Kramer and recruiting

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:12 am

For those of you who watched the Kramer show on Altitude on Friday did you see the part where they were interviewing Taito? I love the part where he said he really liked Don Bailey and what he brings to the table offensively as well as he said his pick was a DONE DEAL when his mom met Kramer

She loved the guy.

This my friends is the little things that Kramer does that helps bring a LOT of talent to MSU that know one ever sees. I tell a lot of my friends that I don't see how a high school kid wouldn't sign right away on the dotted line when the player/family meets Kramer. Bailey is also involved in bringing in a LOT of the talent you see on the field each and every week so he does a lot more than just call the X and O's on offense etc.

I just thought it was cool to hear Taito say that because if I was a stud H.S player coming out and I got to hear Kramer talk to me and my parents in my house I would sign right there and then.

WYCAT · Post by **WYCAT** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:16 am

I did see that interview and had the same thoughts. I think Rasmussen falls into the same type of situation. He had some other options than MSU but he and his family really like the coaching staff and he was (I am hoping) a huge signing.

catsrback76 · Post by **catsrback76** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:36 am

CARDIAC_CATS wrote:For those of you who watched the Kramer show on Altitude on Friday did you see the part where they were interviewing Taito? I love the part where he said he really liked Don Bailey and what he brings to the table offensively as well as he said his pick was a DONE DEAL when his mom met Kramer She loved the guy.

This my friends is the little things that Kramer does that helps bring a LOT of talent to MSU that know one ever sees. I tell a lot of my friends that I don't see how a high school kid wouldn't sign right away on the dotted line when the player/family meets Kramer. Bailey is also involved in bringing in a LOT of the talent you see on the field each and every week so he does a lot more than just call the X and O's on offense etc.

I just thought it was cool to hear Taito say that because if I was a stud H.S player coming out and I got to hear Kramer talk to me and my parents in my house I would sign right there and then.

I agree Cardiac, leadership is more than X's and O's, it is rapport, and the ability to handle crisis. I think we have seen Kramer handle crisis this year as well, with the 3 game skid. The heat was on, and whatever HE did with the defense was right on. Great Job Coach.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:45 am

catsrback76 wrote:
CARDIAC_CATS wrote:For those of you who watched the Kramer show on Altitude on Friday did you see the part where they were interviewing Taito? I love the part where he said he really liked Don Bailey and what he brings to the table offensively as well as he said his pick was a DONE DEAL when his mom met Kramer She loved the guy.

This my friends is the little things that Kramer does that helps bring a LOT of talent to MSU that know one ever sees. I tell a lot of my friends that I don't see how a high school kid wouldn't sign right away on the dotted line when the player/family meets Kramer. Bailey is also involved in bringing in a LOT of the talent you see on the field each and every week so he does a lot more than just call the X and O's on offense etc.

I just thought it was cool to hear Taito say that because if I was a stud H.S player coming out and I got to hear Kramer talk to me and my parents in my house I would sign right there and then.
I agree Cardiac, leadership is more than X's and O's, it is rapport, and the ability to handle crisis. I think we have seen Kramer handle crisis this year as well, with the 3 game skid. The heat was on, and whatever HE did with the defense was right on. Great Job Coach.

Yep, football is way too chemistry oriented game to predict what will happen (just ask Colorado

). Way too many external things can shake any football team up. This just doesn't happen to just the Cats etc. Look at Carolina, TB early in the year. Both those teams are trying to rebound AND BOTH HAVE VERY VERY GOOD coaches and players. Of all the games we lost the EWU I think hurts the most as you could tell we were RIGHT on the EDGE of starting to play well (we had 7 out of 8 cylinders running). Then the next week our motor was purring. So we just need to remain focus, give 110% effort, have fun and HIT HARD ON D and we take care of business this week. I want to see the players come in focussed like they were for the Portland State game and do their TALKING ON THE FIELD this week. Do not get into the rowdy atmosphere that you will see there this weekend. We need to remain focussed and the coaches need to make sure the team remains focused through all 4 quarters. Do that and you can celebrate all you want at the END of the game.

