The Bobcat Nation

• 30 Players
• 27 High Schoolers
• 2 Transfers (both JUCO)
• 1 Prep School Transfer
• 11 Montanans

• 36 Players
• 17 High Schoolers
• 18 Transfers
• 1 Prep School Transfer
• 5 Montanans (4 HS and 1 Tfr)
• Transfers by Class: 8 Sr, 4 Jr, 6 So

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 10:40 am

With classes basically complete, I find the differences between MSU and UM to be fascinating. The different approaches these in-state rivals are taking couldn't be more different and adding to the intrigue is the reality that in the past two seasons, the results have been very similar: Griz went on a run to Frisco in 2023 and then had a disappointing playoff appearance in 2024; the Cats went on a run to Frisco in 2024 but had a disappointing playoff appearance in 2023.

Here's what the teams were replacing relative to their 2-Deep rosters at the end of the season:

Montana State: 17 players from the 2-Deep, including 15 starters

Montana: 28 players from the 2-Deep, including 19 starters

And here's how the teams replaced their losses:

Montana State:

• 30 Players
• 27 High Schoolers
• 2 Transfers (both JUCO)
• 1 Prep School Transfer
• 11 Montanans

Montana:

• 36 Players
• 17 High Schoolers
• 18 Transfers
• 1 Prep School Transfer
• 5 Montanans (4 HS and 1 Tfr)
• Transfers by Class: 8 Sr, 4 Jr, 6 So

The Cats are committing as much as anyone in the country to building up the program with home-grown personnel. The Griz are in something of a transfer cycle; when so many of your additions come in with 1 or 2 seasons of eligibility, it's hard to develop high schoolers behind them and you end up going back to the portal. What's more, it seems that the best predictor of whether or player will transfer OUT is if they transferred IN. UM seems to be trying to add transfers with more of a runway, but the plurality of their class are still seniors.

It will be fascinating to see the differences play out.

iaafan wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 11:16 am

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 10:40 am

With classes basically complete, I find the differences between MSU and UM to be fascinating. The different approaches these in-state rivals are taking couldn't be more different and adding to the intrigue is the reality that in the past two seasons, the results have been very similar: Griz went on a run to Frisco in 2023 and then had a disappointing playoff appearance in 2024; the Cats went on a run to Frisco in 2024 but had a disappointing playoff appearance in 2023.

Here's what the teams were replacing relative to their 2-Deep rosters at the end of the season:

Montana State: 17 players from the 2-Deep, including 15 starters

Montana: 28 players from the 2-Deep, including 19 starters

And here's how the teams replaced their losses:

Montana State:

• 30 Players
• 27 High Schoolers
• 2 Transfers (both JUCO)
• 1 Prep School Transfer
• 11 Montanans

Montana:

• 36 Players
• 17 High Schoolers
• 18 Transfers
• 1 Prep School Transfer
• 5 Montanans (4 HS and 1 Tfr)
• Transfers by Class: 8 Sr, 4 Jr, 6 So

The Cats are committing as much as anyone in the country to building up the program with home-grown personnel. The Griz are in something of a transfer cycle; when so many of your additions come in with 1 or 2 seasons of eligibility, it's hard to develop high schoolers behind them and you end up going back to the portal. What's more, it seems that the best predictor of whether or player will transfer OUT is if they transferred IN. UM seems to be trying to add transfers with more of a runway, but the plurality of their class are still seniors.

It will be fascinating to see the differences play out.

They're not in even in the same ... (was going to say area code) ... ballpark with us. I don't think this analysis will show anything. MSU's player development is so much better than UM's that it has created a huge rift between the two. MSU, NDSU and SDSU are head and shoulders above UM. USD and UCD are both ahead of UM. UM is in a group with UND, Weber, EWU, UIW, SAC.

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 11:41 am

iaafan wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 11:16 am

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 10:40 am

With classes basically complete, I find the differences between MSU and UM to be fascinating. The different approaches these in-state rivals are taking couldn't be more different and adding to the intrigue is the reality that in the past two seasons, the results have been very similar: Griz went on a run to Frisco in 2023 and then had a disappointing playoff appearance in 2024; the Cats went on a run to Frisco in 2024 but had a disappointing playoff appearance in 2023.

