Just Win Baby

Blue and Gold · Post by **Blue and Gold** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:36 am

While we all consider Kramer's looming departure and the recent arrests, the future status of our athletic program is in question. Say what you will but Kramer and Bobcat football is the heart of MSU athletics.

Not long ago many on this board were calling for Kramer's head when it seemed our playoff hopes were over. He righted the ship, and was once again one step closer to hero status.

The entire time many of us knew about some of the off-field problems, along with poor gradutation rates. But so what? We were winning.

Will the members of this board, the boosters, and fans support the new coaching staff if they stumble in the wins category while trying to bring greater integrity to our program?

I ask this because Hysell ran a clean program, did decent on the field, and was ran out of town with little regard for his loyalty and pride. He was a disciplinarian for sure.

As we evaluate Kramer's tenure, and I would argue he ran a loose program, but I would argue he was bringing in the best athletes he could to "just win baby". Because as of late, losing is not an option...not for the fans nor for the budget of MSU Athletics.

bobcatmaniac · Post by **bobcatmaniac** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:42 am

You make a good point, but I argue that there are various shades of the black and white scenarios you painted. I bet the winning programs out there would take you to task basically accusing them of having cocaine dealing murderers on their roster, and if they don't welcome that kind of athlete, they will lose. Hopefully there are ways to win other than being involved in the drug scene.

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:45 am

B&G - I don't know where you got the idea that Hys was ran out of town. He resigned due to illness, and because HE knew he could not put in the amount of time and effort to be head coach and try to get better.

What you said about Hys is crazy talk.

To answer your question about winning. If the program takes a step back any way, the new coaching staff will be run out of town.

CPACAT · Post by **CPACAT** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:14 am

From what I have seen it appears that most but not all of the off field problems referenced were caused by people no longer with the program. It does not seem logical to place blame with the coaching staff for these problems. They have enough on their plate dealing with the athletes that are in the program let alone those that are no longer with the program.

B & G references poor graduation rates. I would like to see actual numbers rather than vague references. What is the graduation rate of each program, what is the graduation rate of the shcool as a whole and what time periods are you referencing?

What some people call questionable recruits another may call giving a young man an opportunity. If you say we are recruiting athletes with questionable character then give me facts that show we knew or should have known that a particular athlete would be a problem when we recruited him. The fact that an athlete turned out to be a bad apple after he was here for a while is irrelevant if you had no reason to suspect this behavior when he was recruited.

As far as I know we are not violating NCAA rules in our programs, so the fact that some former athletes who were not with the program when they got in trouble does not indicate that our athletic programs are out of control.

I have also seen a lot of posts complaining about our recruiting practices. Most of the athletes on the team are high caliber individuals and to make blanket statements about the athletes and the programs in unfair.

The bottom line is everyone loves a winner as people will put up with a certain level of unpleasantness as long as you are winning.