If you don't, Weber is going to come in and knock us off. And we don't want that feeling in our stomachs again do we players/fans

And as always, remember D

--> WR catches a pass, HIT EM HARD! WR drops a pass, HIT EM HARD! PHYSICALITY! Do that and the WR's do NOT get in a comfort zone. BAM!

G.W.Bush · Post by **G.W.Bush** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:47 pm

CARDIAC_CATS wrote:For those of you who watched the Kramer show on Altitude on Friday did you see the part where they were interviewing Taito? I love the part where he said he really liked Don Bailey and what he brings to the table offensively as well as he said his pick was a DONE DEAL when his mom met Kramer She loved the guy.

This my friends is the little things that Kramer does that helps bring a LOT of talent to MSU that know one ever sees. I tell a lot of my friends that I don't see how a high school kid wouldn't sign right away on the dotted line when the player/family meets Kramer. Bailey is also involved in bringing in a LOT of the talent you see on the field each and every week so he does a lot more than just call the X and O's on offense etc.

I just thought it was cool to hear Taito say that because if I was a stud H.S player coming out and I got to hear Kramer talk to me and my parents in my house I would sign right there and then.

I would be interested to hear what players that have been forced out of the system would have to say about Bailey and Kramer; i.e. QBs John Knocki, Kevin Flatow and Coppack. I really doubt any current players would say anything bad about the coaching staff...

DriftCat · Post by **DriftCat** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:53 pm

If they were forced out it was probably for a reason such as: talent (lack of), not fitting into the system, bad attitude, etc. Come on GW, do you really have to find something negative to say about the coaching staff on every thread? It is getting tiresome.

G.W.Bush · Post by **G.W.Bush** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:05 pm

MM7CAT wrote:If they were forced out it was probably for a reason such as: talent (lack of), not fitting into the system, bad attitude, etc. Come on GW, do you really have to find something negative to say about the coaching staff on every thread? It is getting tiresome.

I just want people to see both sides. I could be a rah-rah guy all the time too, but we have plenty of those here already.

If a player leaves because they didn’t go to practice, skipped school, or something along those lines then they should lose their scholarship. But a guy like Coppack losing his scholarship is bull. The kid’s family moved from California to watch their son play for the Cats, and Kramer cuts him because he didn’t need him. Coppack might have had other opportunities for a career, but he bought into Kramer’s program and when Kramer didn’t need him he said goodbye. I have a problem treating a player like that. I am sure that if Kramer would have been honest and told him, “If you don’t pan out we will cut you 3 years down the road,” then he sure wouldn’t have come to MSU. I really think that the coaches owe a little more to a player than that. I ask anyone to go back and look how many 4-5 year guys Kramer has sent through his system. I think that shows a lot about who and how Kramer recruits. I would wager that not even 20% of his freshman graduate from MSU.

Platinumcat · Post by **Platinumcat** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:12 pm

G.W.Bush wrote:
MM7CAT wrote:If they were forced out it was probably for a reason such as: talent (lack of), not fitting into the system, bad attitude, etc. Come on GW, do you really have to find something negative to say about the coaching staff on every thread? It is getting tiresome.
I just want people to see both sides. I could be a rah-rah guy all the time too, but we have plenty of those here already.

If a player leaves because they didn’t go to practice, skipped school, or something along those lines then they should lose their scholarship. But a guy like Coppack losing his scholarship is bull. The kid’s family moved from California to watch their son play for the Cats, and Kramer cuts him because he didn’t need him. Coppack might have had other opportunities for a career, but he bought into Kramer’s program and when Kramer didn’t need him he said goodbye. I have a problem treating a player like that. I am sure that if Kramer would have been honest and told him, “If you don’t pan out we will cut you 3 years down the road,” then he sure wouldn’t have come to MSU. I really think that the coaches owe a little more to a player than that. I ask anyone to go back and look how many 4-5 year guys Kramer has sent through his system. I think that shows a lot about who and how Kramer recruits. I would wager that not even 20% of his freshman graduate from MSU.

In regards to the Coppack remark, do you have specific knowledge that Kramer took his scholarship away? I don't. Is it possible that he sat down with him, laid out his potential to play and Coppack made the decision to leave?
Very curious as to what you know here.

I'm not sure where to look for your stats you have asked for. I may do some digging..