Here's what the teams were replacing relative to their 2-Deep rosters at the end of the season:

Montana State: 17 players from the 2-Deep, including 15 starters

Montana: 28 players from the 2-Deep, including 19 starters

And here's how the teams replaced their losses:

Montana State:

• 30 Players
• 27 High Schoolers
• 2 Transfers (both JUCO)
• 1 Prep School Transfer
• 11 Montanans

Montana:

• 36 Players
• 17 High Schoolers
• 18 Transfers
• 1 Prep School Transfer
• 5 Montanans (4 HS and 1 Tfr)
• Transfers by Class: 8 Sr, 4 Jr, 6 So

The Cats are committing as much as anyone in the country to building up the program with home-grown personnel. The Griz are in something of a transfer cycle; when so many of your additions come in with 1 or 2 seasons of eligibility, it's hard to develop high schoolers behind them and you end up going back to the portal. What's more, it seems that the best predictor of whether or player will transfer OUT is if they transferred IN. UM seems to be trying to add transfers with more of a runway, but the plurality of their class are still seniors.

It will be fascinating to see the differences play out.

They're not in even in the same ... (was going to say area code) ... ballpark with us. I don't think this analysis will show anything. MSU's player development is so much better than UM's that it has created a huge rift between the two. MSU, NDSU and SDSU are head and shoulders above UM. USD and UCD are both ahead of UM. UM is in a group with UND, Weber, EWU, UIW, SAC.

I agree that the MSU program is better and I prefer their approach, but I don’t think you can back up the assertion that they’re not in the same ballpark given recent results.

Over the last two seasons, the Griz have gone to the championship and lost in the 2nd round. Over that same span, the Cats have lost in the 2nd round and gone to the championship. Furthermore, we are now at five straight rivalry games in which the home team won handily.

Now in a longer time frame, MSU has had a lot more success. But I think what’s most recent is most relevant. It feels good to say they are miles beneath us, but the results don’t beat that out.

iaafan wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 11:56 am

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 11:41 am

iaafan wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 11:16 am

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 10:40 am

With classes basically complete, I find the differences between MSU and UM to be fascinating. The different approaches these in-state rivals are taking couldn't be more different and adding to the intrigue is the reality that in the past two seasons, the results have been very similar: Griz went on a run to Frisco in 2023 and then had a disappointing playoff appearance in 2024; the Cats went on a run to Frisco in 2024 but had a disappointing playoff appearance in 2023.

Here's what the teams were replacing relative to their 2-Deep rosters at the end of the season:

Montana State: 17 players from the 2-Deep, including 15 starters

Montana: 28 players from the 2-Deep, including 19 starters

And here's how the teams replaced their losses:

Montana State:

• 30 Players
• 27 High Schoolers
• 2 Transfers (both JUCO)
• 1 Prep School Transfer
• 11 Montanans

Montana:

• 36 Players
• 17 High Schoolers
• 18 Transfers
• 1 Prep School Transfer
• 5 Montanans (4 HS and 1 Tfr)
• Transfers by Class: 8 Sr, 4 Jr, 6 So

The Cats are committing as much as anyone in the country to building up the program with home-grown personnel. The Griz are in something of a transfer cycle; when so many of your additions come in with 1 or 2 seasons of eligibility, it's hard to develop high schoolers behind them and you end up going back to the portal. What's more, it seems that the best predictor of whether or player will transfer OUT is if they transferred IN. UM seems to be trying to add transfers with more of a runway, but the plurality of their class are still seniors.

It will be fascinating to see the differences play out.

They're not in even in the same ... (was going to say area code) ... ballpark with us. I don't think this analysis will show anything. MSU's player development is so much better than UM's that it has created a huge rift between the two. MSU, NDSU and SDSU are head and shoulders above UM. USD and UCD are both ahead of UM. UM is in a group with UND, Weber, EWU, UIW, SAC.

