Do you want Durham fired?

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:55 pm

How many people think that Mick should be fired this season, or should have been fired a long time ago? No need to explain why, I am just trying to get a good idea of numbers.

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:56 pm

For the record, I think all of you know that I am a Durham supporter and would love to see him coaching at MSU until he decides to retire from the profession.

Ponycat · Post by **Ponycat** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:59 pm

Yes - 2 or probably 3 years ago.

Helcat72 · Post by **Helcat72** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:05 pm

I just worry about who we would get to replace him...I think he's the best we can afford...and he is a great guy...I'm sort of getting used to following Football as a passion and Basketball as sort of an interim sport where I don't really get too exited one way or another. I guess I've come to expect mediocrity!

Post by **SonomaCat** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:17 pm

Maybe not "fired," but perhaps "elevated" to an advisory role in the athletic department.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:23 pm

Mick is a nice guy, but he is a mediocre coach at best. His overall career record at MSU...231-198 that is 0.538 winning percentage. Over 16 years, that is the definition of average. People say, "well he is the winningest coach in Big Sky history." That is solely because he has stayed the longest. If anyone thinks some of the legends that coached in Missoula would have stayed 16 years wouldnt have won as many games as Mick is smoking the good stuff.

In 16 years he has taken the Cats to the dance one time. He's had multiple teams with the ability to go, but Mick hasnt gotten them over the hump. Mick runs zero offense... stand around, maybe send a cutter through the key, isolation, one-on-one stuff, hoist up a 3-pointer. The Cats are real tough to prepare for. Lets not even get into his substitution madness.

Micks a nice guy... runs a clean program... I just dont want him coaching here anymore. This is not because of the slow start this year either. It stems way back to not elevating the program after '96 when he had TWO franchise, program turnaround, building block freshmen to work with and Mick pissed that opportunity away. What should have been the start of a legacy turned into mild success (at best) in the Big Sky tourney.

Well, I am tired of it. Thanks for the years Mick, we appreciate it, we love you, you will go down as one of the all time greats... its just time for everyone to move on. Hell, the Griz fired their head coach for taking the Griz to the tourney after having beaten the Cats in Bozeman. I think we can part ways with Mick after 16 years of 0.538 winning percentage and one punched dance ticket.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:26 pm

What I would like to hear is the arguement ast to WHY Mick should stay on as coach.

Please, somebody give me more than Mick is a nice guy. I'm a nice guy... really, ask my wife and friend... but I'd get fired tomorrow if I slacked off too much more on Bobcat Nation than I already do.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:26 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:Maybe not "fired," but perhaps "elevated" to an advisory role in the athletic department.

You beat me to it Bay Area Cat. I dont' like the word fired either as Durham has put a lot of years in for the Cats and I respect that. I said last year I was going to give him 2 more years before I even bring up him being let go. However, the start of this season is really starting to bring me down

Lets see how this season turns out I guess. I have very HIGH expectations for basketball and any other sport where they where the Blue and Gold. I do not want to be a mediocre team that puts 1-2 good teams together every 15 years etc. We could have done a lot worse than Durham during that time, but I see it as we almost need a changing of the guard (new blood) to revitalize the program etc. I do respect everything Durham has done for Bobcat athletics and the guy is a class act in every way.

Lets see how this season goes though I guess. It is just very frustrating so far this year.

CelticCat · Post by **CelticCat** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:01 pm

The sucess from last season quelled my creeping suspicion that Mick needs to go. The lackluster beginning to this one brought that suspicion right back.

I think we need some new blood in our basketball program. I would hate to fire Mick though.

PapaG · Post by **PapaG** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:08 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:Maybe not "fired," but perhaps "elevated" to an advisory role in the athletic department.

Yep, that is my position as well and has been for about four years running.

AZCAT21 · Post by **AZCAT21** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:56 pm

Once again I would hate that Durham get fired because he has been a very "nice guy" within the community. BUT he hasn't produced above what our expectations should be. Look at the records they are not that good other than 2-3 years. Guarentee that if he were the football coach he would have been gone about 8 years ago AT LEAST. Its just that we don't demand as much in basketball. Which is not right at all, we should be more like Missoula which is a little more cutt throat and demands more in all their programs and look what happens. We might not find the best guy the first time around but it honestly can't get any worse. Especially if we stay at around 500 with the new coach. At least we would have a taste of some new blood.....I like the thought of him being in the Athletic department but the guy is as personable as a rock, imo...

