Power vs. Zone Running Schemes

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Common Cat
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Power vs. Zone Running Schemes

Post by Common Cat » Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:36 pm

With Ifanse on the move and a room full of speedy backs coupled with a new o line coach I began to think about the different schemes we could run. Because our line is more athletic and not so hulkish, it fits better with zone blocking especially outside or stretch concepts. If you like me were wondering some of the differences between power and zone here’s a decent summary https://www.ganggreennation.com/2021/10 ... ap-schemes


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Re: Power vs. Zone Running Schemes

Post by JoeCatsJoe » Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:43 pm

Common Cat wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:36 pm
With Ifanse on the move and a room full of speedy backs coupled with a new o line coach I began to think about the different schemes we could run. Because our line is more athletic and not so hulkish, it fits better with zone blocking especially outside or stretch concepts. If you like me were wondering some of the differences between power and zone here’s a decent summary https://www.ganggreennation.com/2021/10 ... ap-schemes
I’m curious to know what you all think about being a primarily outside zone team in a cold weather place. I thought watching vs William and Mary we had no problem pounding it with Ifanse when we needed to. But we obviously had issues against SDSU because we couldn’t get outside, and it didn’t really seem like we could go up the middle all that well. I’m very far from a coach who knows what they are talking about, so I’m curious to see what you guys think.



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Re: Power vs. Zone Running Schemes

Post by 91catAlum » Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:09 am

JoeCatsJoe wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:43 pm
Common Cat wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:36 pm
With Ifanse on the move and a room full of speedy backs coupled with a new o line coach I began to think about the different schemes we could run. Because our line is more athletic and not so hulkish, it fits better with zone blocking especially outside or stretch concepts. If you like me were wondering some of the differences between power and zone here’s a decent summary https://www.ganggreennation.com/2021/10 ... ap-schemes
I’m curious to know what you all think about being a primarily outside zone team in a cold weather place. I thought watching vs William and Mary we had no problem pounding it with Ifanse when we needed to. But we obviously had issues against SDSU because we couldn’t get outside, and it didn’t really seem like we could go up the middle all that well. I’m very far from a coach who knows what they are talking about, so I’m curious to see what you guys think.
I wonder about that too... but I also wonder how useful it is to use the SDSU game as a data point. They beat us and our running scheme by 21 in Brookings; and they beat ndsu's power run scheme by even more on a neutral field.
So either way, I don't think it would've mattered much. SDSU was a great team and got on a roll after a bit of a scare from Holy Cross IMO, and at the end of the year they were that much better than everybody else.

But in general I think you are probably correct that on a slick/icy track its harder to run outside zone.


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Re: Power vs. Zone Running Schemes

Post by lutecat » Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:29 am

I wonder how much what we saw in Brookings is maybe some backs being able to make the corner better than II. He runs straight really well.



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Re: Power vs. Zone Running Schemes

Post by JoeCatsJoe » Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:35 am

91catAlum wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:09 am
JoeCatsJoe wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:43 pm
Common Cat wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:36 pm
With Ifanse on the move and a room full of speedy backs coupled with a new o line coach I began to think about the different schemes we could run. Because our line is more athletic and not so hulkish, it fits better with zone blocking especially outside or stretch concepts. If you like me were wondering some of the differences between power and zone here’s a decent summary https://www.ganggreennation.com/2021/10 ... ap-schemes
I’m curious to know what you all think about being a primarily outside zone team in a cold weather place. I thought watching vs William and Mary we had no problem pounding it with Ifanse when we needed to. But we obviously had issues against SDSU because we couldn’t get outside, and it didn’t really seem like we could go up the middle all that well. I’m very far from a coach who knows what they are talking about, so I’m curious to see what you guys think.
I wonder about that too... but I also wonder how useful it is to use the SDSU game as a data point. They beat us and our running scheme by 21 in Brookings; and they beat ndsu's power run scheme by even more on a neutral field.
So either way, I don't think it would've mattered much. SDSU was a great team and got on a roll after a bit of a scare from Holy Cross IMO, and at the end of the year they were that much better than everybody else.

But in general I think you are probably correct that on a slick/icy track its harder to run outside zone.
If you told me that SDSU was just that good, and field conditions made only a very minor difference, I’d buy that. Again, we did ok against W&M in similar conditions, and pushed them around just fine. Maybe it’s just removing a tool from our toolbelt when it’s icy.



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Re: Power vs. Zone Running Schemes

Post by JoeCatsJoe » Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:36 am

lutecat wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:29 am
I wonder how much what we saw in Brookings is maybe some backs being able to make the corner better than II. He runs straight really well.
Tommy had a hard time making the corner too. And he is phenomenal at beating guys to the edge normally.