I agree that the MSU program is better and I prefer their approach, but I don’t think you can back up the assertion that they’re not in the same ballpark given recent results.

Over the last two seasons, the Griz have gone to the championship and lost in the 2nd round. Over that same span, the Cats have lost in the 2nd round and gone to the championship. Furthermore, we are now at five straight rivalry games in which the home team won handily.

Now in a longer time frame, MSU has had a lot more success. But I think what’s most recent is most relevant. It feels good to say they are miles beneath us, but the results don’t beat that out.

I think that's a shallow dive. If I was looking to make a case for UM to on par with MSU, that's what I'd do. However, MSU has been a dominating team over the last two years. 2023 was more of a fluke than anything else for both teams. The details of that have been discussed on here and they're pretty solid. The 2021 game was also a weird game that featured broken plays and big ST mistakes and the follow up to it kind of proved that.

iaafan wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 11:56 am

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 11:41 am

iaafan wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 11:16 am

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 10:40 am

With classes basically complete, I find the differences between MSU and UM to be fascinating. The different approaches these in-state rivals are taking couldn't be more different and adding to the intrigue is the reality that in the past two seasons, the results have been very similar: Griz went on a run to Frisco in 2023 and then had a disappointing playoff appearance in 2024; the Cats went on a run to Frisco in 2024 but had a disappointing playoff appearance in 2023.

Here's what the teams were replacing relative to their 2-Deep rosters at the end of the season:

Montana State: 17 players from the 2-Deep, including 15 starters

Montana: 28 players from the 2-Deep, including 19 starters

And here's how the teams replaced their losses:

Montana State:

• 30 Players
• 27 High Schoolers
• 2 Transfers (both JUCO)
• 1 Prep School Transfer
• 11 Montanans

Montana:

• 36 Players
• 17 High Schoolers
• 18 Transfers
• 1 Prep School Transfer
• 5 Montanans (4 HS and 1 Tfr)
• Transfers by Class: 8 Sr, 4 Jr, 6 So

The Cats are committing as much as anyone in the country to building up the program with home-grown personnel. The Griz are in something of a transfer cycle; when so many of your additions come in with 1 or 2 seasons of eligibility, it's hard to develop high schoolers behind them and you end up going back to the portal. What's more, it seems that the best predictor of whether or player will transfer OUT is if they transferred IN. UM seems to be trying to add transfers with more of a runway, but the plurality of their class are still seniors.

It will be fascinating to see the differences play out.

They're not in even in the same ... (was going to say area code) ... ballpark with us. I don't think this analysis will show anything. MSU's player development is so much better than UM's that it has created a huge rift between the two. MSU, NDSU and SDSU are head and shoulders above UM. USD and UCD are both ahead of UM. UM is in a group with UND, Weber, EWU, UIW, SAC.

I agree that the MSU program is better and I prefer their approach, but I don’t think you can back up the assertion that they’re not in the same ballpark given recent results.

Over the last two seasons, the Griz have gone to the championship and lost in the 2nd round. Over that same span, the Cats have lost in the 2nd round and gone to the championship. Furthermore, we are now at five straight rivalry games in which the home team won handily.

Now in a longer time frame, MSU has had a lot more success. But I think what’s most recent is most relevant. It feels good to say they are miles beneath us, but the results don’t beat that out.

I think that's a shallow dive. If I was looking to make a case for UM to on par with MSU, that's what I'd do. However, MSU has been a dominating team over the last two years. 2023 was more of a fluke than anything else for both teams. The details of that have been discussed on here and they're pretty solid. The 2021 game was also a weird game that featured broken plays and big ST mistakes and the follow up to it kind of proved that.

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 1:37 pm

iaafan wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 11:56 am

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 11:41 am

iaafan wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 11:16 am

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 10:40 am

With classes basically complete, I find the differences between MSU and UM to be fascinating. The different approaches these in-state rivals are taking couldn't be more different and adding to the intrigue is the reality that in the past two seasons, the results have been very similar: Griz went on a run to Frisco in 2023 and then had a disappointing playoff appearance in 2024; the Cats went on a run to Frisco in 2024 but had a disappointing playoff appearance in 2023.

