Transferring to FBS vs staying FCS

[Monymony]

With the draft bowl games going on it has really made me wonder if going to the FBS actually raises a players draft stock. So easy to look at Marcus Wehr, Zabel, Miller, and Chism and see how much media they are attracting and the opportunity to play in these games, where as if they are in the FBS most probably get pushed aside. Also all of the XDSU guys that are having legit success in the NFL (Kraft, Watson, etc.) make me wonder if those guys would be in the same position if they had moved up. In my opinion staying and dominating at the FCS level can attract a lot more eyes to you than being a solid FBS guy. Obviously NIL changes this a bit but if you can wait a couple of years the money could be a lot bigger (Cam Miller).

[MSU01]

As a general rule, I'm of the opinion that in terms of NFL prospects a player's talent matters a lot more than the school they play for. The NFL will find you if you're good enough whether you play at Montana Tech or Montana State or Ohio State. We have your examples of players who stayed FCS and have had successful NFL careers, but there are also plenty of examples of players who transferred and have also done very well for themselves. Jared Verse, transferred from Albany to Florida State and was a 1st round pick this past year. It's very likely that the top three draft picks in this year's NFL Draft will be players who started at the FCS level and transferred to FBS. And did Cam Skattebo's draft stock get hurt by transferring from Sac State to Arizona State? Surely not.

[iaafan]

As a general rule, I'm of the opinion that in terms of NFL prospects a player's talent matters a lot more than the school they play for. The NFL will find you if you're good enough whether you play at Montana Tech or Montana State or Ohio State. We have your examples of players who stayed FCS and have had successful NFL careers, but there are also plenty of examples of players who transferred and have also done very well for themselves. Jared Verse, transferred from Albany to Florida State and was a 1st round pick this past year. It's very likely that the top three draft picks in this year's NFL Draft will be players who started at the FCS level and transferred to FBS. And did Cam Skattebo's draft stock get hurt by transferring from Sac State to Arizona State? Surely not.

And this has been going on for decades. The nfl is littered with players from small schools going back at least to Jan Stenerud. Walter Payton played for Jackson State, I think. The examples are overwhelming if you take the time to look at any NFL roster from the 60s or 70s. But suddenly players need to play at New Mexico and San Jose St to get noticed? ROFL.

I just looked at the Dallas 1970 roster and it has 11 sub-what are now FBS players out of 45 and two are from the BSC. Ron East was on that team and he played here.

Anyway, if they could find players in 1970 I’m sure they could do it now.

[gtapp]

Bill Kolar was a first round pick! It does not matter!

[BelligerentBobcat]

Bill Kolar was a first round pick! It does not matter!

It absolutely matters.

[iaafan]

Bill Kolar was a first round pick! It does not matter!

It absolutely matters.

What matters? Spelling?

The NFL will find you. It doesn’t matter where you play college ball. It isn’t rocket science. There aren’t that many good players out there that you’re going to get missed. More good players are missed from high school to college than from college to the pros. In fact, I doubt that there have been any players that haven’t at least been looked at by pro scouts. It’s not a needle in the haystack thing.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Bill Kolar was a first round pick! It does not matter!

It absolutely matters.

What matters? Spelling?

The NFL will find you. It doesn’t matter where you play college ball. It isn’t rocket science. There aren’t that many good players out there that you’re going to get missed. More good players are missed from high school to college than from college to the pros. In fact, I doubt that there have been any players that haven’t at least been looked at by pro scouts. It’s not a needle in the haystack thing.

Of course the NFL will find talent. And all things being equal, they’re going to go with the talent that’s proven themself against better competition.

It’s not about if the NFL will find you or not, it’s about where you get drafted. 3rd round or 6th round. Pretty large difference in earnings.

[onceacat]

Bill Kolar was a first round pick! It does not matter!

It absolutely matters.

What matters? Spelling?

The NFL will find you. It doesn’t matter where you play college ball. It isn’t rocket science. There aren’t that many good players out there that you’re going to get missed. More good players are missed from high school to college than from college to the pros. In fact, I doubt that there have been any players that haven’t at least been looked at by pro scouts. It’s not a needle in the haystack thing.

Of course the NFL will find talent. And all things being equal, they’re going to go with the talent that’s proven themself against better competition.

It’s not about if the NFL will find you or not, it’s about where you get drafted. 3rd round or 6th round. Pretty large difference in earnings.

This. Obviously there are exceptions, but I think it's a fair rule of thumb to say that playing at a G5 school is worth roughly one round and playing FCS is worth a 2nd round.

No possible way that Cam Ward is a #1 pick at UIW. (MAYBE at NDSU). Hes a 2nd or 3rd rounder out of UIW.

And the knock on him would be "Hes never proven himself against a high level of competition".

