The Bobcat Nation

I see that Nick only scored 6 points the other night after his big game against Weber State. Is he deserving of the minutes he is getting?

YES

WAYLON LIVES (sorry, off topic)

CatGrad00 wrote:I see that Nick only scored 6 points the other night after his big game against Weber State. Is he deserving of the minutes he is getting?

NO!

Do we have a better kid to play small forward... no. But we could go big and start Moss, Beye and either Morris, Pratt or Durr or go small and start Durham, Jeff and Edmonds. Either way, Nick does not deserve to start and is only there because he doesnt have anyone to take his place.

Ponycat wrote:YES

Why? Does Nick deserve to start, or is he the only option we have?

Cat Pride wrote:

Ponycat wrote:YES

Why? Does Nick deserve to start, or is he the only option we have?

Becuase Nick does not hurt us in any situation. You have to guard him everywhere on the court. His guy can never be the one to double team someone else. He doesn't turn the ball over. He plays solid defense, he sets solid screens everytime. He doesn't force shots, but has the ability to take a game over at anytime. He can guard any position except maybe a tall center so switches on defense don't hurt us. He crashes the board every time and runs the floor. He allows his teamates an easier time and does everything well even though those things might not get mentioned in the box score. The only other player that comes close to doing these things is Jefferson.

I watched a kid the other night who only scored 5 points in a AA game but I thought he had the best game of any player on his team. He crashed the boards everytime, kept balls alive even though he didn't get credited with the rebound, although I think he led the team in rebounds. Didn't take any bad shots and set solid screens, played great defense on three different positions, but the blurb before the box score only mentioned the leading scorers.

There is more to the game than scoring. If you watch the intangables Nick in a word is SOLID.

Ponycat wrote:

Cat Pride wrote:

Ponycat wrote:YES

Why? Does Nick deserve to start, or is he the only option we have?

There is more to the game than scoring. If you watch the intangables Nick in a word is SOLID.

To my untrained eye it looks like he stands around a lot.

CelticCat wrote:

Ponycat wrote:

Cat Pride wrote:

Ponycat wrote:YES

Why? Does Nick deserve to start, or is he the only option we have?

There is more to the game than scoring. If you watch the intangables Nick in a word is SOLID.

To my untrained eye it looks like he stands around a lot.

are you serious or is the mean your joking

Cat Pride wrote:

CatGrad00 wrote:I see that Nick only scored 6 points the other night after his big game against Weber State. Is he deserving of the minutes he is getting?

NO!

Do we have a better kid to play small forward... no. But we could go big and start Moss, Beye and either Morris, Pratt or Durr or go small and start Durham, Jeff and Edmonds. Either way, Nick does not deserve to start and is only there because he doesnt have anyone to take his place.

First of all, I am getting sick of your negativity and pessimism Cat Pride. If you have so much pride in the cats, howsabout you support them man. You make Dissly sound like hes a middle schooler running around out there, and bash the team any chance you get. Why?

Second, there is no way in hell that Durham starts Morris and Beye at the same time. I don't think he has EVER started two centers at the same time. I was high on Pratt, but he has proven he doesn't deserve to start. His ball-handling skills are pretty lacking, although he is a good shot-blocker. Durr doesn't have Dissly's speed OR quickness, although he is a good defender, and the master of the charge. He isn't as pure from three either.

Third, he gives us some size out there, one thing Edmonds does not. Granted Derrick can sky, but that is of no help when a 6'4" guard spots up for a quick three, or drives the lane and pulls up for a jumper. When we have Durham, Jefferson, and Edmonds out there, we are vulnerable to the taller guards and small forwards.

Finally, Dissly is the one that usually gets numbers in every good category every game. Rebounds, blocks, assists, points, and steals. That and he doesn't foul a whole lot.

Well I agree with Pony on this. Nick doesn't always score a lot but when you look from a basketball stand point he does a lot of the things that don't show up in the box scores. You don't have to be a a 15-20 point scorer a night to be productive. My favorite example of this is Danny Sprinkle. I know that everyone on this board will rip me apart for saying this but he was the most 1 dimensional player I ever played with in High School or college. Danny didn't play a lick of defense (I gaurentee he never gaurded the teams best perimeter player), didn't have assists, didn't rebound, did a decent job of setting screens when he wanted to, and was average on putting the ball on the floor and scoring. BUT he was an unbelievable shooter, hence we all have this feeling that he was all world. But no one ever criticised him for not being a complete player......

Another thing that we have said is to sit Nick and go with a "BIG" lineup. Come on guys we play with a power forward who is 6'6". Putting Durr, who is truely a 3 in would keep the lineup the same and would realistically be the only way we could compete. remember Carson is only 6'5" or 6'6" at best. Pratt isn't going to play no mattter what. And if we thought about puttin Moss at the perimeter, don't know how he would defend anyone and that takes away anyway 3 point threat and and also takes our best post player out of the paint.

So basically I think we all need to get on Nick to be more overall aggresive. he isn't going to be the scorer that everyone thinks he is. But he can be the energetic rebounding, assist, steals leader of the team. He has the capability to go off but most likely won't consistently do that.

AZCAT21 wrote:Well I agree with Pony on this. Nick doesn't always score a lot but when you look from a basketball stand point he does a lot of the things that don't show up in the box scores. You don't have to be a a 15-20 point scorer a night to be productive. My favorite example of this is Danny Sprinkle. I know that everyone on this board will rip me apart for saying this but he was the most 1 dimensional player I ever played with in High School or college. Danny didn't play a lick of defense (I gaurentee he never gaurded the teams best perimeter player), didn't have assists, didn't rebound, did a decent job of setting screens when he wanted to, and was average on putting the ball on the floor and scoring. BUT he was an unbelievable shooter, hence we all have this feeling that he was all world. But no one ever criticised him for not being a complete player......