Here's what the teams were replacing relative to their 2-Deep rosters at the end of the season:

Montana State: 17 players from the 2-Deep, including 15 starters

Montana: 28 players from the 2-Deep, including 19 starters

And here's how the teams replaced their losses:

Montana State:

• 30 Players
• 27 High Schoolers
• 2 Transfers (both JUCO)
• 1 Prep School Transfer
• 11 Montanans

Montana:

• 36 Players
• 17 High Schoolers
• 18 Transfers
• 1 Prep School Transfer
• 5 Montanans (4 HS and 1 Tfr)
• Transfers by Class: 8 Sr, 4 Jr, 6 So

The Cats are committing as much as anyone in the country to building up the program with home-grown personnel. The Griz are in something of a transfer cycle; when so many of your additions come in with 1 or 2 seasons of eligibility, it's hard to develop high schoolers behind them and you end up going back to the portal. What's more, it seems that the best predictor of whether or player will transfer OUT is if they transferred IN. UM seems to be trying to add transfers with more of a runway, but the plurality of their class are still seniors.

It will be fascinating to see the differences play out.

They're not in even in the same ... (was going to say area code) ... ballpark with us. I don't think this analysis will show anything. MSU's player development is so much better than UM's that it has created a huge rift between the two. MSU, NDSU and SDSU are head and shoulders above UM. USD and UCD are both ahead of UM. UM is in a group with UND, Weber, EWU, UIW, SAC.

I agree that the MSU program is better and I prefer their approach, but I don’t think you can back up the assertion that they’re not in the same ballpark given recent results.

Over the last two seasons, the Griz have gone to the championship and lost in the 2nd round. Over that same span, the Cats have lost in the 2nd round and gone to the championship. Furthermore, we are now at five straight rivalry games in which the home team won handily.

Now in a longer time frame, MSU has had a lot more success. But I think what’s most recent is most relevant. It feels good to say they are miles beneath us, but the results don’t beat that out.

I think that's a shallow dive. If I was looking to make a case for UM to on par with MSU, that's what I'd do. However, MSU has been a dominating team over the last two years. 2023 was more of a fluke than anything else for both teams. The details of that have been discussed on here and they're pretty solid. The 2021 game was also a weird game that featured broken plays and big ST mistakes and the follow up to it kind of proved that.

How far the respective teams made it may or may not be shallow, but regardless it’s what actually matters.

If you have better analysis, the floor is yours.

GoldstoneCat wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 1:43 pm

Their 23 team was similar to our 21-22 team. Good team that got a favorable draw and made a great run. Excellent defenses and good enough on offense. Not to mention Bergen. It just feels like we're on a different trajectory than them. Their run was the end of the Covid roster where they had a million older kids who had been in the program forever. They followed it up with a flop and not only the flop but no depth in the program. Next year will tell the tale for us but I feel like our 21 run to Frisco leveled up the program, and their 23 run did not.

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 2:23 pm

GoldstoneCat wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 1:43 pm

Their 23 team was similar to our 21-22 team. Good team that got a favorable draw and made a great run. Excellent defenses and good enough on offense. Not to mention Bergen. It just feels like we're on a different trajectory than them. Their run was the end of the Covid roster where they had a million older kids who had been in the program forever. They followed it up with a flop and not only the flop but no depth in the program. Next year will tell the tale for us but I feel like our 21 run to Frisco leveled up the program, and their 23 run did not.

I definitely agree that it feels like the teams are on different trajectories. If they're heading to the same place, they are certainly taking drastically different paths to get there. I wouldn't trade places with them in terms of approach and I agree with the sentiments that have been shared regarding their reliance on the portal being really high risk/high variance.

All that said, it's wish-casting to talk like we're somehow miles ahead of them when recent success has been so comparable. It's no different than when Griz fans act like something must be wrong at MSU because we aren't raking in transfers-- they're manifesting something that they want to be true.