GOKATS · Post by **GOKATS** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:10 pm

I'm a huge fan and friend of Mick. I don't think this is the right time of the season to be discussing this, but here's some food for thought. No coach or team has really dominated the BSC the last 10 years.

1995-96- MSU
1996-97- NAU
1997-98- NAU
1998-99- WSU
1999-00- UM
2000-01- Northridge*
01-02- MSU
02-03- WSU
03-04- EWU
04-05- PSU

My point is that the BSC is D-I and the coaches have to recruit and try to put a team together that can compete against every other D-I program in the nation. It's a bit different than football in this respect.

Sure, it's looking a little shakey right now, but let them get thru finals, play some BB & see how the season shakes out. Makes absolutely no sense to be dissing the coach at this point in the season.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:28 pm

Just for future reference ... when is the ideal time to dis a coach?

GOKATS · Post by **GOKATS** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:56 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:Just for future reference ... when is the ideal time to dis a coach?

At the end of the season. JMHO.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:58 pm

The only problem with that is that instead of actually caring about basketball by then, everybody has lost interest and moved on to football again. The window of interest in basketball is shrinking rapidly ... which in itself is not a good sign.

BozeMan · Post by **BozeMan** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:12 pm

No coach or team has really dominated the BSC the last 10 years.

This is true, but has any coach in the BSC been with one team for a substantial time in this period? GOOD coaches in the BSC don't stay around very long. After a few good years, they move on to bigger and better jobs. This is why Mick has been at MSU for an eternity. He is a mediocre coach who doesn't do good enough to move up, but doesn't do bad enough to get fired.

The answer to this question is simple. If you want to continue to have a mediocre program, then let Mick stay. If you want to have a successful program, then maybe we need a change.

GOKATS · Post by **GOKATS** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:36 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:The only problem with that is that instead of actually caring about basketball by then, everybody has lost interest and moved on to football again. The window of interest in basketball is shrinking rapidly ... which in itself is not a good sign.

It simply serves no purpose at this point in the season, nothing is going to change coaching or player wise, except to maybe effect those who may check out BN (coaches and players I'm behind you).

Have to agree with you on the interest in BB is shrinking, but we're not an isolated incident. BB used to be the biggest program at UM, but now their WBB outdraws the MBB. I still love BB and will support it all the way.

I think there's ample time between March Madness and spring ball to discuss the BB program. JMHO.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:43 pm

Well, no way in hell Mick is going to get fired during the middle of the season. In fact, I'm still not so sure there is any way Mick is going to get fired regardless of how he does coaching-wise. In my mind, the fact that he hasn't been let go yet speaks volumes about what the higher-ups at MSU think about Mick.

Personally, I just plum don't understand it. He doesn't win games. He doesn't raise money. He doesn't put fans in the seats. What the hell else is there?!!! He has a losing record against Division I teams, and he has a terrible losing record against the griz. Sure, he's not an a$$hole like Pat Kennedy was at UM, but otherwise what's the difference? I'm sorry, but being a nice guy doesn't cut it at the Division I coaching level, even at Montana State. We have all the tools to be a powerful program in the Big Sky, but we are the definition of "middle of the pack" in our conference, without any signs of getting better. Nice guys are great, but we need somebody who coaches with some passion and who wants desperately to win basketball games. Mick should have been replaced at least 5 years ago.

BobCatFan · Post by **BobCatFan** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:00 pm

GOKATS wrote: My point is that the BSC is D-I and the coaches have to recruit and try to put a team together that can compete against every other D-I program in the nation. It's a bit different than football in this respect.
n.

I know of a small college in the Washington that was and is national ranked. Even the star of the team has roots in Glendive. (Morrison's dad was the coach at DCC) If Gonzaga can build a national competitive program, why can't msu?

BobCatFan · Post by **BobCatFan** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:03 pm

BozoneCat wrote: Nice guys are great, but we need somebody who coaches with some passion and who wants desperately to win basketball games. Mick should have been replaced at least 5 years ago.

Lets find a nice guy who can coach! Maybe that will keep everyone happy.