the fall). Had it been the other way (and if anything it is), then Kramer would've offered them a concession, which is more what this is like than the other scenario. So it looks more like Kramer made the decision and then to help them save face he went ahead and said that he 'perceived' a bad vibe and Spear got to say it was mutual.

Kramer loves to tell it like it is. He also said 'this isn't national security', so what the hell does he need to save face for? Kramer has his faults, but hiding the truth isn't one of them.

Excellent post - Kramer was certainly devasted by the drug bust news. I'm willing to bet that he talked himself out of the Idaho job - probalby while talking to Spears about it - and let's face it - Kramer is a BIG FISH in a small pond in Montana. A lot of work but a lot of praise and kudos - Idaho, while it's his alma matter would have been a ton of work with little return for a LONG time (compared to MSU when Kramer took over, Idaho is light years behind).

I think if Kramer can keep things going and clean up some lose ends it is very possible he could land in Pullman. I'm not sure what their status is with their coach, but they should be looking over their shoulder back at what Kramer is going to be doing.

BozCatFan wrote:I think if Kramer can keep things going and clean up some lose ends it is very possible he could land in Pullman. I'm not sure what their status is with their coach, but they should be looking over their shoulder back at what Kramer is going to be doing.

I think it's important to remember that these recent charges are for crimes committed around the time that the murder occurred and I'd have to conclude they're connected if Fuller lived with LeBrum.

I don't think there have been any drug-related crimes since that incident. Correct me if I'm wrong. This would then lead me to believe that the measures set forth after the murder have been yielding positive results. It's not MSU's fault that Fuller wasn't arrested until December.

crazycat, good point.