DriftCat · Post by **DriftCat** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:16 pm

Rick? Is that you? So what should Kramer have done, said hey Coppack you don't have the talent to start for us but go ahead and stick around, we could use you as a punching bag during practice. Every recruit either pans out or they don't. The fact that he did not lead him on by telling him to stick around when he knew Coppack would not play is a good thing in my opinion. Kramer's job is to put the best players he can on the field. If he does not feel like you are working out he has every right to cut you and find someone he thinks will.

G.W.Bush · Post by **G.W.Bush** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:25 pm

Kramer takes players scholarships away from them (you have to resign your scholarship papers every spring), he doesn’t tell them “hey you can stay but you won’t play.” They leave because they don’t have a choice (they can’t afford to pay their own tuition). I guess I shouldn’t look at it from the standpoint of being a father, an uncle, or a friend or for that matter even a player. I should look at it from Kramer’s standpoint only…

DriftCat · Post by **DriftCat** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:43 pm

So if he feels a player is not cutting it and will not play he should renew that player's scholarship? That does not make much sense. Life is not always fair but like I said it's Kramers job to put the best possible players on the field.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:44 pm

G.W.Bush wrote:Kramer takes players scholarships away from them (you have to resign your scholarship papers every spring), he doesn’t tell them “hey you can stay but you won’t play.” They leave because they don’t have a choice (they can’t afford to pay their own tuition). I guess I shouldn’t look at it from the standpoint of being a father, an uncle, or a friend or for that matter even a player. I should look at it from Kramer’s standpoint only…

When your #3 on the depth chart things are going to be that way. Coppack was clearly #3 on the depth chart behind Carpenter and Lulay so my bet he was seeing the writing on the wall and couldn't handle the Cats going out and getting a solid transfer in Rolovich. Kramer is going to put the player on the field who he thinks is going to give us the best chance to win (and not make mistakes that can cost a team). He has every right to do this as he is the head coach. College Athletics and the Pros are not free rides. You either produce or they will find someone that will etc. So I don't blame Coppack for going somewhere where he could play more and that was a smart move. There are lots of players in the NCAA that transfer away (bad fit/grades/new start etc.). To say that Kramer is the only coach in the NCAA that has this happen is not fair at all. Kramer has also GIVEN a lot of players a 2nd chance coming in here and they have all been VERY HAPPY at MSU (how about Wheaton/Jefferson/Henderson) etc.

alasax · Post by **alasax** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:45 pm

I'm positive this doesn't happen at any other school.

If a player gets a scholarship, does that mean a school MUST keep him/her on even if they are not improving or will not play because others in the program did?
Sounds to me like a life lesson. You must always work to either get to the top or stay there.
Too often kids get a positive stroke and then coast.
And as always, there are going to be exceptions. Life isn't always fair.
Sorry, no rose colored glasses here.

ContactMod4NewUsername · Post by **ContactMod4NewUsername** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:57 pm

G.W.Bush wrote:Kramer takes players scholarships away from them (you have to resign your scholarship papers every spring), he doesn’t tell them “hey you can stay but you won’t play.” They leave because they don’t have a choice (they can’t afford to pay their own tuition). I guess I shouldn’t look at it from the standpoint of being a father, an uncle, or a friend or for that matter even a player. I should look at it from Kramer’s standpoint only…

Dear ---- (AKA GW Bush),

Time to call you out. Your Anti-Kramer rants are getting old. I looked back at all of your posts, and I would say a good 90% of them are Anti-Kramer.

Did you think that Kramer was a terrible special teams coach when Corey Smith and Junior Adams were taking kicks to the house on a weekly basis?

I haven't heard you say much about your favorite whipping by (Bailey) over the past few weeks. Who's next Christoff? Do you still contend that Bailey is a terrible coach?

Now you think that Kramer is someone who you can't trust? I guarantee you that Coppack knew that his scholarship was going to get cut. Roosevelt knew the same thing. College football is a business, if you do not perform you get cut. That is the rule for players/coaches/administrators...etc.

What exactly is your beef with this coaching staff? Did you get your schollie cut?