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Re: Power vs. Zone Running Schemes

Post by TomCat88 » Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:06 pm

JoeCatsJoe wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:36 am
lutecat wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:29 am
I wonder how much what we saw in Brookings is maybe some backs being able to make the corner better than II. He runs straight really well.
Tommy had a hard time making the corner too. And he is phenomenal at beating guys to the edge normally.
Most of the problem was SDSU. It was playing extraordinarily well the las half+ of the season. I’d be interested in seeing how the last 8-9 games of its season stacks up against some NDSU’s best seasons.

A lot of what ailed MSU that day was hot play calling by SDSU.

MSU had an edge on WM due to good footwear. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was a factor in Brookings.
Last edited by TomCat88 on Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Power vs. Zone Running Schemes

Post by VimSince03 » Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:10 pm

91catAlum wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:09 am
JoeCatsJoe wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:43 pm
Common Cat wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:36 pm
With Ifanse on the move and a room full of speedy backs coupled with a new o line coach I began to think about the different schemes we could run. Because our line is more athletic and not so hulkish, it fits better with zone blocking especially outside or stretch concepts. If you like me were wondering some of the differences between power and zone here’s a decent summary https://www.ganggreennation.com/2021/10 ... ap-schemes
I’m curious to know what you all think about being a primarily outside zone team in a cold weather place. I thought watching vs William and Mary we had no problem pounding it with Ifanse when we needed to. But we obviously had issues against SDSU because we couldn’t get outside, and it didn’t really seem like we could go up the middle all that well. I’m very far from a coach who knows what they are talking about, so I’m curious to see what you guys think.
I wonder about that too... but I also wonder how useful it is to use the SDSU game as a data point. They beat us and our running scheme by 21 in Brookings; and they beat ndsu's power run scheme by even more on a neutral field.
So either way, I don't think it would've mattered much. SDSU was a great team and got on a roll after a bit of a scare from Holy Cross IMO, and at the end of the year they were that much better than everybody else.

But in general I think you are probably correct that on a slick/icy track its harder to run outside zone.
Would also like to point out that our two QB scheme on that first drive against SDSU was obviously the core game plan and we drove the ball right down the field for 6. Would it have mattered since our defense was obviously outmatched? Maybe not but it certainly would have been a more back and forth affair.


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Re: Power vs. Zone Running Schemes

Post by HelenaCat95 » Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:26 pm

Just going off memory of watching the game (I have not rewatched it).....but at the time I felt like SDSU was playing our OZ scheme well. They were setting the edge and filling in the cutback gaps. Our Oline was having a tough time getting to the 2nd level, because their Dline was doing a very good job of not letting them.
They schemed the Cats up well, and did a great job of executing - hats off to them.



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Re: Power vs. Zone Running Schemes

Post by JoeCatsJoe » Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:00 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:06 pm
JoeCatsJoe wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:36 am
lutecat wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:29 am
I wonder how much what we saw in Brookings is maybe some backs being able to make the corner better than II. He runs straight really well.
Tommy had a hard time making the corner too. And he is phenomenal at beating guys to the edge normally.
Most of the problem was SDSU. It was playing extraordinary well the las half+ of the season. I’d be interested in seeing how the last 8-9 games of its season stacks up against some NDSU’s best seasons.

A lot of what ailed MSU that day was hot play calling by SDSU.

MSU had an edge on WM due to good footwear. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was a factor in Brookings.
So how can we have appropriate footwear in one cold weather game, but not in the next game the very next week? Seems weird to me.



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Re: Power vs. Zone Running Schemes

Post by TomCat88 » Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:40 pm

JoeCatsJoe wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:00 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:06 pm
JoeCatsJoe wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:36 am
lutecat wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:29 am
I wonder how much what we saw in Brookings is maybe some backs being able to make the corner better than II. He runs straight really well.
Tommy had a hard time making the corner too. And he is phenomenal at beating guys to the edge normally.
Most of the problem was SDSU. It was playing extraordinary well the las half+ of the season. I’d be interested in seeing how the last 8-9 games of its season stacks up against some NDSU’s best seasons.

A lot of what ailed MSU that day was hot play calling by SDSU.

MSU had an edge on WM due to good footwear. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was a factor in Brookings.
So how can we have appropriate footwear in one cold weather game, but not in the next game the very next week? Seems weird to me.
The turf in Bozeman was more of a frozen glaze, while the turf in Brookings was granulated ice embedded into the surface.


