Moving up

[coloradocat]

@Colter_Nuanez had two segments on his show yesterday about moving up to a new conference (likely MWC).

All of his reasons why sound good but there are some problems with them.

1) Unless he knows something none of the rest of us do, we haven't been turning down invitations. The reason we haven't been getting invites is that we bring nothing to the table. We're almost less desirable than NDSU in that MSU/Missoula are a 2 for 1 deal. Any conference would have to take both schools. Why take on two schools with a TV footprint of 1 million people combined?

2) The transplants aren't funding athletics for us at the FCS level but I've never seen any data to back up the claim that they would all the sudden start donating if we moved up and were regularly playing Wyoming and Utah State. Are there any studies that show teams that moved up had a sudden influx of funding from new donors? How many of you that live outside Montana contribute to your local college team?

3) How many more out of state students are going to move to Bozeman/Missoula if they already can't afford to live there. Higher enrolment won't help the athletic department anyway if it's self funded. Any increase in student athletic fees would be a drop in the bucket.

4) This should probably be #1 but people like watching winners. Most of us on BN can remember the days when we weren't in the top tier of the BSC. Losing leads to fewer ticket sales and fewer donations. And that's just from the long-time fans. Why would transplants donate money to an average G5 team?

I'm not totally against the idea of moving up to the Mountain West but the money necessary to be competitive isn't going to just start falling from the sky because we start wearing a different patch on our jerseys.

[mslacatfan]

My vote (for what it’s worth)….

-Football team stay in the FCS (for now anyway)…

-basketball team move up to a bigger conference, like the mountain west. The recent debacle with sprinkle and the team being completely gutted was pretty eye opening to me. No way we can keep this program competing at a higher level (like we had the last couple years) by staying in the big sky.

Not sure if that is even possible. But that’s what I would want.

[coloradocat]

My vote (for what it’s worth)….

-Football team stay in the FCS (for now anyway)…

-basketball team move up to a bigger conference, like the mountain west. The recent debacle with sprinkle and the team being completely gutted was pretty eye opening to me. No way we can keep this program competing at a higher level (like we had the last couple years) by staying in the big sky.

Not sure if that is even possible. But that’s what I would want.

I think it would have to be all or nothing, plus both schools moving together. If it was basketball only, or more likely everything but football, I'm not sure we'd get the money required to afford paying the basketball coaches the MWC rate.

[Hawks86]

The only thing that matters is that there are 2 FBS conferences out west and neither one is calling.

[Montanabob]

My vote (for what it’s worth)….

-Football team stay in the FCS (for now anyway)…

-basketball team move up to a bigger conference, like the mountain west. The recent debacle with sprinkle and the team being completely gutted was pretty eye opening to me. No way we can keep this program competing at a higher level (like we had the last couple years) by staying in the big sky.

Not sure if that is even possible. But that’s what I would want.

I think it would have to be all or nothing, plus both schools moving together. If it was basketball only, or more likely everything but football, I'm not sure we'd get the money required to afford paying the basketball coaches the MWC rate.

So what is your argument when we join the MWC for basketball only and PAC 8 / BIG 20 raid our coaches and players?

[AFCAT]

I say both schools should drop down to Div 2.

[mslacatfan]

My vote (for what it’s worth)….

-Football team stay in the FCS (for now anyway)…

-basketball team move up to a bigger conference, like the mountain west. The recent debacle with sprinkle and the team being completely gutted was pretty eye opening to me. No way we can keep this program competing at a higher level (like we had the last couple years) by staying in the big sky.

Not sure if that is even possible. But that’s what I would want.

I think it would have to be all or nothing, plus both schools moving together. If it was basketball only, or more likely everything but football, I'm not sure we'd get the money required to afford paying the basketball coaches the MWC rate.

So what is your argument when we join the MWC for basketball only and PAC 8 / BIG 20 raid our coaches and players?

I dunno. I certainly do not have all the answers…

All I know is that I’m really pissed off about what just happened to our bball program. For the most part it’s all because we can’t/couldn’t pay our coaches, which might be solved if we move up.

[rivercat]

If the opportunity availed itself, especially with any kind of reshuffling of the FBS, I would like to see MSU play regional teams at a higher level.

This coming years home schedule is hard to get excited about.

Utah Tech
Stetson
Portland St
Cal Poly
NAU
EWU

These games should not be close and I expect at least half to be blowouts by halftime.

[Montanabob]

I say both schools should drop down to Div 2.

So we can compete with U of Idaho, UNCo, and Portland state on a even footing?

[coloradocat]

I say both schools should drop down to Div 2.

Real football is played by guys that pay their own way or get "academic" scholarships!

[coloradocat]

If the opportunity availed itself, especially with any kind of reshuffling of the FBS, I would like to see MSU play regional teams at a higher level.

This coming years home schedule is hard to get excited about.

Utah Tech
Stetson
Portland St
Cal Poly
NAU
EWU

These games should not be close and I expect at least half to be blowouts by halftime.

Technically a full D1 schedule. Technically.

I wonder what's holding us back from playing a MWC team every year. Us or them? If we could even play one of them every other year it would help boost our profile in the league and among their fans.

[BelligerentBobcat]

What larger conference would want us?