Another thing that we have said is to sit Nick and go with a "BIG" lineup. Come on guys we play with a power forward who is 6'6". Putting Durr, who is truely a 3 in would keep the lineup the same and would realistically be the only way we could compete. remember Carson is only 6'5" or 6'6" at best. Pratt isn't going to play no mattter what. And if we thought about puttin Moss at the perimeter, don't know how he would defend anyone and that takes away anyway 3 point threat and and also takes our best post player out of the paint.

So basically I think we all need to get on Nick to be more overall aggresive. he isn't going to be the scorer that everyone thinks he is. But he can be the energetic rebounding, assist, steals leader of the team. He has the capability to go off but most likely won't consistently do that.

I think the biggest criticism of Dissly is that you never know what you're going to get. Sometimes he looks like our best scorer/passer/defender, where as other times he looks like he's lost on the court. I'm not sure if it's a lack of desire/too many distractions/confidence/or something else, but Nick has been VERY inconsistant this year.

BUT in response to the origional question, I do think he should start, because I really like or instant offense in Derrick Edmonds coming off the bench.

AZCAT21 wrote:So basically I think we all need to get on Nick to be more overall aggresive. he isn't going to be the scorer that everyone thinks he is. But he can be the energetic rebounding, assist, steals leader of the team. He has the capability to go off but most likely won't consistently do that.

wbtfg wrote:I think the biggest criticism of Dissly is that you never know what you're going to get. Sometimes he looks like our best scorer/passer/defender, where as other times he looks like he's lost on the court. I'm not sure if it's a lack of desire/too many distractions/confidence/or something else, but Nick has been VERY inconsistant this year.

These are also my complaints about Dissly.

grizzh8r wrote:First of all, I am getting sick of your negativity and pessimism Cat Pride. If you have so much pride in the cats, howsabout you support them man. You make Dissly sound like hes a middle schooler running around out there, and bash the team any chance you get. Why?

My complaint about the team is also the inconsistency, the underacheiving, etc. Preseason this team was being compared to the '96 team by none other than Mick Durham himself.

Just because I am not in favor of the direction this team is headed, does not mean I support the Cats any less than you do. I drove over from Billings to see the MSU-Carroll game and the ISU game. I will be at Cat-Griz on Saturday, and will be damn sure I make EWU (to see that Stuckey mostly) and the Sac St. game. I go and I cheer loud, but just because I am not happy with the direction this program is headed does not for one second mean that I am against this program. I will continue to root for the Cats and continue to give my hard earned money in hopes that this can get turned around someday soon.

What direction are we headed. Looking at next year everyone has talked about the 3 great recruits that we landed and the ones coming on board next year. This year we struggled early but have won 7 out of the last 8. We still are not playing our best but appear to have turned it around a little winning close games we needed too and defending home turf in conference. If they keep improving it can still be a solid season and we obviously still have a shot at the conference and tourney titles.

wbtfg wrote:

AZCAT21 wrote:.

I think the biggest criticism of Dissly is that you never know what you're going to get.

Exactly.......this is the problem....no consistency.....I am sure the coaches are concerned about this too. Nothing to count on each and every night.

I wanna' thank Ponycat for expressing ALL of the positive things that MANY of us have noticed about Dissly's play over the past two seasons. I haven't found the time to compose my thoughts, but now that Pony has described Dissly's play so accurately, I don't have to! Ponycat is RIGHT ON in his assessment of Nick, and AZCat's follow-up was very insightful (and inciting!).

Dissly does SO many good things that don't show up in a typical boxscore. Diss does sometimes look like he's standing around but the only time he is "standing around" is when the team's set offense requires him to "stay out of the way" so as to not have a crowd of 'Cats in a certain area on the floor.

(p.s. Waylon kicks ayse, as does all Americana music.)

CatGrad00 wrote:

wbtfg wrote:

AZCAT21 wrote:.

I think the biggest criticism of Dissly is that you never know what you're going to get.

Exactly.......this is the problem....no consistency.....I am sure the coaches are concerned about this too. Nothing to count on each and every night.

mind if i ask who has been consistent this year? what player on this team has played well every game? no one.

jaron jefferson has yet to have a bad game, in my opinion

AZCAT21 wrote:jaron jefferson has yet to have a bad game, in my opinion

well, he hasn't had many games where he didnt score well. only once this season i think he missed double digits. but like what was said earlier, sometimes it's the stuff we dont see in the stats. jarons judgement is questionable. i love his confidence and seeing him on the floor at the end of the game. but i think it's naive to say that he hasn't had some poor games. one thing that stands out is he's led the team in turnovers(5) three different times! he's had a "bad game" a time or two imo.

whitetrashgriz wrote:

AZCAT21 wrote:jaron jefferson has yet to have a bad game, in my opinion

well, he hasn't had many games where he didnt score well. only once this season i think he missed double digits. but like what was said earlier, sometimes it's the stuff we dont see in the stats. jarons judgement is questionable. i love his confidence and seeing him on the floor at the end of the game. but i think it's naive to say that he hasn't had some poor games. one thing that stands out is he's led the team in turnovers(5) three different times! he's had a "bad game" a time or two imo.

Michael Jordan has had bad game as well....who hasn't had a bad game or two?

I think Jaron has been VERY steady for us.

I'd say wait on Nick. It seems to me that the Montana kids on the team always have a big game when the Griz come to town. Remember Casey's 18 points against the Griz last year? Just wait...he might repeat that Weber performance soon. And I don't think JaRon has had a bad game yet. I don't know.