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Re: Power vs. Zone Running Schemes

Post by JoeCatsJoe » Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:40 pm

VimSince03 wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:10 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:09 am
JoeCatsJoe wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:43 pm
Common Cat wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:36 pm
With Ifanse on the move and a room full of speedy backs coupled with a new o line coach I began to think about the different schemes we could run. Because our line is more athletic and not so hulkish, it fits better with zone blocking especially outside or stretch concepts. If you like me were wondering some of the differences between power and zone here’s a decent summary https://www.ganggreennation.com/2021/10 ... ap-schemes
I’m curious to know what you all think about being a primarily outside zone team in a cold weather place. I thought watching vs William and Mary we had no problem pounding it with Ifanse when we needed to. But we obviously had issues against SDSU because we couldn’t get outside, and it didn’t really seem like we could go up the middle all that well. I’m very far from a coach who knows what they are talking about, so I’m curious to see what you guys think.
I wonder about that too... but I also wonder how useful it is to use the SDSU game as a data point. They beat us and our running scheme by 21 in Brookings; and they beat ndsu's power run scheme by even more on a neutral field.
So either way, I don't think it would've mattered much. SDSU was a great team and got on a roll after a bit of a scare from Holy Cross IMO, and at the end of the year they were that much better than everybody else.

But in general I think you are probably correct that on a slick/icy track its harder to run outside zone.
Would also like to point out that our two QB scheme on that first drive against SDSU was obviously the core game plan and we drove the ball right down the field for 6. Would it have mattered since our defense was obviously outmatched? Maybe not but it certainly would have been a more back and forth affair.
That’s a great point. That was obviously something we were gonna lean on, and then had to change the entire gameplan up. Not easy to make that adjustment on the fly, especially against a great team. As we saw in last year’s NC game 😐



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Re: Power vs. Zone Running Schemes

Post by VimSince03 » Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:54 pm

JoeCatsJoe wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:40 pm
VimSince03 wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:10 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:09 am
JoeCatsJoe wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:43 pm
Common Cat wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:36 pm
With Ifanse on the move and a room full of speedy backs coupled with a new o line coach I began to think about the different schemes we could run. Because our line is more athletic and not so hulkish, it fits better with zone blocking especially outside or stretch concepts. If you like me were wondering some of the differences between power and zone here’s a decent summary https://www.ganggreennation.com/2021/10 ... ap-schemes
I’m curious to know what you all think about being a primarily outside zone team in a cold weather place. I thought watching vs William and Mary we had no problem pounding it with Ifanse when we needed to. But we obviously had issues against SDSU because we couldn’t get outside, and it didn’t really seem like we could go up the middle all that well. I’m very far from a coach who knows what they are talking about, so I’m curious to see what you guys think.
I wonder about that too... but I also wonder how useful it is to use the SDSU game as a data point. They beat us and our running scheme by 21 in Brookings; and they beat ndsu's power run scheme by even more on a neutral field.
So either way, I don't think it would've mattered much. SDSU was a great team and got on a roll after a bit of a scare from Holy Cross IMO, and at the end of the year they were that much better than everybody else.

But in general I think you are probably correct that on a slick/icy track its harder to run outside zone.
Would also like to point out that our two QB scheme on that first drive against SDSU was obviously the core game plan and we drove the ball right down the field for 6. Would it have mattered since our defense was obviously outmatched? Maybe not but it certainly would have been a more back and forth affair.
That’s a great point. That was obviously something we were gonna lean on, and then had to change the entire gameplan up. Not easy to make that adjustment on the fly, especially against a great team. As we saw in last year’s NC game 😐
Trust me the gameplan wasn't to have Tommy throw the ball that many times. Also can't say this enough but credit needs to go to SDSU here for the most part. They were so incredibly disciplined against our various run schemes and formations that gave opponents fits all year. They simply didn't miss.


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Re: Power vs. Zone Running Schemes

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:42 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:40 pm
JoeCatsJoe wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:00 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:06 pm
JoeCatsJoe wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:36 am
lutecat wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:29 am
I wonder how much what we saw in Brookings is maybe some backs being able to make the corner better than II. He runs straight really well.
Tommy had a hard time making the corner too. And he is phenomenal at beating guys to the edge normally.
Most of the problem was SDSU. It was playing extraordinary well the las half+ of the season. I’d be interested in seeing how the last 8-9 games of its season stacks up against some NDSU’s best seasons.

A lot of what ailed MSU that day was hot play calling by SDSU.

MSU had an edge on WM due to good footwear. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was a factor in Brookings.
So how can we have appropriate footwear in one cold weather game, but not in the next game the very next week? Seems weird to me.
The turf in Bozeman was more of a frozen glaze, while the turf in Brookings was granulated ice embedded into the surface.
Excellent description of the field surface. MSU’s snow started warm and froze, as per Bozeman.
SDSU was like 100° below zero all week. Tommy was throwing up ice crystals like a figure skater when he tried to maneuver. The Jacks were the best team this year. Congratulations to them and Coach Stig.



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