We add next to no TV viewership. We add next to no recruiting area. We don’t have a large endowment.

I just fail to see why a conference would be enthused at the idea of adding both Montana schools. There just isn’t a lot of benefit to it.

[coloradocat]

What larger conference would want us?

We add next to no TV viewership. We add next to no recruiting area. We don’t have a large endowment.

I just fail to see why a conference would be enthused at the idea of adding both Montana schools. There just isn’t a lot of benefit to it.

No, no, no. You're supposed to skip that first step where a larger conference invites us.

[KalCat76]

Looking at Head Coaches salaries before incentives in the MWC in 2022..average was close to 1.1million. Top three were Colorado State at $1.6, Wyoming at $1.6, UNLV at $1.55…bottom three were Nevada at $950,000, NM at $750,000,Hawaii at the bottom at $500,000…add on all the increase in salaries of assistants and this blows any chance of moving up. I would like to see tougher competition come into Bobcat stadium. I am not excited about driving 600 miles to watch Utah Tech or Stetson.

[Montanabob]

Looking at Head Coaches salaries before incentives in the MWC in 2022..average was close to 1.1million. Top three were Colorado State at $1.6, Wyoming at $1.6, UNLV at $1.55…bottom three were Nevada at $950,000, NM at $750,000,Hawaii at the bottom at $500,000…add on all the increase in salaries of assistants and this blows any chance of moving up. I would like to see tougher competition come into Bobcat stadium. I am not excited about driving 600 miles to watch Utah Tech or Stetson.

All those warm weather MWC schools would probably pay us to not have a game in Bozeman in December

[tetoncat]

What larger conference would want us?

We add next to no TV viewership. We add next to no recruiting area. We don’t have a large endowment.

I just fail to see why a conference would be enthused at the idea of adding both Montana schools. There just isn’t a lot of benefit to it.

I see endowments listed on a lot of comparisons. How does that affect athletics and why another conference would take a school or not.

[CelticCat]

Firstly, and most obvious, MSU and UM would need an invite, so that goes without saying. Secondly, if MSU and UM do get an invite, it likely means somebody left, maybe SDSU and Boise, which drastically changes the value of the conference.

But let's assuming in a perfect world we get invited right into the MWC. Let's set the bar budget wise to Wyoming, which depending where you look had expenses of $40-$47 million in 2022. MSU was $24-$26.

Let's look at the differences in where the money comes from, not where it is spent, to see where/if MSU can make up the ground. Also decided to throw in Utah State.

Total Revenues :
Wyoming $50.26m
MSU $26.12
Utah State $43.15m

Institutional/government support:
Wyoming $18.72m (37%)
MSU $9.85m (37%)
Utah State $19.83m (46%)

NCAA media rights and conf distributions:
Wyoming $7.97m (14%)
MSU $3.11m (12%)
Utah State $6.97m (16%)

Ticket Sales
Wyoming $4.08m (8%)
MSU $4.44m (17%)
Utah State $2.72m (6%)

Student Fees
Wyoming $1.95m (4%)
MSU $2.13m (8%)
Utah State $4.51m (10%)

Donors
Wyoming $10.68m (21%)
MSU $5.02m (19%)
Utah State $6.48m (15%)

Corporate sponsorships, advertising, licensing
Wyoming $2.39m (5%)
MSU $.16m (1%)
Utah State $.45m (1%)

Other
Wyoming $3.99m (8%)
MSU $1.1m (4%)
Utah State $1.71m (15%)

I found these pretty interesting. MSU isn't too far off in donor support, about in line with student fees and actually has the highest dollar amount in ticket sales. The biggest difference is institutional support, both schools are double MSU, and payouts from the NCAA and/or TV deals. And MSU could easily double the NCAA media rights and conf distributions (also imagine what those schools will get from SDSU's run to the NC in basketball?). If MSU could get that same institutional support (just keep the same % even), and another $3-$4 million in NCAA/media payouts we'd narrow that gap by $13 million alone, bringing MSU to $39m. Or we increase institutional support by $5m instead of $9m and get a few extra from donors.

I don't think it's as out of reach as some might think.

What's crazy is, and Colter pointed this out, NAU has a budget of $25.39m, just about the same as MSU, but literally 71% of their revenue is institutional/government support, $18.25 million. It literally does not matter if they win games or if fans show up as 71% of their revenue is set.

[damnyoutuesday]

I wonder what's holding us back from playing a MWC team every year. Us or them? If we could even play one of them every other year it would help boost our profile in the league and among their fans.
[/quote]

Realistically if you're Utah State, Colorado State, or any other MWC, why would you want to play MSU for a money game? You'll get dunked on by all sports media if you lose. It's such a high risk-low reward situation. I'll be impressed if we see many more money games for us, NDSU, and SDSU from G5 conferences, since they will have nothing to gain and lots to lose if they play us. Schools like Northern Colorado will still get money games from the MWC, but I think only the PAC and Big 12 will pay to play us anymore

[Common Cat]

I hope it happens sooner than later. I’d echo what Celtic said. The FCS is dying. Time to fraternize with more similar schools.

[Common Cat]

I say both schools should drop down to Div 2.

I don’t know if you’re being serious. I assume you’re joking…