[onceacat]

With the draft bowl games going on it has really made me wonder if going to the FBS actually raises a players draft stock. So easy to look at Marcus Wehr, Zabel, Miller, and Chism and see how much media they are attracting and the opportunity to play in these games, where as if they are in the FBS most probably get pushed aside. Also all of the XDSU guys that are having legit success in the NFL (Kraft, Watson, etc.) make me wonder if those guys would be in the same position if they had moved up. In my opinion staying and dominating at the FCS level can attract a lot more eyes to you than being a solid FBS guy. Obviously NIL changes this a bit but if you can wait a couple of years the money could be a lot bigger (Cam Miller).

Theres also a pretty significant advantage to being 'coached up.' For some guys like Cooper Kupp or Troy Andersen, that may mean sticking with the team that drafted you and put you in a position to have a lot of success.

For others (Cam Ward, maybe Cam Skattebo) it's pretty likely that the coaching they received at a higher level has improved their draft stock. Also, at FBS they are going to get better strength & nutrition coaches & lots of other advantages.

I agree that the NFL is pretty effective at finding talent, but theres a lot more than talent that goes into producing a Pro-ready top tier draft pick.

[PapaG]

Players and their families are going to choose what they think is best for them in their lives.

Some fans will be very upset at them and say they’re making a mistake.

Other fans will says it’s up to the players, it’s their life, and you only get one of them. If it’s a mistake, we’ve all made them in our lives and most didn’t know it at the time.

The only consistent thing is these conversations about this topic will exist each year as long as the portal exists, with only the names of the players changing.

[catsrback76]

Danny Woodhead…

[catatac]

I've always felt like it doesn't raise your draft stock at all if you play FBS vs FCS, ESPECIALLY if it's mid level FBS versus upper level FCS. So if an NFL hopeful from MSU transfers to New Mexico, or UCLA or wherever because they think it will help their NFL chances, that's a bad decision. If they're going for more NIL money, I don't blame them for that and that is probably why most of them do it.

[onceacat]

Danny Woodhead…

Undrafted FA. Made $375k that first year with the Patriots (league minimum is $800k now, adjusted for inflation I guess) vs. $4-$8m/year for a mid round draft pick.

I think Woodhead 100% proves the point: the value is in being a higher draft pick.

[onceacat]

I've always felt like it doesn't raise your draft stock at all if you play FBS vs FCS, ESPECIALLY if it's mid level FBS versus upper level FCS. So if an NFL hopeful from MSU transfers to New Mexico, or UCLA or wherever because they think it will help their NFL chances, that's a bad decision. If they're going for more NIL money, I don't blame them for that and that is probably why most of them do it.

G5, for sure. But UCLA? That means you are going to have tape going against elite defenses like USC & Utah (prior to the Pac folding) or Ohio & Michigan (now that UCLA is playing in the Big 10).

Plus (and lots of people forget this) you have a degree from UCLA if you don't get drafted with is a couple orders of magnitude different than a diploma from MSU or UNM.

PLUS, like you said, NIL money.

The difference between top FCS & most of the G5 is pretty minimal, maybe $20k in NIL difference and everything else is either a push or better at FCS, but as soon as you hit P4 schools, transferring is really a no brainer.

[MSU01]

You guys are trying to force this into an impossible generalization when the reality is that every player is going to have different circumstances and what works for one may hurt another. The sooner we accept the transfer portal the better off we'll all be. Nobody is saying you have to like it or are required to cheer for the players who leave MSU.

[onceacat]

You guys are trying to force this into an impossible generalization when the reality is that every player is going to have different circumstances and what works for one may hurt another. The sooner we accept the transfer portal the better off we'll all be. Nobody is saying you have to like it or are required to cheer for the players who leave MSU.

We can accept the reality & also recognize the ways in which our organizations (QB Club, NIL collective, etc) can leverage that reality to keep great players in Bozeman.

This is ALL about understanding the reality of different players and different circumstances.

What a weird post.

[MSU01]

You guys are trying to force this into an impossible generalization when the reality is that every player is going to have different circumstances and what works for one may hurt another. The sooner we accept the transfer portal the better off we'll all be. Nobody is saying you have to like it or are required to cheer for the players who leave MSU.

We can accept the reality & also recognize the ways in which our organizations (QB Club, NIL collective, etc) can leverage that reality to keep great players in Bozeman.

This is ALL about understanding the reality of different players and different circumstances.

What a weird post.

I must not have worded my post well because what you said is pretty much exactly the point I was trying to make. Instead of fighting against the portal and trying to make arguments about how players made poor decisions or will regret leaving or hurt their NFL chances by leaving, it's better to accept that increased transfer movement is part of the game now and do what we can to keep the program strong within that reality. Every player's situation will be different and the best decision for one player isn't going to be the best decision for another.