GoldstoneCat wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 2:26 pm

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 2:23 pm

GoldstoneCat wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 1:43 pm

Their 23 team was similar to our 21-22 team. Good team that got a favorable draw and made a great run. Excellent defenses and good enough on offense. Not to mention Bergen. It just feels like we're on a different trajectory than them. Their run was the end of the Covid roster where they had a million older kids who had been in the program forever. They followed it up with a flop and not only the flop but no depth in the program. Next year will tell the tale for us but I feel like our 21 run to Frisco leveled up the program, and their 23 run did not.

I definitely agree that it feels like the teams are on different trajectories. If they're heading to the same place, they are certainly taking drastically different paths to get there. I wouldn't trade places with them in terms of approach and I agree with the sentiments that have been shared regarding their reliance on the portal being really high risk/high variance.

All that said, it's wish-casting to talk like we're somehow miles ahead of them when recent success has been so comparable. It's no different than when Griz fans act like something must be wrong at MSU because we aren't raking in transfers-- they're manifesting something that they want to be true.

Agreed. Maybe this is an imperfect way to say it but, here we are reading it anyway: the 2 programs are very similar. In infrastructure, in support, in recent success. The way the 2 programs are being run and managed feels like we have a rather large edge developing. Time will surely tell.

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 2:23 pm

GoldstoneCat wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 1:43 pm

Their 23 team was similar to our 21-22 team. Good team that got a favorable draw and made a great run. Excellent defenses and good enough on offense. Not to mention Bergen. It just feels like we're on a different trajectory than them. Their run was the end of the Covid roster where they had a million older kids who had been in the program forever. They followed it up with a flop and not only the flop but no depth in the program. Next year will tell the tale for us but I feel like our 21 run to Frisco leveled up the program, and their 23 run did not.

I definitely agree that it feels like the teams are on different trajectories. If they're heading to the same place, they are certainly taking drastically different paths to get there. I wouldn't trade places with them in terms of approach and I agree with the sentiments that have been shared regarding their reliance on the portal being really high risk/high variance.

All that said, it's wish-casting to talk like we're somehow miles ahead of them when recent success has been so comparable. It's no different than when Griz fans act like something must be wrong at MSU because we aren't raking in transfers-- they're manifesting something that they want to be true.

coloradocat wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 2:54 pm

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 2:23 pm

GoldstoneCat wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 1:43 pm

Their 23 team was similar to our 21-22 team. Good team that got a favorable draw and made a great run. Excellent defenses and good enough on offense. Not to mention Bergen. It just feels like we're on a different trajectory than them. Their run was the end of the Covid roster where they had a million older kids who had been in the program forever. They followed it up with a flop and not only the flop but no depth in the program. Next year will tell the tale for us but I feel like our 21 run to Frisco leveled up the program, and their 23 run did not.

I definitely agree that it feels like the teams are on different trajectories. If they're heading to the same place, they are certainly taking drastically different paths to get there. I wouldn't trade places with them in terms of approach and I agree with the sentiments that have been shared regarding their reliance on the portal being really high risk/high variance.

All that said, it's wish-casting to talk like we're somehow miles ahead of them when recent success has been so comparable. It's no different than when Griz fans act like something must be wrong at MSU because we aren't raking in transfers-- they're manifesting something that they want to be true.

They probably think/hope we're going to struggle because we're replacing seniors with freshmen while they are replacing seniors with seniors. Their lack of quality high school recruiting has put them in win now mode which is a crap shoot when you have to rely on transfers. What they don't realize is that it's not that we can't get transfers to come here (imagine thinking a team that has made it to Frisco twice in four years isn't a destination for transfers) but that we prefer to build from the bottom up, not the top down. We aren't loading up on transfers because we don't have to.

Mtcatfan wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 3:13 pm

Not surprising MSU is winning the high school recruiting battle, especially in state. As a freshmen would you rather go to MSU when they will develop you and you can look forward to moving up the depth chart and eventually seeing the field or UM where you finally move up the depth chart and are on track to play and they bring in a transfer and your opportunity to play is nixed?