I would love to hear your answers to these questions.

tetoncat · Post by **tetoncat** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:56 pm

GW, you have ripped on the coaching staff many times on here for their lack of performance. This must be because you do not like for the Cats to lose. Why then would we keep kids just to honor a scholarship when they have no chance of playing. Coppack got a chance at a great education for 3 years for free. I just hope my kids get that chance. If he had wanted he could have paid his own way, like many kids do and finished up his degree then go get a job. What else is there, How many Cats go to the NFL. Get real GW you cannot have it both ways here.

Post by **rtb** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:59 pm

GW - more and more people have stepped up to the plate lately when they are close to a situation and let their identity be known to the posters here. Do you want to follow suit?

Hardhitter · Post by **Hardhitter** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:43 pm

Something to consider here:

1. Take a look at where our most efficient players are from and look at who on the coaching staff recruits that area. Don Bailey is not a excellent recruiter. I believe he is a great coach and knows his stuff....but a topnotch recruiter he is not.

2. When a staff cuts a players...really they should place the blame on themselves for mis-evaluating that player. Rick Coppack was good enough to play here and was cut. Never even given a real chance. I support what the staff is doing now..but that is fact.

3. Coach Kramer is an excellent recruiter, motivator, and a great guy. He is not tne brains behind either our offense or our defense. He has trusted these coaches to do that. He is not responsible for the schemes or the calls. He works with the kicking teams.

Coach Kramer has done an excellent job this season..working with the players and the staff. Hopefully, he is headed for BSC Coach of the Year. He deserves it.

Platinumcat · Post by **Platinumcat** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:11 pm

Hardhitter wrote:Something to consider here:

1. Take a look at where our most efficient players are from and look at who on the coaching staff recruits that area. Don Bailey is not a excellent recruiter. I believe he is a great coach and knows his stuff....but a topnotch recruiter he is not.

2. When a staff cuts a players...really they should place the blame on themselves for mis-evaluating that player. Rick Coppack was good enough to play here and was cut. Never even given a real chance. I support what the staff is doing now..but that is fact.
3. Coach Kramer is an excellent recruiter, motivator, and a great guy. He is not tne brains behind either our offense or our defense. He has trusted these coaches to do that. He is not responsible for the schemes or the calls. He works with the kicking teams.

Coach Kramer has done an excellent job this season..working with the players and the staff. Hopefully, he is headed for BSC Coach of the Year. He deserves it.

Hardhitter,
Perhaps you have some inside info on this. But, from the outside looking in this is how I perceive it:
1) Every player that is recruited to play college ball has a certain amount of risk to them. Simply put, there are very few high school athletes who are ready physically, mentally to play right away in college. The rest of them the coaches see potential in and recruit in hopes of seeing that potential mature. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.
2) To say that Coppack didn't have an opportunity is not true IMO. He had three years of learning the system just like Cory to develop and become the front runner as heir apparent. But he didn't; at least as much as Carpenter. The battle for backup has been going on for several years and he simply did not win that battle.

couloir41 · Post by **couloir41** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:10 pm

let me pile on a little....

no coach can see the future...no coach can tell how a particular player will develop...so to say a coach should feel responsible when a recruit does not work out the way the coach hoped...is a very misguided statement...

in closing i will also add that if a scholarship player does not meet the expectations of the coaching staff then his scholarship should be given to someone else...

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:41 pm

Hardhitter wrote:2. When a staff cuts a players...really they should place the blame on themselves for mis-evaluating that player. Rick Coppack was good enough to play here and was cut. Never even given a real chance. I support what the staff is doing now..but that is fact.

Coppack was not good enough to play at Montana State. He was given every chance that Cory was given, and he continually came up short. He looked terrible and threw multiple interceptions in every scrimmage he played in. But, he got a free (outstanding) education for three years, and I believe the MSU coaches helped hook him up with another school to finish up at. I don't see how you can say any of that is a bad thing. Real life sucks sometimes, but I'll bet he had some great experiences while he was in Bozeman that he wouldn't trade for the world.

We'll see about Kramer for COY. He has three more games to win before I'd consider him for that. If he does, it should be a shoo-in. I'm pretty impressed with what he has done already, but we still have a lot of unfinished business to erase the taste of September from our mouths.

Kramer and recruiting

Kramer and recruiting

Re: Kramer and recruiting

Re: Kramer and recruiting

Re: Kramer and recruiting