[kwcat]

I've always felt like it doesn't raise your draft stock at all if you play FBS vs FCS, ESPECIALLY if it's mid level FBS versus upper level FCS. So if an NFL hopeful from MSU transfers to New Mexico, or UCLA or wherever because they think it will help their NFL chances, that's a bad decision. If they're going for more NIL money, I don't blame them for that and that is probably why most of them do it.

G5, for sure. But UCLA? That means you are going to have tape going against elite defenses like USC & Utah (prior to the Pac folding) or Ohio & Michigan (now that UCLA is playing in the Big 10).

Plus (and lots of people forget this) you have a degree from UCLA if you don't get drafted with is a couple orders of magnitude different than a diploma from MSU or UNM.

PLUS, like you said, NIL money.

The difference between top FCS & most of the G5 is pretty minimal, maybe $20k in NIL difference and everything else is either a push or better at FCS, but as soon as you hit P4 schools, transferring is really a no brainer.

I have a question about a diploma from UCLA versus Montana State University. What is the difference? And how does that transfer into income?
I don’t have any real world comparisons to reference

[onceacat]

I've always felt like it doesn't raise your draft stock at all if you play FBS vs FCS, ESPECIALLY if it's mid level FBS versus upper level FCS. So if an NFL hopeful from MSU transfers to New Mexico, or UCLA or wherever because they think it will help their NFL chances, that's a bad decision. If they're going for more NIL money, I don't blame them for that and that is probably why most of them do it.

G5, for sure. But UCLA? That means you are going to have tape going against elite defenses like USC & Utah (prior to the Pac folding) or Ohio & Michigan (now that UCLA is playing in the Big 10).

Plus (and lots of people forget this) you have a degree from UCLA if you don't get drafted with is a couple orders of magnitude different than a diploma from MSU or UNM.

PLUS, like you said, NIL money.

The difference between top FCS & most of the G5 is pretty minimal, maybe $20k in NIL difference and everything else is either a push or better at FCS, but as soon as you hit P4 schools, transferring is really a no brainer.

I have a question about a diploma from UCLA versus Montana State University. What is the difference? And how does that transfer into income?
I don’t have any real world comparisons to reference

UCLA is a public school equivalent of an Ivy League degree. Same with a handful of others (Texas, UNC, Michigan). I try not to put too much stock in things like "Best Schools" lists, but it's not remotely close to MSU.

UCLA has a <10% acceptance rate, so entrance gets one into an exclusive club. Not sure how it pays off, but your question is a little bit like asking "Whats the value of an Ivy League degree?"

UCLA, Berkely, UM, etc...just opens more doors in a way that no G5 and no FCS (outside the Ivies) can do.

I don't mean that as a knock on MSU, it's just....different. Ask any academically ambitions HS senior.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

I've always felt like it doesn't raise your draft stock at all if you play FBS vs FCS, ESPECIALLY if it's mid level FBS versus upper level FCS. So if an NFL hopeful from MSU transfers to New Mexico, or UCLA or wherever because they think it will help their NFL chances, that's a bad decision. If they're going for more NIL money, I don't blame them for that and that is probably why most of them do it.

G5, for sure. But UCLA? That means you are going to have tape going against elite defenses like USC & Utah (prior to the Pac folding) or Ohio & Michigan (now that UCLA is playing in the Big 10).

Plus (and lots of people forget this) you have a degree from UCLA if you don't get drafted with is a couple orders of magnitude different than a diploma from MSU or UNM.

PLUS, like you said, NIL money.

The difference between top FCS & most of the G5 is pretty minimal, maybe $20k in NIL difference and everything else is either a push or better at FCS, but as soon as you hit P4 schools, transferring is really a no brainer.

I have a question about a diploma from UCLA versus Montana State University. What is the difference? And how does that transfer into income?
I don’t have any real world comparisons to reference

Depending on what your degree is in its a huge difference. I went to a top 15 school in the country. They sold us on coming there by saying that graduates from my school earned about 10% more on average when entering the workforce. I can say for a fact, in my case it was true. Every employer I interviewed with found extra money to entice me to choose them. When I was in school I applied for a summer internship, it was for business majors...I wasn't a business major...I was the only person in the whole program, about 100 people, that interviewed with the ceo, he then created a spot for me in their health dept because of where I went to school.

On a grand scale it doesn't matter where you go as your end success is determined by your work ethic and a little luck. But trust me a degree from a top academic institution opens doors faster than not having one. Again, anyone can do well and most do. There's a lot of people in my field that are doing way better than me and their degree is from "lower tier" schools, so again it doesn't really matter but at the same time.... it does matter.